Killing Canadians 'best way': student
- Thread starter alfie
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This man is a terrorist who is inciting the act of murder on Canadian soldiers. He is also preaching anti semitism. He should be imprisoned until fully investigated for his crimes.
He also forgets that many Canadian soldiers are muslim so he is also threatening people of his own faith.
My 2 cents!
He also forgets that many Canadian soldiers are muslim so he is also threatening people of his own faith.
My 2 cents!
C
CrazyCanuck
Guest
Here's the article with highlights:
TORONTO - A Toronto-area man has been posting messages on the Internet supporting attacks against Canadian soldiers on Canadian soil, drawing the attention of RCMP national security investigators.
Police have advised the Bangladeshi-Canadian that he is under investigation for incitement and facilitating terrorism after he repeatedly called the killing of Canadian troops in Canada "legitimate" and "well deserved."
No charges have been laid, but counterterrorism officers are apparently taking it seriously, and the case has set off a debate inside government over where to draw the line between free expression and incitement.
"The promotion of hate and violence has no place in Canadian society, and it is an offence under the Criminal Code," Stockwell Day, the Minister of Public Safety, responded when shown a sample of the postings. "Our government carefully balances the right to freedom of expression with our duty to protect Canadians from harm."
Alarm bells about the online writings went off last September after German authorities arrested three Islamic militants accused of planning to bomb the Ramstein Air Base and Frankfurt International Airport.
That same day, Salman Hossain posted several messages about the plot on the comment board of a Toronto-based Internet site where he is a frequent contributor.
Although Mr. Hossain claimed in one of his communications with the National Post that he made the comments in a private online chat room, the messages can easily be viewed by anyone using a simple Google search.
"I hope the German brothers were gonna blow up US-German bases in their country. We should do that here in Canada as well. Kill as many western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters," he wrote.
"Any and all Western soldiers getting prepared to enter Muslim nations like Afghanistan or Iraq should be legitimate targets by any and all Islamic militants either in the attacked nations or in the western nations --if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/ American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it," he added.
"Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed. Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."
In addition, he singles out Jews, writing: "When do I get to shoot a few Jews down for attempting to blow up dozens of mosques in America right after 9-11 why f---ing target the Americans when the Jews are better?"
The author of the messages is a Mississauga university student in his mid-twenties who claims to know the infamous Khadr family and several of the men arrested in Toronto in June, 2006, on terrorism conspiracy charges. He confirmed to the National Post that he was the author of the postings but later declined to comment further on the advice of his lawyer. While he writes that he approves of attacking Canadian troops, he also says he would not do so himself.
Despite being visited by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP and told he was under investigation, Mr. Hossain has continued to post messages approving of attacks on Canadian troops.
Saying anti-war protests "will do sh$$," he describes a "mass casualty" attack on the home-front as "a well considered option" and "the best way to compel western soldiers to get out of Afghanistan/Iraq."
Such an attack "would be fantastic and would get the job done," he writes. "If someone gets the bright idea of committing such a wonderful act, it's NOT my responsibility in any way, shape or form."
He wrote, "I enjoy watching the blood flow from the western troops," and during Defence Minister Peter Mac-Kay's Christmas week visit to Kandahar, he wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our Mackay motherf---er."
In other postings, he wishes "a merry 9-11, and I wish y'all many more merry 9-11s"; says "the Jews are literally the most treacherous nation on the face of the Earth"; says "I hate the Jews"; and claims "the filthy Jews carried out 9-11."
He rails at police, saying "you can't charge me for possessing a thought" and writes that he "honestly got a kick outta pissing off the RCMP HAHAHA i was laughing my ass off for provoking the RCMP."
The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet.
"So what we are in the presence of is a ranter, informed by the usual conspiratorial views that are unfortunately part and parcel of extremist Islamist thought -- especially the core anti-Semitic notion of a giant Jewish conspiracy," said Professor Wesley Wark, a Canadian security expert.
But he said while the language is violent and crude, it is probably harmless venting. "On the other hand, there is always a worry that such speech could tip over into action by this person or others of like mind."
The RCMP would not comment on the probe, saying sensitive matters of national security were involved, but spokeswoman Corporal Cathy McCrory said the government was "committed to ensuring the safety and security of citizens and we will not tolerate those that seek to harm Canadians."
Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA) does not specifically outlaw incitement of terrorism, although such a measure has been discussed by MPs.
Prof. Work, visiting research professor at the University of Ottawa School of Public and International Affair, said a debate on the topic is needed.
"It's high time we had a proper public airing of the pros and cons of further reforms to the ATA, including an incitement clause, and a public airing of the nature of legal powers needed to ensure prompt and effective monitoring of potentially harmful Internet traffic."
A few days after Mr. Hossain wrote that "we should do" a Ramstein-type plot in Canada, the RCMP contacted him. He spoke to them on Sept. 18 at his lawyer's office.
He later posted messages saying he was under police investigation, but he said that "cheerleading" for Muslim insurgents in Afghanistan "is every Muslim's right."
Although he did not tone down his rhetoric, he did make one change: His comments are now sometimes followed by a disclaimer that says he is not inciting violence but merely "suggesting" scenarios and he is not responsible if they actually happen.
"I don't see how the right to free speech includes deliberate
incitement to violence," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University professor and a leading international expert on terrorism, after reading the postings.
"One would think that [Canadian soldiers] are owed more than, 'Well, I don't think we can secure a conviction.' How demoralizing is it for soldiers to find out that people are openly advocating terrorism against them and yet the government who they serve won't do anything about it because it's either too much trouble or there's no guarantee they're going to succeed?"
Prof. Hoffman said the postings remind him of the material that incited Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. "Reading those, I was wondering, is there any Western country that would tolerate people posting things talking about staging attacks like this?"
He said that while there was no guarantee a criminal case would succeed, prosecutors might want to go ahead anyway, if only to send a message that "you can't openly advocate the murder of Canadian soldiers.
Four months after he met RCMP officers at his lawyer's office, the Mississauga man continues to make provocative postings. On Jan. 17, he wrote that, "If the Taliban had the capability to attack our troops in our own soil, which I personally hope they do in the future, then these pussies will be dead scared of sending any more troops in2 Afghanistan."
sbell@nationalpost.com
---
BACK STORY
An Internet posting from Oct. 29, 2007, in which Salman Hossain imagines, presumably tongue-in-cheek, how the RCMP would describe him:
WANTED!!! DEAD OR ALIVE - Considered armed and/or dangerous may be considering taking a trip to Afghanistan on G-Haad training. If not, possibly wired with explosives threatening to blow up Parliament Hill, and threatening attacks on NATO-National Army bases around the nation or perhaps overseas. He is wanted in connection with the attacks that have killed 70+ troops so far. Please hand him over to relevant authorities otherwise he may blow himself up in your face. If you do see him with perhaps heavy clothing -- PLEASE call your local bomb disposal unit and the SWAT team along with the National Army. Potential future Bin Laden!!! - Height: 5'5" - Weight: 135 lbs - Tastes: Enjoys prayer, perfume and/or women. - Dislikes: Jews, Terrorists, Apes, Pigs (refrains from eating), Mossad, Zionists, Bankers, Moneylenders, anything Israeli in nature, Black op Merceneries [Sic], Media-men, Jewish supremacists, anything Kosher, Synagogues, rabbis and other holy crooks pretending to be Saviours from God, and of course last but not least the F---ING TALMUD. - Ambition:Willing to martyr himself in kamekaze [Sic] attack. - Any physical peculiarities: Has tattoos on his arm claiming "God is Great" in Arabic. - Under investigation for: 1. Inciting hate speech 2. Uttering death threats 3. Facilitating terrorism.
Close
Reader Discussion
.... I could have highlighted the whole thing...
TORONTO - A Toronto-area man has been posting messages on the Internet supporting attacks against Canadian soldiers on Canadian soil, drawing the attention of RCMP national security investigators.
Police have advised the Bangladeshi-Canadian that he is under investigation for incitement and facilitating terrorism after he repeatedly called the killing of Canadian troops in Canada "legitimate" and "well deserved."
No charges have been laid, but counterterrorism officers are apparently taking it seriously, and the case has set off a debate inside government over where to draw the line between free expression and incitement.
"The promotion of hate and violence has no place in Canadian society, and it is an offence under the Criminal Code," Stockwell Day, the Minister of Public Safety, responded when shown a sample of the postings. "Our government carefully balances the right to freedom of expression with our duty to protect Canadians from harm."
Alarm bells about the online writings went off last September after German authorities arrested three Islamic militants accused of planning to bomb the Ramstein Air Base and Frankfurt International Airport.
That same day, Salman Hossain posted several messages about the plot on the comment board of a Toronto-based Internet site where he is a frequent contributor.
Although Mr. Hossain claimed in one of his communications with the National Post that he made the comments in a private online chat room, the messages can easily be viewed by anyone using a simple Google search.
"I hope the German brothers were gonna blow up US-German bases in their country. We should do that here in Canada as well. Kill as many western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters," he wrote.
"Any and all Western soldiers getting prepared to enter Muslim nations like Afghanistan or Iraq should be legitimate targets by any and all Islamic militants either in the attacked nations or in the western nations --if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/ American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it," he added.
"Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed. Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."
In addition, he singles out Jews, writing: "When do I get to shoot a few Jews down for attempting to blow up dozens of mosques in America right after 9-11 why f---ing target the Americans when the Jews are better?"
The author of the messages is a Mississauga university student in his mid-twenties who claims to know the infamous Khadr family and several of the men arrested in Toronto in June, 2006, on terrorism conspiracy charges. He confirmed to the National Post that he was the author of the postings but later declined to comment further on the advice of his lawyer. While he writes that he approves of attacking Canadian troops, he also says he would not do so himself.
Despite being visited by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP and told he was under investigation, Mr. Hossain has continued to post messages approving of attacks on Canadian troops.
Saying anti-war protests "will do sh$$," he describes a "mass casualty" attack on the home-front as "a well considered option" and "the best way to compel western soldiers to get out of Afghanistan/Iraq."
Such an attack "would be fantastic and would get the job done," he writes. "If someone gets the bright idea of committing such a wonderful act, it's NOT my responsibility in any way, shape or form."
He wrote, "I enjoy watching the blood flow from the western troops," and during Defence Minister Peter Mac-Kay's Christmas week visit to Kandahar, he wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our Mackay motherf---er."
In other postings, he wishes "a merry 9-11, and I wish y'all many more merry 9-11s"; says "the Jews are literally the most treacherous nation on the face of the Earth"; says "I hate the Jews"; and claims "the filthy Jews carried out 9-11."
He rails at police, saying "you can't charge me for possessing a thought" and writes that he "honestly got a kick outta pissing off the RCMP HAHAHA i was laughing my ass off for provoking the RCMP."
The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet.
"So what we are in the presence of is a ranter, informed by the usual conspiratorial views that are unfortunately part and parcel of extremist Islamist thought -- especially the core anti-Semitic notion of a giant Jewish conspiracy," said Professor Wesley Wark, a Canadian security expert.
But he said while the language is violent and crude, it is probably harmless venting. "On the other hand, there is always a worry that such speech could tip over into action by this person or others of like mind."
The RCMP would not comment on the probe, saying sensitive matters of national security were involved, but spokeswoman Corporal Cathy McCrory said the government was "committed to ensuring the safety and security of citizens and we will not tolerate those that seek to harm Canadians."
Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA) does not specifically outlaw incitement of terrorism, although such a measure has been discussed by MPs.
Prof. Work, visiting research professor at the University of Ottawa School of Public and International Affair, said a debate on the topic is needed.
"It's high time we had a proper public airing of the pros and cons of further reforms to the ATA, including an incitement clause, and a public airing of the nature of legal powers needed to ensure prompt and effective monitoring of potentially harmful Internet traffic."
A few days after Mr. Hossain wrote that "we should do" a Ramstein-type plot in Canada, the RCMP contacted him. He spoke to them on Sept. 18 at his lawyer's office.
He later posted messages saying he was under police investigation, but he said that "cheerleading" for Muslim insurgents in Afghanistan "is every Muslim's right."
Although he did not tone down his rhetoric, he did make one change: His comments are now sometimes followed by a disclaimer that says he is not inciting violence but merely "suggesting" scenarios and he is not responsible if they actually happen.
"I don't see how the right to free speech includes deliberate
incitement to violence," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University professor and a leading international expert on terrorism, after reading the postings.
"One would think that [Canadian soldiers] are owed more than, 'Well, I don't think we can secure a conviction.' How demoralizing is it for soldiers to find out that people are openly advocating terrorism against them and yet the government who they serve won't do anything about it because it's either too much trouble or there's no guarantee they're going to succeed?"
Prof. Hoffman said the postings remind him of the material that incited Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. "Reading those, I was wondering, is there any Western country that would tolerate people posting things talking about staging attacks like this?"
He said that while there was no guarantee a criminal case would succeed, prosecutors might want to go ahead anyway, if only to send a message that "you can't openly advocate the murder of Canadian soldiers.
Four months after he met RCMP officers at his lawyer's office, the Mississauga man continues to make provocative postings. On Jan. 17, he wrote that, "If the Taliban had the capability to attack our troops in our own soil, which I personally hope they do in the future, then these pussies will be dead scared of sending any more troops in2 Afghanistan."
sbell@nationalpost.com
---
BACK STORY
An Internet posting from Oct. 29, 2007, in which Salman Hossain imagines, presumably tongue-in-cheek, how the RCMP would describe him:
WANTED!!! DEAD OR ALIVE - Considered armed and/or dangerous may be considering taking a trip to Afghanistan on G-Haad training. If not, possibly wired with explosives threatening to blow up Parliament Hill, and threatening attacks on NATO-National Army bases around the nation or perhaps overseas. He is wanted in connection with the attacks that have killed 70+ troops so far. Please hand him over to relevant authorities otherwise he may blow himself up in your face. If you do see him with perhaps heavy clothing -- PLEASE call your local bomb disposal unit and the SWAT team along with the National Army. Potential future Bin Laden!!! - Height: 5'5" - Weight: 135 lbs - Tastes: Enjoys prayer, perfume and/or women. - Dislikes: Jews, Terrorists, Apes, Pigs (refrains from eating), Mossad, Zionists, Bankers, Moneylenders, anything Israeli in nature, Black op Merceneries [Sic], Media-men, Jewish supremacists, anything Kosher, Synagogues, rabbis and other holy crooks pretending to be Saviours from God, and of course last but not least the F---ING TALMUD. - Ambition:Willing to martyr himself in kamekaze [Sic] attack. - Any physical peculiarities: Has tattoos on his arm claiming "God is Great" in Arabic. - Under investigation for: 1. Inciting hate speech 2. Uttering death threats 3. Facilitating terrorism.
Close
Reader Discussion
.... I could have highlighted the whole thing...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
This guy sounds like a total wackjob. Reading what he wrote, its crazy that a person could see the world like that. Im not sure if I should hate him or pity him.
He is probably some skinny loser wannabe poser with acne who has no friends and sits up at night typing bs on an online fourm. Based on what hes written, I dont think anyone is going to have their views changed by that garbage, the only people who would like it would probably already be in his radical islamic.
The again who really knows.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a rational conversation with him?
He is probably some skinny loser wannabe poser with acne who has no friends and sits up at night typing bs on an online fourm. Based on what hes written, I dont think anyone is going to have their views changed by that garbage, the only people who would like it would probably already be in his radical islamic.
The again who really knows.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a rational conversation with him?
- Reaction score
- 2,538
- Points
- 1,260
And here we be, the posting in question:
He covers his six (only a bit) in another thread apparently posted later:
He covers his six (only a bit) in another thread apparently posted later:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
milnewstbay said:
What about under the National origin part? Could being an identifiable group within Canadian society meet their standard? Would describing the CF as "Western" make it a cultural issue? They seem to be flexible WRT the complaints and I figured someone clever could present it as such. He does however certainly mention the Jewish religion in his spew and wouldn't a CF member of that faith have grounds based on that?
I knew it was a reach, but given the frivilous nature of some of the cases they take, I figured it was a way to at least sting the guy a little.
- Reaction score
- 213
- Points
- 880
I doubt anyone worthy of this nation will care if he dissapears...
- Reaction score
- 2,538
- Points
- 1,260
SprCForr said:
CAVEAT: I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like if he'd threatened Muslim members of the CF, MAYBE there would have been a rights case. Don't think "Western" is specific enough as a race or ethnic group, though.
MAJONES said:
I'm guessing that for the RCMP, as for most police services, it's all about "what can we prove in court?" and "what do we have a reasonable chance of getting a guilty verdict on?"
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
SweetNavyJustice said:
Say?
Aren't those the same wack jobs who are suing MacLeans magazine, and bankrupted the Western Standard through Legal Suits that Ezra Levant is fighting?
;DRHFC_piper
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Wow... I'm actually disgusted.
So, this guy enjoys free speech, only to use it to advocate an attack on those who provide it... Wow.
Give this man a one way ticket to the Astan and let him 'join the fight' on the front line.
Reading his ranting actually made me feel ill.
So, this guy enjoys free speech, only to use it to advocate an attack on those who provide it... Wow.
Give this man a one way ticket to the Astan and let him 'join the fight' on the front line.
Reading his ranting actually made me feel ill.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
+1. I know what this guy needs, and it isn't nice.RHFC_piper said:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Not only is he enjoying it... he's out right abusing it.RHFC_piper said:
And I thought I was mad the first time I read the article.... second time around is worse!
I'm horrified he hasn't been punished for writing these things. His little bs disclaimer at the end of his posts shows us how he lacks the stones to really believe the hate spewing from his cake-hole. :rage:
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
tech2002 said:
You lost me here, why do you wonder that??
dileas
tess
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
This mans living on OUR soil, living under OUR laws and being protected by OUR soldiers..how dare he talk like this. Free Speech has a limit, and that limit is when your talking about the death of soldiers that are protecting you. This man should either
1. Best sent to jail
2. Be deported
3. I honestly dont know this is frustrating me
How dare he speak like this and claiming it to be free speech. This man is a disgrace to all Muslims, how dare he call him self Muslim. :-X
1. Best sent to jail
2. Be deported
3. I honestly dont know this is frustrating me
How dare he speak like this and claiming it to be free speech. This man is a disgrace to all Muslims, how dare he call him self Muslim. :-X
C
CrazyCanuck
Guest
How bout we just sentence him to community service on the nearest CF base and see how much fun he has there?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
I've been following this thread - and yes, I'm disgusted with this character.
BUT - as some have pointed out (and I realize that none making the comments are lawyers) - he's either not guilty of anything, or the RCMP feel there's not enough evidence to gain a conviction. So - "sentencing him" to ANYTHING, including community service, is a non-starter.
MOST guys like this are attention sluts - if they don't get attention they slink back under the rock they crawled out from under. As long as they're getting attention, they'll continue spouting off. As for those few guys like this who ARE a danger, I tend to trust the RCMP to keep an eye on them, and intervene when necessary and LEGAL.
Violence by me (no matter how much I may personally feel it is warranted), or incitement by me of others to violence against this cockroach only puts me in the same league with him - and it's not a league that I - or, I would hope, ANY member of the CF aspires to.
Just a thought.
BUT - as some have pointed out (and I realize that none making the comments are lawyers) - he's either not guilty of anything, or the RCMP feel there's not enough evidence to gain a conviction. So - "sentencing him" to ANYTHING, including community service, is a non-starter.
MOST guys like this are attention sluts - if they don't get attention they slink back under the rock they crawled out from under. As long as they're getting attention, they'll continue spouting off. As for those few guys like this who ARE a danger, I tend to trust the RCMP to keep an eye on them, and intervene when necessary and LEGAL.
Violence by me (no matter how much I may personally feel it is warranted), or incitement by me of others to violence against this cockroach only puts me in the same league with him - and it's not a league that I - or, I would hope, ANY member of the CF aspires to.
Just a thought.
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