Islam and Western Society

[George Wallace]

WHAT !!!!!!!

No Bacon.

Sacrilege.

 

[Jed]

Due to pressure from Muslims, Subway Sandwiches in the UK has gone Halal. I'm normally pretty accommodating but IMHO this is a step too far. Offering Halal meat is one thing but dropping non Halal meat is too much.


Daily Mail

I concur with your opinion but the motive to do this was most likely just a business sales decision.

 

[cavalryman]

I concur with your opinion but the motive to do this was most likely just a business sales decision.

And the folks who object to having their dietary decisions dictated by 7th century superstition can spend their junk food money elsewhere.  The free market is a fine thing when allowed to work.  It will be interesting to see if and how this affects Subway's bottom line.  Which consumers can you afford to annoy?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In Islam Jesus was considered one of the most important of the early prophets, I think there are 25 important ones and about 300 minor ones. 

 

[George Wallace]

In Islam Jesus was considered one of the most important of the early prophets, I think there are 25 important ones and about 300 minor ones.

Question comes to mind: If Jesus is more often referred to than Mohammed, then why such a high regard for a 'prophet' who was a 'flawed human-being'?

 

[BorisK]

And the folks who object to having their dietary decisions dictated by 7th century superstition can spend their junk food money elsewhere.  The free market is a fine thing when allowed to work.  It will be interesting to see if and how this affects Subway's bottom line.  Which consumers can you afford to annoy?

Worth mentioning I think that quite a few food chains have served Halal only without notifying the average guest using signage or any other notice in a shady attempt to limit the potential for objections.  I will be interested to see how prominently said menu changes are advertised at Subway. 

 

[George Wallace]

Worth mentioning I think that quite a few food chains have served Halal only without notifying the average guest using signage or any other notice in a shady attempt to limit the potential for objections.  I will be interested to see how prominently said menu changes are advertised at Subway.

I was thinking much the same......The eating public will show their opinions with their feet.....Fish N Chips anyone?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Question comes to mind: If Jesus is more often referred to than Mohammed, then why such a high regard for a 'prophet' who was a 'flawed human-being'?

Seriously George? You're actually trying to decipher this? Islamist scholars cannot even agree what it says.

Save yourself the headache.

 

[George Wallace]

Seriously George? You're actually trying to decipher this? Islamist scholars cannot even agree what it says.

Thant may be the problem.

Save yourself the headache.

I really don't get into theology.    ;D

 

[YZT580]

If you want a possible solution George then think of the early history of Islam.  It was a start up religion in an area that was totally dominated by Christianity.  If Mohammed had denied that Christ existed he would have been locked up as being totally nuts.  by accepting the miraculous bits of Christianity and re-writing their importance in support of himself, the last prophet, he was able to add legitimacy. 

 

[CougarKing]

British Muslim community leaders denounce what they say is the "jihadi subculture" that drove many of their sons to go to Iraq to fight for ISIS:

Reuters

British Muslims blame jihadi subculture after beheading video

(...SNIPPED)

The video caused particular shock in Britain, which is home to about 2.7 million Muslims, although the hundreds of British men fighting with the militants in Iraq and Syria have created concern for some time.

Iqbal Sacranie, an adviser to the Muslim Council of Britain, said Britons from across the country's communities had to stop young men being seduced by radical ideologies.

"This sub culture of this 'jihadi-cool' - as they call it in the media - within the margins of society ..., that is the real challenge," he told BBC Radio. "This is a problem that affects all of us and it will only be dealt with more effectively if all of us are working together on this."

Sacranie said the Muslim community was pushing the message that "this is totally alien to Islam" and families were reporting to the authorities when they discovered their sons had headed to the Middle East to fight. He also told London's Evening Standard newspaper that anyone who recognized the man in the video had a duty to contact police.

JOHN, PAUL AND RINGO
The Guardian newspaper said a former hostage had identified the masked man as the leader of three Britons who guarded foreign hostages in the city of Raqqa - Islamic State's stronghold in eastern Syria.

The BBC also reported that hostages had given their three captors nicknames after members of the Beatles pop group - John, Paul and Ringo.
Ghaffar Hussain, managing director of the counter-extremism Quilliam Foundation, said it was almost inevitable that men who had fought in Syria would return to plan attacks in Europe.

"It is disturbing that people born and raised in Britain and who have gone to the same schools as us could have been essentially indoctrinated to the extent where they can justify raping women and chopping heads off," he said.

(...EDITED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you want a possible solution George then think of the early history of Islam.  It was a start up religion in an area that was totally dominated by Christianity.  If Mohammed had denied that Christ existed he would have been locked up as being totally nuts.  by accepting the miraculous bits of Christianity and re-writing their importance in support of himself, the last prophet, he was able to add legitimacy.

Much more complex than that, the place was awash with religion, zortestions, Jews, Christians, Abrahamic worshiping tribes, Paganistic tribes, Abrahamic-pagan tribes, some Buddhists and few others. Muhammad first marriage to a woman that ran a large trading empire I suspect gave him significant exposure to other cultures in the area, I think he saw the power of a single Monolithic faith had on a people and wanted to bring the Arab into such a group. It was a hard slog and he was advised to incorporate many of the then current practices into his new religion, incorporating the existing Kaba supposedly built by Abraham himself was key as that was also the yearly gathering area of the tribes at a holy place where they would put aside their feuds for a bit. Another bit that was added was the whole 3 times around the rock throwing pebbles. He tried allying with the Jews and Christians, but they saw him as yet another "wannabe prophet" which explains his hatred of the Jews as he was apparently betrayed by a Jew in Medina and forced to flee. To be fair he did create the first codified laws protecting Arab woman, I suspect they were not well received back then either. 

 

[s2184]

I have watched couple of videos in VICE News about ISIS, & they are very disturbing.  :facepalm:

I am grateful for living in Canada.

My mentor used to tell me Islamist extremists try to go back to centuries. Oil, and money might give them power to reach their goals up to some extend.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Then you'll be happy to hear their PAFO (press officer) who stars in one of the video's has been reported by IS of being martyred in a missle strike. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Here in Montreal, the local CTV after the beheading had a McGill University expert on Extreme Islamism who described ISIS as a "death cult" within Islam.

If so, I think the world should grant them their wish. They are as much a menace to Islam itself throughout the world as to the West.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Here in Montreal, the local CTV after the beheading had a McGill University expert on Extreme Islamism who described ISIS as a "death cult" within Islam.

If so, I think the world should grant them their wish. They are as much a menace to Islam itself throughout the world as to the West.

I suspect he is (partially) right ... but I also think the idea of a new caliphate resonates with many young people. Remember it was just a few centuries ago that the Mughuls and Ottomans had the biggest and 'best' empires in the known world. Now, with China rising and America evidently not all powerful it must seem reasonable that Muslims can have the 'glory' back. So, it is likely more than just a death cult.

But I think that to "grant them their wish," unless the "granting" is massive, bloody and downright sickening to almost everyone, will be counterproductive. I don't know how to win at asymmetrical warfare, but I'm pretty sure what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan isn't the right answer.

 

[s2184]

Then you'll be happy to hear their PAFO (press officer) who stars in one of the video's has been reported by IS of being martyred in a missile strike.

I don't think it was going to make any difference. I read a comment yesterday in NYT; somebody saying US could simply make an end to ISIL by just using 1000 missiles. I don't believe ISIL is that simple & easy to deal with.

There should be a non stop collaborative efforts among countries to bring down ISIL ineffective over long term. It cannot be done overnight or in weeks or months. It will take years to bring ISIS down to earth. They are in their dream paradise until then.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's like a weed. You can't kill it by tearing off the plant. You have to go all the way down to the last bit of root.

For Islamic extremist organizations, it's the same thing. The people on the ground, no matter how high up they seem, are just the plant. We have to dig way down and eradicate the very tip of the root. In this case, you have to eliminate the very top of the financial support.

Groups like the Saudis.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I don't think it was going to make any difference. I read a comment yesterday in NYT; somebody saying US could simply make an end to ISIL by just using 1000 missiles. I don't believe ISIL is that simple & easy to deal with.

There should be a non stop collaborative efforts among countries to bring down ISIL ineffective over long term. It cannot be done overnight or in weeks or months. It will take years to bring ISIS down to earth. They are in their dream paradise until then.

Of course, taking one shitbird out a flock the size of what Passenger Pigeons must have looked like (millions), won't make much difference in the long run.  It's just pleasant to read of one of their media stars getting the gong on the Gong Show.  Besides, he was frigging annoying to watch...

 

[George Wallace]

It's like a weed. You can't kill it by tearing off the plant. You have to go all the way down to the last bit of root.

For Islamic extremist organizations, it's the same thing. The people on the ground, no matter how high up they seem, are just the plant. We have to dig way down and eradicate the very tip of the root. In this case, you have to eliminate the very top of the financial support.

Groups like the Saudis.

It is not only the money, though.  It is also the radical Imams who lead Islamic worship services and indoctrinate the young and mostly uneducated impressionable minds, with these barbaric teachings.  They float under the radar, spreading the disease and are like the mythical Hydra.  It is even harder to track down and end 'thought' than bank accounts and financiers.