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Is the US on the brink of a humiliating defeat in Afghanistan?

Thucydides said:
Had I been Generalissimo, the center of effort would have been the schools and getting as many Afghan children/young adults educated as possible, using western methodology. If we assume a start date of 2005 (when Canadian forces moved back into Kandahar) then the presumptive end date would be 2015, when we would start graduating large cadres of educated people into Afghan society who could make changes internally.

Assuming that we can change a society in 10 years through an education program in an active warzone is as silly as thinking elections mean the country is a functioning liberal democratic state.

The fact that military strategy and tactics are mixed up with schools and elections shows the damage that FM 3-24 has wrought in our thinking of counter-insurgency/pacification/putting down revolt.  The bayonet exists to provide security and nothing more - if you or your host nation can't do anything with that security (stability and all that jazz) then you have problems outside the military realm (ie - you've backed the wrong horse).
 
dogger1936 said:
We could have been successful I believe if we focused all our resources into Panjuai proper. We could have made it a modern town with highly educated people; and prevented taliban influence and attack. We could have built on the law and security and had it maybe to a point where we could have moved into other nearby villages and with the example of panjuai and it`s local support; did the same thing.

What you are describing is Canada's part of the campaign circa 2009-2011.  Once TFK was augmented with U.S. units and other U.S. formations took control of other districts in Kandahar Province, the Canadian AOR shrunk to Panjwayi/Dand and, by 2010, Panjwayi alone.  What's more, the size of the land-owners (the BG) increased tremendously - by 2010, the Battlegroup was responsible for Panjwayi and had 5 Infantry Companies and a Tank Squadron.

Was it any more effective?  The jury is still out, but I've seen some promising tactical assessments.  One item that bears some research was the Canadian effort to partition Panjwayi off through obstacles to control movement.  I think it was generally regarded as effective and supports my suspicion that the key to any COIN effort is population control (which FM 3-24 ignores and any serious talk of Afghanistan has missed).
 
Thucydides said:
Dogger, you are describing exactly the sort of "tache d'huile" effort that "should" have been done.

The 'tache d'huile' concept was useful for pacifying rural tribesmen in the 1800s for colonial expansion, but its limitations beyond that are acknowledged in current literature on the subject.  The same with the 'clear, hold, build' mantra, which fell out of writing concerned with countering revolutionary communist insurgency.

The situation now is a bit different - as we are not colonial occupiers in the sense that the local administration is nominally independent of us, nor are we dealing with communist revolutionary insurgencies.  Blindly applying old mantras for today's insurgencies is not really going to give you an effective solution to the problem.
 
Infanteer said:
The 'tache d'huile' concept was useful for pacifying rural tribesmen in the 1800s for colonial expansion, but its limitations beyond that are acknowledged in current literature on the subject.  The same with the 'clear, hold, build' mantra, which fell out of writing concerned with countering revolutionary communist insurgency.

The situation now is a bit different - as we are not colonial occupiers in the sense that the local administration is nominally independent of us, nor are we dealing with communist revolutionary insurgencies.  Blindly applying old mantras for today's insurgencies is not really going to give you an effective solution to the problem.

It worked in Algeria somewhat well too - but with a lot more emphasis on population control measures that are indeed lacking in US doctrine (which, I am told, is receiving a thorough and long overdue overhaul, but how much of an impact that has I don't really know, and I'm not really going to say I have a lot of faith in). 3-24.2 gets a little more into those measures, but it very rapidly starts to read like The Infantry Section And Platoon In Battle and there's definitely a disconnect between the development/political efforts necessary to succeed in COIN and the military aspect of clear-hold-build. At the high level, there's a good framework for solving the problems, but translating that into actual efforts is not so simple.

During a recent District Stability Framework course I was involved with here, it was impossible not to notice that there's a deep mutual distrust and even contempt between ISAF and the various aid agencies which were involved. If those folks can't all get on the same page, it's hard to see how much benefit there could be in engaging locals in a lot of cases. There is also in Afghanistan the problem of a major external support factor that there is no easy way to address. Watching any ANA COIN course go off the rails as soon as Pakistan is mentioned is an experience. It's also telling that more educated Afghans will point out that it's simply easier for them to blame outsiders for all their problems rather than taking any responsibility for themselves. However, my sample space is interpreters I work with, and some ANA officers who are keen to make the country work, so it has its limitations.

Thucydides and I agree that education would make a huge difference here, but it's not as simple as building schools. It's hard to find qualified teachers, and the rural populace still doesn't see a value in much education in many (but by no means all) cases. As far as development goes, I've heard stories of projects going nowhere because of the way they were described to locals. A USAID person here told us about in Helmand Province how they had set up a workshop/school for women to learn sewing and that sort of thing, with the idea that it could become self-sustaining through generating economic activity. A couple years later, it had never been opened or used, and they asked around and learned that when it was pitched as a way to "empower women" and create "economic independence" (I think that was the term, at least), that immediately made people shun it. It wasn't a cultural fit to suggest such a thing.

There's also, of course, pandemic corruption. It makes sense, in theory, to enable locals to start businesses and do the work of building infrastructure and that sort of thing, but often the money is invested and promptly disappears, sometimes (like in the case of a road project in Helmand again) things actually get worse - a small narrow road was set to be improved to allow farmers to get more produce to market instead of it wilting in the fields, the money allocated, the work started - and huge gravel piles and excavations were abandoned when the contractors absconded with the money, leaving the road now completely impassable until arrangements could be made to try to finish it. Efforts through Shafafiyet to attack corruption make for interesting reading, but they have a long way to go to deal with problems. But in a country with so little basis for economic growth (other than a massive narcotics trade) it's hard to figure out how things will be sustainable, especially as we go through transitions over the next few years.

It's a very different viewpoint than you'd find outside of Kabul, I'm sure. I wasn't ever down south so I don't have a good frame of reference to compare, but it definitely seems like the difference in POVs is huge reading accounts of those who were there against what I can glean where I am in Kabul.
 
Perhaps some of the things that we think the locals will love can simply fuel the insurgency? My reading indicates that the strife that precipiated the Soviet invasion came out of resistance to "modernization" measures being proposed by foreign-educated Kabul elites. The traditional rural power structures were challenged and reacted. By the same token, making the empowerment of women a plank of our platform could lead to more trouble. I don't think that a lack education or employment opportunities for girls is what fuels the insurgency.

If we cannot answer "why" there is an insurgency then I don't think we can answer how to defeat it.
 
As I typed this, Tango2Bravo premtped me.  His post says it all.  There are, when you boil it down 4 essential problems in Afghanistan.  These problems won't necessarily lead to a 'humiliating defeat', but they very likely won't make progress possible.

1.  A constitution that centralized state power in a state that has traditionally seen power devolved to the lowest levels of tribal governance.  This essentially 'redistributed' powers in the Afghan state to the victors of a civil war, the Northern Alliance.  We, in typically Western fashion, have created a power structure in Afghanistan completely antithetical to the way the people have viewed their relationship with the state for the last 2 centuries;

2.  Seeing the feasibility of the state as it currently exists is nil, the Afghan government has read the writing on the wall - note Karzai's planned exit date coincides with NATOs exit.  In the meantime, what has transpired is a bit of a farce, with an international military force driving the counter-insurgency effort and the government of the nation critiquing its actions every month.  The most basic idea of COIN should be the flag test, coined by a smart SF Col over on the SWC, which argues that by going to a nation's capital and looking for the highest flag pole, one can identify who has the lead in COIN - everyone else is doing FID.  Instead, when it comes to strategy, we see an ISAF cart driving a Kabul horse.

3.  International do-gooders have not helped.  In becoming a 'cause celebre', a tremendous amount of money has flowed into Afghanistan from governments and NGOs.  The problem is that there is no accountability or oversight and the unclass material from CJIATF Shafafiyet points to the glaringly obvious problem that the billions of dollars pumped into the country fuel the conflict - it is simply uneconomical for most of the regional players to want peace at this point; and

4.  All this is overlayed with a military strategy driven by the tactics of clear, hold, build.  The problem with this is that the Pashtun are infamously polite and notoriously xenophobic.  If centralized Kabul governance gets Pashtun tribal society in a tizzy (as it has in the past - see 1978 and 1929) how is enforcing centralized Kabul governance by putting a western soldier and his heavy armoured vehicle in every village on the AfPak border going to help things? 

Notice all these problems are concerned with policy and strategy.  No amount of good tactics, regardless of what contemporary pop-centric COIN tells you, will fix this.

On the subject of tactics, the whole bit of this lone U.S. soldier killing 17 Afghans that started the current round of teeth gnashing will have no real strategic effects, despite what some pundits trumpet.  It is a small event that, like Haditha that everyone in Iraq soon forgot about, will just be another blip in the narrative of this war.
 
I am an avid reader of mil blogs and one of my favorites is Captain's Journal. In one blog dated 4 MAR he reviews a book review by COL Gian Gentile now a Professor at West Point.,of Westmoreland,The General That Lost Vietnam.Gentile brings to the review his combat experience. Colonel Gentile doesnt care for the Army's infatuation with COIN.I wanted to add COL Gentile's page at West Point.

http://www.dean.usma.edu/departments/history/NamePages/Gentile/Gentile.html

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/03/04/the-better-war/

Gentile uses the occasion of a new book to give us insights into Vietnam, extending his lessons into Iraq and Afghanistan.  The book is Westmoreland: The General Who Lost Vietnam, by Lewis Sorley.  Gentile begins his review thusly.

DID GENERAL Westmoreland lose Vietnam? The answer is no. But he did lose the war over the memory of the Vietnam War. He lost it to military historian Lewis Sorley, among others. In his recent biography of William C. Westmoreland, Sorley posits what might be called “the better-war thesis”—that a better war leading to American victory was available to the United States if only the right general had been in charge. The problem, however, is that this so-called better war exists mostly in the minds of misguided historians and agenda-driven pundits.

[ ... ]

In 2008, former secretary of defense Robert Gates chided the American military establishment, and the army in particular, for its affliction of “Next-War-itis.” Parts of the American military, lamented Gates, were too focused on fighting hypothetical future wars rather than the immediate wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But the secretary also might have noted another dangerous affliction suffered by parts of the U.S. Army: “Past-War-itis.” Those afflicted with this disease obsess about a Vietnam defeat they believe should have been averted.

Sorley titles his book Westmoreland: The General Who Lost Vietnam. This is “Past-War-itis” run amok. Is it possible that a single man actually lost the war and all of Vietnam? The question is pertinent today because many seeking to bring logic to the past ten years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan have embraced the simplistic concept that to win those wars we just need to put the right guy in charge. One such example is the Council on Foreign Relations’ Max Boot, an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars … another example is writer Thomas Ricks, one of the purveyors of the better-war thesis for Iraq. Ricks wrote a glowing jacket endorsement for Sorley’s book, and he also noted on his military-affairs blog that it would probably end up as the “definitive” biography of Westmoreland. If one is interested, however, in a fair and balanced historical biography of William C. Westmoreland, Ricks is wildly off the mark.

The better-war thesis argues that there was a tactical panacea in Vietnam—a golden cipher of success—just waiting for the right general who could grasp and apply it. Instead, for the first three years of the war beginning in 1965, the U.S. Army was led by a fumbling general named William Childs Westmoreland, who did not crack the code that would have produced victory for the United States. Luckily, as the better-war thesis continues, once Westmoreland was replaced in the summer of 1968 by a savior general named Creighton Abrams, everything changed for the better, and Abrams’s army actually won the war in the South by 1971. The tragedy, according to this thesis, was that weak American politicians undermined the victory by eventually cutting off material support to South Vietnam after the United States departed in 1972.

Weak American politicians and an unwilling American public did indeed undermine the campaign, but I’ll basically state my agreement with Gian’s thesis on the better general, while I’ll also [later] demur with some of his specific findings on Vietnam and Iraq. We’ll continue with Gian’s observations.

The tale of a better war in Vietnam is seductive. It offers a simple explanation of an army redeemed through tactical innovation brought about by a savior general. But the United States did not lose the Vietnam War because it didn’t have the right general in charge at the start, or because of weak politicians toward the end of the war. Washington lost because it failed at strategy. It failed, in short, to discern that the war was unwinnable at a cost in blood and treasure that the American people would accept. There was never a “better war” in Vietnam.

THIS FAITH in the promise of better tactical wars with savior generals has emerged in full force in the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In August 2007, as the violence in Iraq dropped precipitously, Clifford May, former New York Times reporter and current president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, identified Petraeus as the main cause of the reduction in violence. May wrote that this enlightened general replaced a failed general and then equipped his army in Iraq with new methods for conducting counterinsurgency. Later, in October 2009, Sorley penned a New York Times article that praised the counterinsurgency tactics of General Stanley McChrystal, then senior American commander in Afghanistan. May and Sorley saw Iraq and Afghanistan as better wars in the making based on the arrival of savior generals.

[ ... ]

But the conditions in Iraq that would lead to the lowering of violence in late 2007 were already in place. They included the spread of the Anbar Awakening and the decision of Shia militias to end attacks against Sunni civilians. Recently published databases such as the Iraq Body Count project’s show quite clearly that the sectarian violence peaked in December 2006 and then started to drop a good two months before Petraeus ever rode onto the scene with his new counterinsurgency manual in hand. Petraeus, the savior general, played only a marginal role in the greater series of events and circumstances that brought down the level of Iraqi violence.

I do indeed think that there was a “better war” in Vietnam – not in the sense that Gian critiques – but we’ll get to that later.  His observations on Iraq contain a number of things I have personally addressed with Gian, but it will be useful and productive to lay it out for closer inspection.

First, let’s address the so-called Anbar Awakening.  The Awakening – primarily in 2006 and beyond – was significant.  It certainly truncated the Marine Corps campaign for Anbar shorter than what it would have been.  But it was primarily a feature of Ramadi, and it was primarily a feature that obtained as a result of hard Marine Corps combat operations in the Anbar Province convincing the population that the victor would ultimately be the Marine Corps.

In Haditha late in 2006 and early in 2007 pacification is primarily attributed to a former officer in the Saddam Hussein army known simply as Colonel Faruq, with the power and charisma to bring the town to heel, along with sand berms around the city (constructed by the Marines) to prevent transnational insurgents from coming in from Syria and causing problems.

In Al Qaim, the fight against al Qaeda began in 2005 when Abu Ahmed took them on, lost, fled to the desert, and sought (and obtained) help from the U.S. Marines to defeat AQ.  In Fallujah in 2007, al Qaeda fighters were so firmly ensconced in the city that the people, fearing for their lives, were sending their own children out to mark and encircle Marine patrols with balloons (at the direction of the AQ fighters) so that the patrols could be targeted with crew served weapons.

It took the 2/6 Marines using extremely hard and aggressive tactics, coupled with local IPs and block captains, or Mukhtars, recruited from among the population, again using extremely hard and aggressive tactics, to drive AQ from the city.

My point is that invoking the Anbar Awakening has become in many ways symptomatic the campaign.  It’s as if without it, the Marines wouldn’t have been successful, but with it, Anbar was Shangri La.  Neither view is true.  Nor is it true that the Marines weren’t grateful for what awakening that did occur in various parts of Anbar.  The truth is more complex than simple narratives can possible convey.

Similarly, to say that the Shia militias decided to end attacks on the Sunnis misses the point, and in the superlative degree.  Perhaps they did, but this bit of historical myopia is tailor made for constructing false narratives about Baghdad and the Shia South.

In 2003 the 3/2 Marines had Moqtada al Sadr in their custody (this is as conveyed from the Battaion Commander to Andrew Lubin).  They were ordered to release him.  Then as the U.S. Marines (BLT 1/4) and U.S. Army Calvary swept through al-Najaf in 2004, for all practical purposes they obliterated the Sadrist militia.  The year of 2004 could have seen the virtual end of the organized Shi’a militia threat.  The 1/4 Marines had surrounded Moqtada al Sadr (see this John Burns interview, beginning at 17:20 into the discussion).  Sadr and his militia were essentially finished twice, once in 2003 and again in 2004, due to 3/2 and 1/4 Marine Corps combat operations.  Both times they were ordered to stand down.*

We could have chosen to kill Sadr, finish the Shi’a militia, and end the threat of a violent Shi’a uprising against the Sunni population.  We chose unwisely, and the order came down to let Sadr go.  To say that the Shi’a militia later decided to end attacks against the Sunnis is to miss the bigger picture, i.e., there wouldn’t have been any Sadr to command them, and likely no militia to speak of, had we engaged in the “better war” in Iraq when we had the chance.  Instead we had Paul Bremer, the British and horrible leadership.  It was a toxic combination, and it cost precious lives.

Meanwhile to the West, campaign command pulled the Marines back from Al Fajr I, creating the necessity for Al Fajr II, more loss of lives, more time wasted, and more legitimacy lost.  We didn’t fight the better war in Fallujah either.  And when we completed the job, we sent Marines on wasteful MEUs rather than into Fallujah to ensure stability, and thus the 2/6 Marines had to deal with an ensconced al Qaeda in 2007.

But something tells me what while Gian and I may disagree on the details of the campaign in Iraq, he would concur with my general theme.  Gian observes of Vietnam:

The better-war thesis argues that if only the U.S. Army had concentrated from the start on building up the South Vietnamese armed forces and winning the hearts and minds of the South Vietnamese people through limited applications of military force, we would have won the war. But the question remains: Precisely how could tactical adjustments early in the war have overpowered the political constraints placed on the army by the Johnson administration, which kept it from taking the fight to the North Vietnamese? Or the dysfunctional nature of the South Vietnamese government and military that precluded them from standing on their own? Or the declining popular support and political will in the United States as the war dragged on without a decent end in sight? Or, perhaps most importantly, how could tactical adjustments toward better methods of counterinsurgency have overpowered a communist enemy that fought the war totally while the United States fought it with limited means? In his Westmoreland biography, Sorley essentially ignores these questions.

Could the United States have prevailed in Vietnam? Yes, but it would have had to commit to staying there for generations, not a mere handful of years. The Vietnam War was an attempt at armed nation building for South Vietnam.

The better fight in Vietnam to which I earlier referred has nothing to do with staying for generations or armed nation-building.  These are the policy mistakes we have made in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We tend to see campaigns as failures unless they install governments and re-create populations that never pose another threat to the U.S.  But this isn’t reality, and this is certainly not the way the U.S. Marines think about these issues.

This last point isn’t mere inter-service rivalry.  I cannot count the number of times I have heard Marines express their desire to end campaigns quickly, and then go back and do it again in two, five or ten years if the need arises.

The better war to which I refer was alluded to by Gian when he posed the question, “Precisely how could tactical adjustments early in the war have overpowered the political constraints placed on the army by the Johnson administration, which kept it from taking the fight to the North Vietnamese?”

If this question isn’t explored, the book is essentially worthless no matter how many endorsements the author obtained.  Consider for a moment how we dealt with the threat from Germany during World War II.

The burning of Hamburg that night was remarkable in that I saw not many fires but one.  Set in the darkness was a turbulent dome of bright red fire, lighted and ignited like the glowing heart of a vast brazier.  I saw no flames, no outlines of buildings, only brighter fires which flared like yellow torches against a background of bright red ash.  Above the city was a misty red haze.  I looked down, fascinated but aghast, satisfied yet horrified.  I had never seen a fire like that before and was never to see its like again.

Roads melted, and some people were seen stuck in the melted asphalt, having put their hands out to try to get out, only to get their hands stuck as well.  Many were seen on fire, eventually melting in their own fat.  Eight square miles of Hamburg were completely burned out that night, killing 45,000 Germans.

If we had not done this, countless more American lives would have been lost, and the war may not have been won by the allies at all.  Destruction of the will and industry to wage war was necessary to end the war, whether this fits into the American clinical view of bloodless war or not.

Compare this with the decision to refuse to take the fight to the North Vietnamese.  Consider for a moment what would have happened if we had bombed the dikes and dams on the Red River Delta.  To be sure, the cost in human tragedy would have been staggering, but this is exactly the point.  We wish to wage war, but only partly.  The Viet Cong insurgency in the South was for all practical purposes defeated (in spite of the succor given to them by the North via the Ho Chi Minh trail), and it was the entrance of the NVA regulars that saved the insurgency.  A hobbled North Vietnam from having bombed the Red River Delta for year wouldn’t have been able to give the kind of assistance that the VC got.  It might have even brought down the regime.

Back to Iraq, if we had taken on the Syrian pre-deployment camps for AQ fighters (80 – 150 fighters per year crossed the border to fight in Iraq), and if we had fought the Iranian Quds forces by targeting them in Iraq and elsewhere (while we also engaged in a program of targeting Quds generals like Suleimani), and if we had allowed the Marines to kill Sadr and finish off his militia, and if we had allowed them to continue the sweep through Anbar like they started it in Fallujah, and if we had sent more Marines into Anbar instead of on wasteful MEUs … what would the campaign have looked like?

Gian continues:

In war, political and societal will are calculations of strategy, and strategists in Vietnam should have discerned early on that the war was simply unwinnable based on what the American people were willing to pay. Once the war started and it became clear that to prevail meant staying for an unacceptable amount of time, American strategy should have moved to withdraw much earlier than it did. Ending wars fought under botched strategy and policy can be every bit as damaging as the wars themselves.

The better-war thesis, with its seductively simple cause-and-effect schema, buries the reality of American strategic failure in Vietnam.

The campaign in Vietnam was unwinnable under the stipulations dictated by the President, Congress and perhaps the Secretary of Defense.  And the campaign was unwinnable if winning was defined as building an American-like democracy (in which Gian is correct, taking multiple decades of toil).  On this Gian and I concur.  The proposed end was wrong, and the means weren’t defined in a manner that matched the proposed end.

Gian goes on to supply data that contradicts Sorley’s theses.  Again, I concur.  Westmoreland didn’t lose the war in Vietnam any more than Creighton Abrams could have won it with alternative tactics.  Tactics, techniques and procedures don’t replace strategy, and they certainly don’t replace policy.

The “better” general in Iraq didn’t win Iraq.  As we have [briefly] discussed, the hard work of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps was done before and during the tenure of all the generals who commanded the campaign.  It was a matter of time, endurance and professionalism by the U.S. military.  To the extent that we attained success in Iraq, it is attributable to the U.S. military.  To the extent that we failed in Iraq, it is attributable to lack of vision or clear policy by the administration(s), e.g., the failure to fight Iraq as a regional war, the support of corrupt Iranian apparatchiks like Nouri al-Maliki, the failure to secure the borders, the engagement of protracted nation-building, etc.

Afghanistan is lost due to the same reasons.  I generally give the U.S. military more credit and attribute more capabilities to them than does Gian.  But one thing the U.S. military cannot pull off is replacement for national policy.  Gian reminds us again that seeking out military heroes to do just this is a distinctly American pastime, but it is mistaken and dangerous, at least for the thinking men among us.

* Thanks to  Wes Morgan and Andrew Lubin for assisting me to get the Marine Corps units and dates correct regarding operations in 2003 and 2004.
 
Col Gentile is known as the heel of contemporary COIN and has had many well publicized battles with John Nagl on the utility of FM 3-24.  I must say (if it is not evident) that I find Gentile's arguments to be, most of the time, more convincing.

Col Gentile posts at the Small Wars Journal and is currently working on a book on Westmoreland and Abrams; obviously, he will have some different conclusions than Sorely.
 
Infanteer said:
What you are describing is Canada's part of the campaign circa 2009-2011.  Once TFK was augmented with U.S. units and other U.S. formations took control of other districts in Kandahar Province, the Canadian AOR shrunk to Panjwayi/Dand and, by 2010, Panjwayi alone.  What's more, the size of the land-owners (the BG) increased tremendously - by 2010, the Battlegroup was responsible for Panjwayi and had 5 Infantry Companies and a Tank Squadron.

Was it any more effective?  The jury is still out, but I've seen some promising tactical assessments.  One item that bears some research was the Canadian effort to partition Panjwayi off through obstacles to control movement.  I think it was generally regarded as effective and supports my suspicion that the key to any COIN effort is population control (which FM 3-24 ignores and any serious talk of Afghanistan has missed).

Excellent to hear. My last trip was in 09 and we were still on the river run with 300. Great to hear things changed; and really glad to hear the idea of population control was tossed around in the later days. Heck know's we brought it up and war gamed it in the bunk some nights of what "we would do".

IRT the population control we thought it was important as when we would go into a village we had no way of knowing a guy was local or not. A few times our terps would tip us off that this guy is talking weird and not from around here. A ID with a data base would have allowed us to see who wasn't from the village and note and track peoples movements. Would have been good for BDA ident from a int perspective to see what families were causing us the most issues or villages etc.
 
Infanteer said:
As I typed this, Tango2Bravo premtped me.  His post says it all.  There are, when you boil it down 4 essential problems in Afghanistan.  These problems won't necessarily lead to a 'humiliating defeat', but they very likely won't make progress possible.

1.  A constitution that centralized state power in a state that has traditionally seen power devolved to the lowest levels of tribal governance.  This essentially 'redistributed' powers in the Afghan state to the victors of a civil war, the Northern Alliance.  We, in typically Western fashion, have created a power structure in Afghanistan completely antithetical to the way the people have viewed their relationship with the state for the last 2 centuries;

2.  Seeing the feasibility of the state as it currently exists is nil, the Afghan government has read the writing on the wall - note Karzai's planned exit date coincides with NATOs exit.  In the meantime, what has transpired is a bit of a farce, with an international military force driving the counter-insurgency effort and the government of the nation critiquing its actions every month.  The most basic idea of COIN should be the flag test, coined by a smart SF Col over on the SWC, which argues that by going to a nation's capital and looking for the highest flag pole, one can identify who has the lead in COIN - everyone else is doing FID.  Instead, when it comes to strategy, we see an ISAF cart driving a Kabul horse.

3.  International do-gooders have not helped.  In becoming a 'cause celebre', a tremendous amount of money has flowed into Afghanistan from governments and NGOs.  The problem is that there is no accountability or oversight and the unclass material from CJIATF Shafafiyet points to the glaringly obvious problem that the billions of dollars pumped into the country fuel the conflict - it is simply uneconomical for most of the regional players to want peace at this point; and

4.  All this is overlayed with a military strategy driven by the tactics of clear, hold, build.  The problem with this is that the Pashtun are infamously polite and notoriously xenophobic.  If centralized Kabul governance gets Pashtun tribal society in a tizzy (as it has in the past - see 1978 and 1929) how is enforcing centralized Kabul governance by putting a western soldier and his heavy armoured vehicle in every village on the AfPak border going to help things? 

Notice all these problems are concerned with policy and strategy.  No amount of good tactics, regardless of what contemporary pop-centric COIN tells you, will fix this.

On the subject of tactics, the whole bit of this lone U.S. soldier killing 17 Afghans that started the current round of teeth gnashing will have no real strategic effects, despite what some pundits trumpet.  It is a small event that, like Haditha that everyone in Iraq soon forgot about, will just be another blip in the narrative of this war.

Well enunciated on basically all parts. We failed to come up with an overarching strategy for developing governance that fit the context. And by throwing money at problem areas, we encouraged more problems. For all that COIN principles, at a high level, make sense, there's no real unity of effort, and no understanding of the environment to make it work effectively. And there's no willingness to develop those things, it seems like.
 
Every day the Taliban are dying in Afghanistan and not over here is a victory for us.


And by throwing money at problem areas, we encouraged more problems

That's what shot us in the foot. They realized if they create problems then we will pay them to fix it.
 
Grimaldus said:
Every day the Taliban are dying in Afghanistan and not over here is a victory for us.

You can kill almost an infinite number of them and accomplish absolutely nothing. It's not quite that simple. Nor is there any particular threat that the Taliban would be dying over here, though there might be in the case of the various other organizations here that will scramble for power in the vacuum that might well ensue.
 
Kill enough of them and their command/training structure and you're left with an enemy with vastly reduced capabilities and skills.  The backyard bandits while not eliminated outright will be content with targeting our troops over there and not be putting together plots to blow shit up over here.

TV nailed it. We won WW2 by leveling cities and giving them a panoramic view of hell with front row seats.
 
Grimaldus said:
Every day the Taliban are dying in Afghanistan and not over here is a victory for us.

The Taliban have never been involved "over here".  Time to hit the history books.
 
Grimaldus said:
We won WW2 by leveling cities and giving them a panoramic view of hell with front row seats.

So we should have carpet-bombed Afghanistan ?
 
CDN Aviator said:
So we should have carpet-bombed Afghanistan ?
Personally I say "No".  That is one solution however.  Maybe better to ask, would that have been effective and worth the blowback?
 
Infanteer said:
The Taliban have never been involved "over here".  Time to hit the history books.

And you think now that we kicked that hornets nest they'll let bygones be bygones?


CDN Aviator said:
So we should have carpet-bombed Afghanistan ?
Did we carpet bomb Germany? Or did we pound them until they said okay enough your dicks bigger you win. 

In Afghanistan we can't engage a guy digging on the side of the road at 3 am burying something suspicious because we don't have PID. An American pilot I was speaking with 2 weeks ago told me a story how a bunch of insurgents laid down on top of their gats for 3 hours while pilots circled them. Pilots couldn't engage because they didn't have PID on weapons. Once they were bingo fuel and left the insurgents got up and hit a COP down the road.

That's no way to fight a war.

Are we going to try and win the hearts and minds of Iranians next?
 
This migt be an interesting reply to Grimadus

First reproduced under the faiir dealing provision of the copyright act
http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/28/irregular-math/#more-69992

Irregular Math
Seth Jones, a counter-insurgency expert now at the Rand Corp., and before that at the Pentagon, testifying at a House Armed Services subcommittee hearing on Tuesday:

Us: “Today in Afghanistan we have about 432,000 counterinsurgency forces, we’ve spent over $100 billion per year…and deployed a range of sophisticated platforms and systems.”

Them: “The Taliban and its allies, on the other hand, have deployed between 20,000 and 40,000 forces…and had revenues of between $100 million and $200 million per year.”

Bottom Line: Personnel “ratio of nearly 11-to-1 in favor of counterinsurgents” and financial “ratio of about 500-to-1 in favor of counterinsurgents….Yet the Taliban’s ability to utilize limited resources and sustain a prolonged insurgency, I do think, highlights some of the challenges we face on irregular warfare.”
Read more: http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/28/irregular-math/#more-69992#ixzz1qRAyd2Qi

Summary - If these force ratios haven't worked out what will.

I dont't think Carpet bombing a stone age people back to the sand age is going to work very well.

My second point may be a bit more interesting. I looked up Dragon''s Teeth

This from Wiki ;
Cadmus was the bringer of literacy and civilization, killed the sacred dragon that guarded the spring of Ares. The goddess Athena told him to sow the teeth, from which sprang a group of ferocious warriors called the spartoi. He threw a precious jewel into the midst of the warriors, who turned on each other in an attempt to seize the stone for themselves. The five survivors joined with Cadmus to found the city of Thebes"

Perhaps the West needs to inject a Precious stone into the Taliban mix.
 
Grimaldus said:
Did we carpet bomb Germany? Or did we pound them until they said okay enough your dicks bigger you win. 

Go explain that to Hamburg or Dresden........
 
CDN Aviator said:
Go explain that to Hamburg or Dresden........

I mistook your reference. I thought you implied indiscriminate bombing of the country as a whole which doesn't serve a purpose. Wiping out a city that's a hotbed for the enemy I do agree with, or with your examples, when it's time to stop dicking around and and finish the fight.
 
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