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IR Postings [Merged]

BeyondTheNow

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Simian Turner said:
Moe, not sure if your are being sarcastic? I would think that your internet usage (data requirement) should certainly decrease and the number of tvs that you can watch at one time should go down as well.  If it is a two person household and one person is on IR then in theory the decrease should be 50%.

PMedMoe said:
I'm not being sarcastic (yes, I know, shocking). 

If my cable/internet/phone package at my primary residence costs X amount of dollars, that amount isn't going to be lower because one less person is using the internet or cable. Data usage perhaps, but not the basic bill.  For example, in Toronto, my package was about $70/month.  That amount didn't decrease when I was away from home.

Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying.  :dunno:

Yup, same for most. People's bill is determined by the package they selected when they signed up for said service. The same amount will be due each month regardless of whether customer utilized full allowable service (x amount of GBs, unlimited, etc.) or not. The bill will change if customer exceeds package amount, but it certainly doesn't drop if the maximum isn't used. If there's such a plan that exists in the reverse, or even one that allows carry-over of amounts not used from month before, I've never heard of such a set-up.
 

McG

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Simian Turner said:
Moe, not sure if your are being sarcastic? I would think that your internet usage (data requirement) should certainly decrease and the number of tvs that you can watch at one time should go down as well.  If it is a two person household and one person is on IR then in theory the decrease should be 50%.
Does not work that way. Even if you reduce your internet monthly data subscription by 50%, the reduction to your bill is not 50%.
And reduction in cable costs? You can expect 0% savings there because it is not pay per volume.
 

hattrick72

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garb811 said:
As always, the best source of information is an actual SME as opposed to anonymous pers on the internet.  You should have had a talk with your local IR clerk prior to making a decision to go on IR and, if you haven't had a meeting with your current IR clerk as to what your actual benefits are, you need to do that ASAP.

Nobody here is able to definitively answer the "whys" you are asking, or give you any nuggets of hidden benefits you aren't being told about.  Unfortunately, IR isn't the cash cow it was in the past but at least it is still an option to get some of your expenses covered.

Got it. SME here says only connection charges are covered. Connection charges are covered on a move so I am not sure how that is an additional expense. I did not talk to the clerk in Halifax my mistake for sure. I guess I am looking for consistency, what are other bases doing? Hoping someone on IR at another base can chime in on what actual expenses are being covered.

The SME here also said that if I was on the economy the base would cover basic cable costs. It is word for word the same under the heading Private Accommodation and Public Accommodation for separation expense entitlements for additional costs.

My other question is who is the overall SME in Ottawa. I have looked through MILPERS Instruction on IR and CBI but I don't see anything definitive. Is there a FAQ on the CM site someone is aware of or other regs I can read. The clerk here has been more than cordial so I am happy with their service, there is really only so much they can do when given direction. If I grieve their denial of expense I would like to have a full understanding of the policy so I don't waste anyone's time.
 

garb811

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hattrick72 said:
Got it. SME here says only connection charges are covered. Connection charges are covered on a move so I am not sure how that is an additional expense. I did not talk to the clerk in Halifax my mistake for sure. I guess I am looking for consistency, what are other bases doing? Hoping someone on IR at another base can chime in on what actual expenses are being covered.

The SME here also said that if I was on the economy the base would cover basic cable costs. It is word for word the same under the heading Private Accommodation and Public Accommodation for separation expense entitlements for additional costs.

My other question is who is the overall SME in Ottawa. I have looked through MILPERS Instruction on IR and CBI but I don't see anything definitive. Is there a FAQ on the CM site someone is aware of or other regs I can read. The clerk here has been more than cordial so I am happy with their service, there is really only so much they can do when given direction. If I grieve their denial of expense I would like to have a full understanding of the policy so I don't waste anyone's time.
It's a national policy, all bases should be reimbursing the exact same thing for the exact same situation as contrary to what you seem to think, it is very clearly defined in CBI CBI 208.997 – Separation Expense.

208.997(7) (Amount – Quarters) If quarters are available at public expense, the amount of SE is limited to:

    quarters at public expense;
    actual and reasonable monthly parking expenses, not exceeding the amount of the monthly charge referred to in paragraph (4) of article 208.50 (Deductions for the Provision of Single Quarters and Covered Residential Parking) of the QR&O;
    (Repealed by TB, effective 1 February 2013); and
    actual and reasonable basic internet, basic cable and cellular or land-line telephone connection expenses.

208.997(8) (Amount – Private Accommodations) If quarters are unavailable at public expense and the member occupies a private accommodation, the amount of SE is limited to:

    private accommodation expenses, the monthly amount of which does not exceed the monthly charge under paragraph (1) of article 208.50 (Deductions for the Provision of Single Quarters and Covered Residential Parking) of the QR&O for a single quarter Type H1, rated very good;
    (Repealed by TB, effective 1 February 2013);
    actual and reasonable monthly parking expenses, up to a maximum of $100.00; and
    actual and reasonable basic internet, basic cable and cellular or land-line telephone connection expenses.

208.997(9) (Amount – Non-Commercial Accommodations And Family Housing) If quarters are unavailable at public expense and the member occupies a non-commercial accommodation or family housing, the amount of SE is limited to:

    actual and reasonable expenses for non-commercial accommodations or family housing, utilities and furniture rental, the monthly amount of which do not exceed the applicable rate in the table to this instruction;
    (Repealed by TB, effective 1 February 2013);
    actual and reasonable parking expenses, up to a monthly maximum of $100.00; and
    actual and reasonable basic internet, basic cable and cellular or land-line telephone connection expenses.

208.997(10) (Amount – Commercial Accommodations) If quarters are unavailable at public expense and the member occupies a commercial accommodation, the amount of SE is limited to:

    actual and reasonable commercial accommodation expenses, the monthly amount of which do not exceed the applicable rate in the table to this instruction;
    (Repealed by TB, effective 1 February 2013); and
    actual and reasonable parking expenses, up to a monthly maximum of $100.00.
 

Granted, there are some differences in what is permitted.  For example, some bases have surplus single quarters and require all pers on IR to live in shacks while other bases lack single quarters so the policy is that everyone on IR has to live out but as for what expenses are covered via SE, none of that differs. 
 

hattrick72

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garb811 said:
It's a national policy, all bases should be reimbursing the exact same thing for the exact same situation as contrary to what you seem to think, it is very clearly defined in CBI CBI 208.997 – Separation Expense.
 

Granted, there are some differences in what is permitted.  For example, some bases have surplus single quarters and require all pers on IR to live in shacks while other bases lack single quarters so the policy is that everyone on IR has to live out but as for what expenses are covered via SE, none of that differs.

actual and reasonable basic internet, basic cable and cellular or land-line telephone connection expenses.

What does that mean, it doesn't seem clear to me. Does that mean seperation expense
1. only covers the connection expenses for cable, internet, cell or land line; or
2. Covers monthly cable and internet. Connection expense for cell or land line?

Also at the top of the CBI it says the minister may approve actual and reasonable costs that are not included in the instruction. How do I get an expense added, is it through orderly room to minister or through CM to minister?

 

garb811

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hattrick72 said:
actual and reasonable basic internet, basic cable and cellular or land-line telephone connection expenses.

What does that mean, it doesn't seem clear to me. Does that mean seperation expense
1. only covers the connection expenses for cable, internet, cell or land line; or
2. Covers monthly cable and internet. Connection expense for cell or land line?

Also at the top of the CBI it says the minister may approve actual and reasonable costs that are not included in the instruction. How do I get an expense added, is it through orderly room to minister or through CM to minister?
It says your first interpretation.

Basic cable connection
Basic internet connect
Cell phone OR land line connection, but not both.

Ref the Minister’s discretion, you have to read the entirety of that paragraph, not just pick the part you like. The key is:

...and that are not specifically provided for in this section, but only if such reimbursement would be equitable and consistent with the purpose of this section.

Items that will be covered as a separation expense are specifically listed in the applicable section.

 

hattrick72

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garb811 said:
It says your first interpretation.

Basic cable connection
Basic internet connect
Cell phone OR land line connection, but not both.

Ref the Minister’s discretion, you have to read the entirety of that paragraph, not just pick the part you like. The key is:

Items that will be covered as a separation expense are specifically listed in the applicable section.

Was just paraphrasing not picking the part I like. BGRS says the following:

Benefits for  unaccompanied  moves are generally  the same as those contained in Parts  1  and 2, except  for  these  entitlements, which have  limitations  or enhancements: •  Returning from  Operations  –  Posted to a  location  other  than  the (D)HG&E  location; •  Returning  to  previous  place  of  duty for  release  purposes; •  TNL; •  Shipment  of  vehicle;  and • HHT. Continued  on  next  page 110

Sundry expenses are not mentioned which include connection fees. So if the connection fees are covered by BGRS on IR, I don't see how cable and internet connection is an added expense that needs to be covered by 208.997. which is what lead/leads me to believe it leans more towards the monthly fee and not doubling expenses. The only argument I can come up with against myself is I'm treating internet and cable as a personal entitlement not a luxury I can choose to have or not. But the personal entitlement comes down to keeping the same standard of living prior to being seperating for military reasons.

Your opinion on where I may be going wrong is much appreciated. Just added the party I was paraphrasing and why I would ask for who to put into minister for approval.

208.801(2) (Ministerial approval of relocation expenses) The Minister may approve reimbursement of all or part of the expenses reasonably incurred by an officer or noncommissioned member or their dependants that are directly related to, or that arise directly out of, the member's relocation and that are not specifically provided for in this section, but only if such reimbursement would be equitable and consistent with the purpose of this section.

After hour child care for child when spouse works rotating evening, night, weekend shifts that are day night and evening. Not a military spouse. Would this be claimable up to the daily maximum and match the definition I paraphrased from 208.801(2)? Cost will be $12 an hour which would be much higher than a $30 a day allotment "paraphrasing amount from memory it may be less"
 

Scoobie Newbie

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Does anyone have any insight into residing at a non-commercial residence while on IR such as a friends house where they will rent out a room to you?  I’m curious as to if it’s possible and what the differences are financially to that of a commercial property.  Thank you.
 

Halifax Tar

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Sheep Dog AT said:
Does anyone have any insight into residing at a non-commercial residence while on IR such as a friends house where they will rent out a room to you?  I’m curious as to if it’s possible and what the differences are financially to that of a commercial property.  Thank you.

I believe that there are maximum standards that the IR program will pay for, example 1 bedroom, +study ect ect ect.  But I don't know if there is a minimum, as in just renting a room.  I will be watching this.  Good question SDAT.


 

garb811

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I remember seeing flyers on one base where they were advertising a single bedroom in a house as being, "perfect for someone on IR."

Best bet is to simply call the IR clerks at the location you are wondering about and they will let you know. You can't live out at all bases; if there is R&Q available, you can be ordered to live in yet other bases will not make R&Q avail for members on IR.
 

rbw902

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Sheep Dog AT said:
Does anyone have any insight into residing at a non-commercial residence while on IR such as a friends house where they will rent out a room to you?  I’m curious as to if it’s possible and what the differences are financially to that of a commercial property.  Thank you.

Check out CBI 208.997. What you are describing would fall under the definition of private accommodation rather than non-commercial accommodation. Reimbursement is limited to "the monthly charge under paragraph (1) of article 208.50 (Deductions for the Provision of Single Quarters and Covered Residential Parking) of the QR&O for a single quarter Type H1, rated very good", which is not the same as the city-based rent limit.
 

Eye In The Sky

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How does one get approved for IR for 7 years....I know a guy who was asking for his 2nd year and told it wasn't going to happen.
 

Navy_Pete

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Probably easier when your supervisor that supports it is the CDS, and you already have 30+ years in, on top of being a flag officer?

Two years of IR costs are probably equivalent to the average cost move one way (or more, depending on the value of the house being sold).  Said he's heading back to Edmonton were his wife is, so even at 7 years, probably still comparable to two cost moves for a leafer.  Still seems pretty excessive, but guessing it might be a case of 'this year is the last year' that kept getting extended? :dunno:

I know people complain about some things like this being perks that flag officers and senior NCOs have more access to, but on the flip side, they generally have far more responsibility, and are way underpaid if you compare it to an equivalent position in a 75k person private company, so don't think it's really that unfair. Most of the people at those ranks basically gave up most of their lives and are massive workaholics, and not a good example of how to achieve a work/life balance. Much easier to do when you are lower down the food chain.

(caveat, general comment, not in any way suggesting EITS's winger shouldn't get a second year, I only got a second year myself because I was deployed with my stuff sitting in a storage locker and jumped on a plane after turnover was done once we got back, so there was no real cost. It's pretty case by case.)
 

Halifax Tar

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I spent 4 years on IR from Halifax to Kingston (CFJSR/Base/RMC).  That was tough.  Missed the first 2 years of my daughters life.  I cant imagine 7.  Hats off to you General.  I truly hope he enjoys his very well earned retirement.

Mine only ended because succession planning and a new CM decided, thankfully, I needed to sail again so I can continue on to CPO ranks.
 

ballz

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Eye In The Sky said:
How does one get approved for IR for 7 years....I know a guy who was asking for his 2nd year and told it wasn't going to happen.

The CDS approved the extra 2 years.... at the 5-year mark, it would have been absolutely silly to pay for a cost move there only to have to do another cost move back to Edmonton 1-3 years later when he retired.... far cheaper to keep him on IR. Even if it was considered when he first got posted to Ottawa, it would probably be cheaper to keep him on IR for 7 years, although I doubt it was thought of at that time.
 

Kat Stevens

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IR was probably cheaper than a 7 KM move, let alone a cross country one.
 

Eye In The Sky

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So, obviously then, every CAF member can expect to receive IR and IR allowances for 7 years;  that's awesome!

And, who can argue against 7 years of IR allowances, the precedent has been set.  Right?
 

garb811

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Eye In The Sky said:
How does one get approved for IR for 7 years....I know a guy who was asking for his 2nd year and told it wasn't going to happen.
Not to further derail this down an IR siding but...why? Unless the circumstances for the initial IR approval materially changed (ie. the member had asked for IR because their kid was entering Grade 12 and they had successfully graduated) what were the supposed grounds to deny the extension? That's certainly redressable and winnable, IMHO. Let's be honest, the current policy about what is IR worthy is broad enough that it's basically a rubber stamp, at least in my experiences.
 

Sub_Guy

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If someone wants to live on IR for seven years then power to them.  IR sucks.  It is not a cash cow, people aren’t making money sitting around on IR.

I don’t see an issue with this at all, would it have been cheaper to move his family from Edmonton to Ottawa then back to Edmonton?  Probably not.

I think if the CAF is going retain folks they need to drop this suck it up princess and get moving attitude.

I wish nothing but the best for the General in his upcoming retirement. 
 
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