G8/G20 June 2010 Protest Watch
- Thread starter The Bread Guy
- Start date
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As a resident of Toronto, and probably one of only a small handful who believe in paying any cost when it comes to protection from idiots (especially those dressed in black), I think that the police did a perfect job on the weekend.
It really was a damned if you do something (like they did on Sunday - which I think was fair and even handed), or damned if you don't do something (Saturday - which I also think was fair given that the idiotic protestors kept changing back into civilian clothes after setting cars ablaze).
Kudos to all security forces involved, and anyone who is requesting a "formal inquiry" needs something along the lines of a frontal labotomy to ensure that they have some semblence of a brain left after being indoctrinated by a very aggressive left wing theology.
On a side note...
Thanks to the Griff that flew over my home at about 12:30pm EST today heading east - most appreciated!
It really was a damned if you do something (like they did on Sunday - which I think was fair and even handed), or damned if you don't do something (Saturday - which I also think was fair given that the idiotic protestors kept changing back into civilian clothes after setting cars ablaze).
Kudos to all security forces involved, and anyone who is requesting a "formal inquiry" needs something along the lines of a frontal labotomy to ensure that they have some semblence of a brain left after being indoctrinated by a very aggressive left wing theology.
On a side note...
Thanks to the Griff that flew over my home at about 12:30pm EST today heading east - most appreciated!
- Reaction score
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....there's always these hot spots:
The "Toronto 900" must be a WHOLE lot less by now - but why let facts get in the way of a great slogan/meme?
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Sexual Abuse? FUCK RIGHT OFF!
As for the "heavy handed" approach. Well, when thugs wish to take over, they resort to stuff like this:
Our response should look like this:
And not like this:
Even Pierre Trudeau, one of our most liberal Prime Ministers "gets it" when it comes to the danger that thugs expose to our society:
(From the famous impromtu interview during the October Crisis of 1970)
As for the "heavy handed" approach. Well, when thugs wish to take over, they resort to stuff like this:
Our response should look like this:
And not like this:
Even Pierre Trudeau, one of our most liberal Prime Ministers "gets it" when it comes to the danger that thugs expose to our society:
(From the famous impromtu interview during the October Crisis of 1970)
- Reaction score
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Yep, say what you want about Trudeau, he did come up with some good comments. I've always liked that one; "Just watch me."
Watch the interview here: http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_unrest/clips/610/
Watch the interview here: http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_unrest/clips/610/
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Technoviking said:
We had "Swastika Riots" right here in Toronto at Christie Pits - Willowvale Park- on the Bloor Line:
"While groups of Jewish and Gentile youths wielded fists and clubs in a series of violent scraps for possession of a white flag bearing a swastika symbol at Willowvale Park last night, a crowd of more than 10,000 citizens, excited by cries of ‘Heil Hitler’ became suddenly a disorderly mob and surged wildly about the park and surrounding streets, trying to gain a view of the actual combatants, which soon developed in violence and intensity of racial feeling into one of the worst free-for-alls ever seen in the city.
Scores were injured, many requiring medical and hospital attention... Heads were opened, eyes blackened and bodies thumped and battered as literally dozens of persons, young or old, many of them non-combatant spectators, were injured more or less seriously by a variety of ugly weapons in the hands of wild-eyed and irresponsible young hoodlums, both Jewish and Gentile".:
Toronto Star
August 17, 1933
G20:
"Over 900 people were arrested, the biggest mass arrests ever in Canada,"
Prior to this weekend, the biggest mass arrests in Canadian history were the FLQ Crisis in 1970. 497 individuals were arrested or detained.
Followed by "Operation Soap" February 5, 1981: "Metro policemen, many armed with crowbars and hammers, swooped down on four downtown Toronto steambaths last night and charged 253 men with being found-ins at bawdy houses." "An additional 20 men were charged as keepers of common bawdy houses." Two were charged with "buggery".
"Operation Soap" Toronto: 1981:
Setting fires and breaking streetcar windows:
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/rights_freedoms/topics/599-3239/
The Star in those days named names, ages and home addresses of those charged.
"These evolved into Toronto's current Gay Pride Week, which is now one of the world's largest gay pride festivals"
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So essentially, I owe all my freedoms to the military? Fair enough. Why weren't you protecting our freedoms at the the G20 summit?
I guess the next time there is a sports event related riot, causing damage, we will expect the same amount of cracking down from the police?
I did not say I have any of this kind of martial or fighting training.
""No one should be so naive as to think these people were there for the purpose of lawful protest," Blair said during a Toronto news conference."
Wow, what a sweeping statement. Did he just say none of the protesters were there peacefully?
The way you give the quote, that is how I would interpret it.
Interestingly, after the incident with activist being killed trying to bring aid to Gaza, evidence wasmanufactured found that proved they were all violent terrorists (therefore not deserving of human rights, and legitimizing breaking international law and opening fire on these ships, BEFORE boarding them, during a night operation), also. This shows wide use of certain tactics, in case this is not clear, and that these tactics have proven effective in general, and have been refined through practice. But my simple math says 75 (supposedly anarchists, even though most self-described anarchists don't even know what it means, let alone the people using it here) does not equal 900; even if you try to factor in a few agents provacateur, who, I'm guessing, did not get detained, and on which point people on this forum merely applauded, rather than debated.
It's interesting how someone said OCAP don't have the right to protest, because there was a military funeral procession... and suggested that EVERYTHING that was going on, all these protests, simply boiled down to trying to disrupt the funeral. I understand how that may be what is important to you, but in doing so, in one sweeping statement, you dismiss the legitimate protests of more than 50000 people, gathered from all over, including outside the country who knew nothing about that, many of whom did not know each other before they got there, and many who probably don't know each other still, unless they shared a cell, perhaps. But yep, of course its all about you. The activists are out to get YOU, probably know you name and number, posting private things back and forth behind the scenes to their friends on various forums. Because activists like to work in secret, and wouldn't want anyone to know about their issues? Strength in isolation? For clarity, I am using sarcasm here. As a minor related note, it was a major discussion point that, while police are normally legally required to give name and badge number, none of this was available from the ISU forces who were doing this; nor was it given when asked.
It is nice to know that police chief Blair has encouraged the g20 security to investigate itself.
I would not define this as a fair and impartial inquiry, however.
semper fi. kinda means you're not afraid of anything, right? Like saying it how it really is, and not being afraid your buddies won't have your back if you disagree with the 'dominant paradigm' of folk in the military, the 'right wing theology' and bravado, the mythology that boys don't (or shouldn't?) cry, or get broken. I know people in the military too, and regardless of whether they are willing to speak their minds on some issues with 'their buddies' there, I know they are capable of thinking. Even free thinking, where you think about things, and in ways, other than simply how you are told. Practicing what we know, praxis, is not always easy though.
My intention for posting was not an attack on the military, but it seems the post since my last people have mostly only either applauded the ISU actions, or ignored those points entirely, when not feebly scrabbling for links to support police chief Blair's glorious party. Police chief Blair has his own history which I will leave out. In essence the argument I am hearing is that either all the protesters and media who are talking about this AND WERE THERE are lying and fabricating evidence of hastily uploaded unedited videos, or the government and other officials are lying; and with this, I agree.
Someone is lying. Someone is supporting the lie. I am not aware of any oaths of journalistic integrity that are given, requiring media to be factual, or specifically laws that would arrest those journalists for not being so, although part of this comes simply from a court case in the US involving investigative journalists who investigated the cancer causes effects of posilac, including through the milk, a bovine growth hormone monsanto produces. Fox news was threatened with lawsuits; the investigative journalists were fired; in the suit for wrongful dismissal, based on suppressing this important health evidence, the courts ruled that news was 'entertainment' and not required to be 'factual'. So I hope you find this 'entertaining', but more importantly I hope you are able to find some truth in it, somewhere, that maybe you would not find elsewhere easily.
I say this in part, because I wonder if the most vocal voices on this forum, in fact represent the majority. I do not know, but I choose to believe it doesn't not, and hope some are willing to consider other possibilities, because in the end it may be the difference between the military and other security agencies in Canada helping to GIVE Canadians freedom, - or to take it away.
Thanks for patiently reading through my frustrations, many generically directed toward what I see as military mentality. My personal experiences have biased me, not necessarily in an untruthful way, but sometimes to react emotionally instead of to focus on the issues, and on solutions, and the people who continue to follow this thread may well think it is important, and I don't want to imply our Forces care any less about Canada or Canadians, even if we have different ways of going about doing it (and serve our country in different ways).
I know there are people who put themselves through a lot to do what they believe is right; that perhaps most Canadians will never get the opportunity to know about. That doesn't invalidate my anger, or what I think is wrong with the system; but I am duly acknowledging that there is another side to the story, and people, including activists, sometimes are quick to blame, without understanding circumstances. But that is what forums are for; people can talk about things, and hear each other's view points, and maybe not take our assumptions about the world for granted so easily. (Including my own.)
It is ok to disagree. It is ok to let people make up their own minds. I hope compassion for the suffering of others is one of the values people use in making their judgments on this issue.
I guess the next time there is a sports event related riot, causing damage, we will expect the same amount of cracking down from the police?
I did not say I have any of this kind of martial or fighting training.
""No one should be so naive as to think these people were there for the purpose of lawful protest," Blair said during a Toronto news conference."
Wow, what a sweeping statement. Did he just say none of the protesters were there peacefully?
The way you give the quote, that is how I would interpret it.
Interestingly, after the incident with activist being killed trying to bring aid to Gaza, evidence was
It's interesting how someone said OCAP don't have the right to protest, because there was a military funeral procession... and suggested that EVERYTHING that was going on, all these protests, simply boiled down to trying to disrupt the funeral. I understand how that may be what is important to you, but in doing so, in one sweeping statement, you dismiss the legitimate protests of more than 50000 people, gathered from all over, including outside the country who knew nothing about that, many of whom did not know each other before they got there, and many who probably don't know each other still, unless they shared a cell, perhaps. But yep, of course its all about you. The activists are out to get YOU, probably know you name and number, posting private things back and forth behind the scenes to their friends on various forums. Because activists like to work in secret, and wouldn't want anyone to know about their issues? Strength in isolation? For clarity, I am using sarcasm here. As a minor related note, it was a major discussion point that, while police are normally legally required to give name and badge number, none of this was available from the ISU forces who were doing this; nor was it given when asked.
It is nice to know that police chief Blair has encouraged the g20 security to investigate itself.
I would not define this as a fair and impartial inquiry, however.
semper fi. kinda means you're not afraid of anything, right? Like saying it how it really is, and not being afraid your buddies won't have your back if you disagree with the 'dominant paradigm' of folk in the military, the 'right wing theology' and bravado, the mythology that boys don't (or shouldn't?) cry, or get broken. I know people in the military too, and regardless of whether they are willing to speak their minds on some issues with 'their buddies' there, I know they are capable of thinking. Even free thinking, where you think about things, and in ways, other than simply how you are told. Practicing what we know, praxis, is not always easy though.
My intention for posting was not an attack on the military, but it seems the post since my last people have mostly only either applauded the ISU actions, or ignored those points entirely, when not feebly scrabbling for links to support police chief Blair's glorious party. Police chief Blair has his own history which I will leave out. In essence the argument I am hearing is that either all the protesters and media who are talking about this AND WERE THERE are lying and fabricating evidence of hastily uploaded unedited videos, or the government and other officials are lying; and with this, I agree.
Someone is lying. Someone is supporting the lie. I am not aware of any oaths of journalistic integrity that are given, requiring media to be factual, or specifically laws that would arrest those journalists for not being so, although part of this comes simply from a court case in the US involving investigative journalists who investigated the cancer causes effects of posilac, including through the milk, a bovine growth hormone monsanto produces. Fox news was threatened with lawsuits; the investigative journalists were fired; in the suit for wrongful dismissal, based on suppressing this important health evidence, the courts ruled that news was 'entertainment' and not required to be 'factual'. So I hope you find this 'entertaining', but more importantly I hope you are able to find some truth in it, somewhere, that maybe you would not find elsewhere easily.
I say this in part, because I wonder if the most vocal voices on this forum, in fact represent the majority. I do not know, but I choose to believe it doesn't not, and hope some are willing to consider other possibilities, because in the end it may be the difference between the military and other security agencies in Canada helping to GIVE Canadians freedom, - or to take it away.
Thanks for patiently reading through my frustrations, many generically directed toward what I see as military mentality. My personal experiences have biased me, not necessarily in an untruthful way, but sometimes to react emotionally instead of to focus on the issues, and on solutions, and the people who continue to follow this thread may well think it is important, and I don't want to imply our Forces care any less about Canada or Canadians, even if we have different ways of going about doing it (and serve our country in different ways).
I know there are people who put themselves through a lot to do what they believe is right; that perhaps most Canadians will never get the opportunity to know about. That doesn't invalidate my anger, or what I think is wrong with the system; but I am duly acknowledging that there is another side to the story, and people, including activists, sometimes are quick to blame, without understanding circumstances. But that is what forums are for; people can talk about things, and hear each other's view points, and maybe not take our assumptions about the world for granted so easily. (Including my own.)
It is ok to disagree. It is ok to let people make up their own minds. I hope compassion for the suffering of others is one of the values people use in making their judgments on this issue.
- Reaction score
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- 1,160
Err, you DO know the name of this site, right? Of course there's a military mentality here. Not to your liking? Someone will be along shortly to guide you gently toward the exit, I hope.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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At the risk of getting banned.maikeru333 said:
Go fuck yourself. Fucking troll.
Take your quotes out of context, use half-truths and please, name for me five groups who aired their opinions in Toronto, and what were their main points? Can't do it off the top of your head? That's a shame, really, because those thugs stole their chance to have their voices heard.
Read the National Defence Act and inform yourself on the use of the Canadian Forces in Canada. But, for now, I repeat:
Go Fuck yourself.
- Reaction score
- 2,585
- Points
- 1,260
Silly me - I can't resist.
Same for "alternative" media, so who do YOU believe?maikeru333 said:
This is a privately-operated forum, representing those who post to it - I'm guessing rabble.ca doesn't necessarily represent the majority, either.maikeru333 said:
The military and police don't "give" or "take" freedoms, they protect Canadians and enforce the rule of law, the laws that those you vote for made. Not happy with the rules? Have to deal with those who made them. You want police to enforce only some rules? If that's the case, what about if you end up being on the short end of the stick when the partial enforcement thing happens?maikeru333 said:
But only if they agree with you, right? If you don't like the "mentality" here, you don't have to read/post - I'm guessing nobody's forcing you to be here. You know what GTFO means?maikeru333 said:
:+1:Technoviking said:
maikeru333 said:
On the news......Police Chief Blair calls members of the black block anarchists a terrorist group.
And from what I read above
" Common Cause thus calls on all those concerned to take the fight back across the province and across the country."
and,
"We are putting you under surveillance!"
makes them exactly that......"terrorists"
Found the link: http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/top_cop_calls_rioters_terrorists_promises_review/4432f0fc
A
aesop081
Guest
maikeru333 said:
The military was certainly there, helping to protect everyone.
Nope, thats not what he said. You have to work on listening to the whole thing, not just the part you wish to take out of context.
Nothing done by the police or government would be considered as fair and impartial in your eyes, just admit it.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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maikeru333 said:
We did not have to, as the police did an outstanding job in protecting your rights and freedoms, namely the freedom to be free from black clad black bloc leftist terrorists.
Please, do not let the door hit you on your way out.
- Reaction score
- 5,603
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Ok, here it is. [according to Monk's world] 8)
Next time we have a prior knowledge that there will be protests the communication should go something like this.
We give you free reign to march, chant, and argue your point and you agree to be peaceful, however, be aware that anyone seen causing damage, bearing a weapon, etc. will be taken out by those folks up there on the roof line.
Any group that truly wishes to protest peacefully and truly wishes their voices be heard instead of the shouting and confusion that drowns out the message would have no problem agreeing to that.
Preset the rules, preset the standards, and carry them out...................
Next time we have a prior knowledge that there will be protests the communication should go something like this.
We give you free reign to march, chant, and argue your point and you agree to be peaceful, however, be aware that anyone seen causing damage, bearing a weapon, etc. will be taken out by those folks up there on the roof line.
Any group that truly wishes to protest peacefully and truly wishes their voices be heard instead of the shouting and confusion that drowns out the message would have no problem agreeing to that.
Preset the rules, preset the standards, and carry them out...................
- Reaction score
- 0
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Here's the thing that our new pet troll just does not get, nor is it ever likely to get. The violence visited on us by the black bloc thugs completely drowned out any visage of legitimate concerns the various groups had.
Yes, there are concerns involving the governments of the G8 and G20, and we have to find ways to get them listening. But at the end of the day, burning down the city is not the way to do it, and in point of fact, is guaranteed to cause all of us who are not domestic terrorists to turn a deaf ear towards you.
Point, find a peaceful way to protest. Protest groups, kick out the black bloc and do not let them in. Learn to communicate with the masses, instead of trying to intimidate the masses, because the police does work for the majority, not the minority (read, by way of elections, the government elected by the people has the power to create and amend laws which the police then enforce, ergo, they work for the majority).
The police are an extension of the people. They do not create laws, they enforce them. We all (all voters) have a hand in creating laws by voting for those who best represent us. This is the great thing about our system, we all have immense power to influence the system... Damn shame that the majority of citizens in our country choose to not exercise that immense power.
Yes, there are concerns involving the governments of the G8 and G20, and we have to find ways to get them listening. But at the end of the day, burning down the city is not the way to do it, and in point of fact, is guaranteed to cause all of us who are not domestic terrorists to turn a deaf ear towards you.
Point, find a peaceful way to protest. Protest groups, kick out the black bloc and do not let them in. Learn to communicate with the masses, instead of trying to intimidate the masses, because the police does work for the majority, not the minority (read, by way of elections, the government elected by the people has the power to create and amend laws which the police then enforce, ergo, they work for the majority).
The police are an extension of the people. They do not create laws, they enforce them. We all (all voters) have a hand in creating laws by voting for those who best represent us. This is the great thing about our system, we all have immense power to influence the system... Damn shame that the majority of citizens in our country choose to not exercise that immense power.
- Reaction score
- 1,379
- Points
- 1,260
If interested, here is another Toronto riot from 1992:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZtRw9II2s
Dozens were injured. One policeman was hit ( not seriously injured ) by glass from a Molotov cocktail on Yonge St., near Yorkville.
Got my T-shirt for that one, and Alice Cooper 1980 ( 18 people hospitalized, including 5 policemen ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzO-KTkh-4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXO-lBDadzc
There is a photo of a trashed OPP cruiser from a rock concert riot at Ontario Place the month before, but the photo was too large to load in the post.
Shows why the CNE is the better place for these things. Keeps trouble contained. It seems like it would to me, but I am not an expert. It is where the city wanted G20 located.
Caribana begins at Exhibition Place and moves west along Lakeshore Boulevard. They used to run it right through downtown.
Crowd-control fencing is up in the CNE-Lakeshore area for the Indy motor-race. There are security cameras all along the route.
Gay Pride parade is contained between Bloor and Gerard and east of Yonge.
G20 people roamed all over the place. Queen's Park, Yonge, Police H.Q. on College St., City Hall, University Ave., Simcoe, Dundas Square, Bay, King, Spadina....it was hard to keep up with them! At any rate, I don't think they came close to breaching the Convention Centre. ( Which I assume was their mission? ) They had to lock down the TTC, Eaton Centre and the downtown hospitals. They covered a lot of ground. They camped in Allan Gardens in the east ( always a popular OCAP rallying point ) , and had some sort of western command post - base camp, if you will, in Parkdale near Dufferin St. Perhaps under the Sunnyside overpasses? Lots of homeless people used to camp there before being cleared out in 1988 for the G7. They were an eyesore from the Gardiner Expressway. They really cleaned it up for President Reagan.
They had their meeting at the same convention centre as this time. I don't recall any protests, but I think I shuttled more winos out to the detox centres that week than any other. Did our bit to help "Showcase the city." In fact, they came up with a bizarre plan to solve that problem, but nothing ever came of it. I don't think I ever saw Toronto look more beautiful than it did that summer.:
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/international_politics/clips/17479/&ref=rss
I guess there was a protest for G7. The Berlin Wall was still up too. Same year Canada hosted the Winter Olympic games in Calgary. Soviet troops were still in Afganistan. G7 Toronto issued this statement on the subject: "We welcome the beginning of the Soviet withdrawal of its occupation troops from Afghanistan. It must be total and apply to the entire country. The Afghan people must be able to choose their government freely.”
It was a very different era than today.
"a four-meter-high steel and concrete fence surrounding the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, military helicopters hovering overhead and sharpshooters on Toronto’s rooftops. Total security costs for the summit were $29.3 million." The story says 200 people were arrested.
G7 security:
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/international_politics/clips/17471/&ref=rss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZtRw9II2s
Dozens were injured. One policeman was hit ( not seriously injured ) by glass from a Molotov cocktail on Yonge St., near Yorkville.
Got my T-shirt for that one, and Alice Cooper 1980 ( 18 people hospitalized, including 5 policemen ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzO-KTkh-4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXO-lBDadzc
There is a photo of a trashed OPP cruiser from a rock concert riot at Ontario Place the month before, but the photo was too large to load in the post.
Shows why the CNE is the better place for these things. Keeps trouble contained. It seems like it would to me, but I am not an expert. It is where the city wanted G20 located.
Caribana begins at Exhibition Place and moves west along Lakeshore Boulevard. They used to run it right through downtown.
Crowd-control fencing is up in the CNE-Lakeshore area for the Indy motor-race. There are security cameras all along the route.
Gay Pride parade is contained between Bloor and Gerard and east of Yonge.
G20 people roamed all over the place. Queen's Park, Yonge, Police H.Q. on College St., City Hall, University Ave., Simcoe, Dundas Square, Bay, King, Spadina....it was hard to keep up with them! At any rate, I don't think they came close to breaching the Convention Centre. ( Which I assume was their mission? ) They had to lock down the TTC, Eaton Centre and the downtown hospitals. They covered a lot of ground. They camped in Allan Gardens in the east ( always a popular OCAP rallying point ) , and had some sort of western command post - base camp, if you will, in Parkdale near Dufferin St. Perhaps under the Sunnyside overpasses? Lots of homeless people used to camp there before being cleared out in 1988 for the G7. They were an eyesore from the Gardiner Expressway. They really cleaned it up for President Reagan.
They had their meeting at the same convention centre as this time. I don't recall any protests, but I think I shuttled more winos out to the detox centres that week than any other. Did our bit to help "Showcase the city." In fact, they came up with a bizarre plan to solve that problem, but nothing ever came of it. I don't think I ever saw Toronto look more beautiful than it did that summer.:http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/international_politics/clips/17479/&ref=rss
I guess there was a protest for G7. The Berlin Wall was still up too. Same year Canada hosted the Winter Olympic games in Calgary. Soviet troops were still in Afganistan. G7 Toronto issued this statement on the subject: "We welcome the beginning of the Soviet withdrawal of its occupation troops from Afghanistan. It must be total and apply to the entire country. The Afghan people must be able to choose their government freely.”
It was a very different era than today.
"a four-meter-high steel and concrete fence surrounding the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, military helicopters hovering overhead and sharpshooters on Toronto’s rooftops. Total security costs for the summit were $29.3 million." The story says 200 people were arrested.
G7 security:
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/international_politics/clips/17471/&ref=rss
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
milnews.ca said:Wanna draw media attention without violence and balloons full of crap? Want to show your commitment to a cause? This from the G&M:
So, is there anything wrong with this kind of protest? This is an image I had in my head for the past weekend of what I hoped for. A peaceful walk, which garnered the attention of one of our national news papers.
Thanks for this milnews.
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