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FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

SeaKingTacco

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The certification issue appears to be that the system is inadequate. TC won't certify it if it dosent work.
Pedantic point: Transport Canada has zero say about certification of military aircraft in Canada. DND is its own airworthiness authority, from the MND.

Now, as to whether or or not the anti-ice/de-ice systems work adequately is a separate issue.
 

Good2Golf

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It also depends on whether DND’s Directorate of Technical Airworthiness accepts Airbus’ articles of certification/conformity for the anti-icing system and aircraft performance. If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be the first time that DND has not (at least initially) not accepted OEM stated aircraft anti-ice capability/performance. The CH-147F was prohibited from flying in any icing conditions for at least a year while DND/ADM(Mat)/DGAEPM/DTAES/DTA assessed then finally accepted Boeing’s articles of conformity for certification. For a moment, there was discussion about DND/RCAF having to conduct a complete icing test program on the CH-147F to allow it to fly in any conditions that even trace icing might occur.
 

Good2Golf

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The aircraft can fly into known icing but the performance factors just don’t work for what we do. This is due to the conservative nature of the civil certification standard CASA used.
And that may be the rub, where SOR and contract have differences that didn’t make the translation from technical to contractual terms. It happens and can be inadvertent, deliberate or a mix of both.
 

SupersonicMax

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And that may be the rub, where SOR and contract have differences that didn’t make the translation from technical to contractual terms. It happens and can be inadvertent, deliberate or a mix of both.
It is really difficult to craft SORs that take into account every single scenario. It’d help of we had a general suitability clause but in my experience with PSPC, we can’t really effectively do that.
 
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Good2Golf

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It is really difficult to craft SORs that take into account every single scenario. It’d help of we had a general suitability clause but in my experience with PSPC, we can’t really effectively do that.
Absolutely, Max. Trying to hit the balance between ‘got enough details’ and ‘over-prescriptive’ can be a fine line, indeed. Ts&Cs in the contract can provide some buffer, but things will almost always then come down to the cost side of the Time-Scope-Cost triangle, and you’re looking at ECPs or AWRs to leverage that buffer and both those absorb $$$.
 

Dana381

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Pedantic point: Transport Canada has zero say about certification of military aircraft in Canada. DND is its own airworthiness authority, from the MND.

Now, as to whether or or not the anti-ice/de-ice systems work adequately is a separate issue.

Civi mistake, I knew better too I just forgot at the time I posted. Thanks for the reminder
 

daftandbarmy

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That’s rather……..pathetic.

Don't mean nuthin'... Viking Air will make sure it lives on ;)


DHC-5 Buffalo​

With nearly twice the payload as the DHC-4 Caribou and improved STOL capabilities, the DHC-5 Buffalo was designed to be a tactical transport aircraft for militaries worldwide. Many Buffalo would also later be used for search-and-rescue operations by the Canadian Air Force.
Viking owns the Type Certificate for the DHC-5 Buffalo and provides parts and support services to the fleet worldwide. If you would like more information on Viking's support for this aircraft, please visit our Customer Support page for details.
 

Spencer100

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Don't mean nuthin'... Viking Air will make sure it lives on ;)


DHC-5 Buffalo​

With nearly twice the payload as the DHC-4 Caribou and improved STOL capabilities, the DHC-5 Buffalo was designed to be a tactical transport aircraft for militaries worldwide. Many Buffalo would also later be used for search-and-rescue operations by the Canadian Air Force.
Viking owns the Type Certificate for the DHC-5 Buffalo and provides parts and support services to the fleet worldwide. If you would like more information on Viking's support for this aircraft, please visit our Customer Support page for details.
Now back to DeHavilland Canada, I am kind of glad they went with the old name. I like it.

 

MJP

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Don't mean nuthin'... Viking Air will make sure it lives on ;)


DHC-5 Buffalo​

With nearly twice the payload as the DHC-4 Caribou and improved STOL capabilities, the DHC-5 Buffalo was designed to be a tactical transport aircraft for militaries worldwide. Many Buffalo would also later be used for search-and-rescue operations by the Canadian Air Force.
Viking owns the Type Certificate for the DHC-5 Buffalo and provides parts and support services to the fleet worldwide. If you would like more information on Viking's support for this aircraft, please visit our Customer Support page for details.
At the rate we divest things the Depots will hold parts for them for free for years!!
 

Skysix

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2 sprained ankles must = "feet and knees together". I bet your PI said "good job...give me 25 for each!". 😁

Ref the underlined part...I seem to remember a Van Doo Cpl on the Franco course who sprained or broke an ankle on the night jump and sucked it up on the ramp jump for the same reason. A level of motivation I'd not seen previous on the folks on BP - I think 1 pers went off the Mock Tower 20-some times to get his check.
27. Slow learner and not very body position aware. Yes Buxton in January is 'solid' but the shuttle runs inside were kinder to the body than 5 miles of literally freezing the lining of your lungs at -30. And landing inside the old NORAD ammo storage dump fenceline on my first jump cost me a $#!+ ton of beer. Somehow the jumpmaster never got tagged for that...

Civilian buddy on a FF jump working on his A license burned in there in '81. RIP.
 

Skysix

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Related to the housing issue in Comox and Canada so I'll just post here since it's more aircraft-related.

Is fixed wing SAR worth all the cost of moving a herc squadron, personnel, equipment etc into the cost of living hornet nest on the Island? Do we really need to put all this effort into a capability that's seldom used anyway?
Or maybe move 442 to Whitehorse.....
 

daftandbarmy

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Or maybe move 442 to Whitehorse.....

Whitehorse is awesome, if expensive in it's own way.

Which leads me to muse that it's a funny old world when, despite Russia coming out of the closet recently as the greatest threat to world peace since Nazi Germany, we continue kick around ideas about how to deploy our national defence assets using housing prices and cost of living as the key success factor.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Which leads me to muse that it's a funny old world when, despite Russia coming out of the closet recently as the greatest threat world peace since Nazi Germany, we continue kick around ideas about how to deploy our national defence assets using housing prices and cost of living as the key success factor.
Honestly, if this government wanted to make it work, they would throw enough money at our problems for them to disappear so we can get the job done effectively.

The problem is that this government, including the policy makers setting it's priorities, doesn't want to.
 

daftandbarmy

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Honestly, if this government wanted to make it work, they would throw enough money at our problems for them to disappear so we can get the job done effectively.

The problem is that this government, including the policy makers setting it's priorities, doesn't want to.

Of course, you're correct.

I'm therefore looking forward to the upcoming wave of GOFO resignations in protest at what is likely a journey down a 'global conflict losing' path.
 

YZT580

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I still standby my opinion that SAR needs to be cut from the DND and contracted out. This is a huge burden on our Air Force that we can't adequately support.
Perhaps just separating the budget out so it isn't a burden and so its costs are not buried from the public eye. Private would cost significantly more. No private business would rely on assets positioned every 3000 miles across the country. They would open at least 4 bases below 60 and at least 2 above. Liability would define the mission. They couldn't get away with half-ass
 
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