From pay sheet to pay check- developing a reserve pay primer for my troops

[Nfld Sapper]

Also don't forget the (very) rare CLASS A Route letter..... :stirpot:

 

[FreeFloat]

Only if the period of employment is 14 days or more will you be placed on class B.

Ahem..... 12 days.  Reference CMP 20/04 etc etc.  On the 13th consecutive day, the whole period MUST be converted over into Class B.  (I've seen it happen)

 

[Celticgirl]

SOPs for submitting paysheets vary from unit to unit - make it clear to the troops that the way your unit handles the workflow is not necessarily the same as in the next unit they will be in.  In most Army units, paysheets will be put out for the start of any training activities.  It's the one-offs for taskings that cause headache, more often than not.

Seen.  I realized this when I read Brihard's post above.  In my unit, we have one pay sheet per two-week pay period.  I feel for the Army clerks now. lol

No.  Wrong.  Completely wrong.  You can go on TD on class A - I've done it frequently.  Travel status is not related to employment status.  Only if the period of employment is 14 days or more will you be placed on class B.

What I meant to say is that it's not just people currently on Class B contracts who can receive TD, which was how I read one section in Brihard's document.  But yes, TD under 15 days would be Class A.  I haven't had to do any of those yet, so I do forget that point.  Thanks for the clarification.

Follow-up should go to both clerical staff and chain of command - clerical staff for the info; CoC to keep them informed so if the claim is delayed they can swing in at higher levels, if needed - and will have the trail of what transpired.

My point here was simply that it's the clerks who can give you info on the claims themselves, so if you want to know why you haven't received your money or when you might expect to receive it, those are the people you will want to ask.  Point taken about the CoC being informed, but sometimes people are unrealistic about when they should be getting their money (i.e. the day after they drop off their claim) and I don't know that they need to keep going to their supervisors to update them...maybe if it's been more than 30 days and it appears nothing is happening.

Ahem..... 12 days.  Reference CMP 20/04 etc etc.  On the 13th consecutive day, the whole period MUST be converted over into Class B.  (I've seen it happen)

At our unit, it is 14 days.  I assume this is at the discretion of our CO, but I will ask about it after the holidays. 

 

[brihard]

I added the percentage figure for PILL, clarified the class B route letter/SOU =/= legal contract issue, added a paragraph about how annual leave works, and a few other little tweaks. I've split allowances into a new section, and added transportation assistance- do I have the term correct?

Here's the new version. I'll go back and update previous links.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Here's the new version. I'll go back and update previous links.

This guide is the tits.
Having a resource like this primer would have saved me a ton of confusion & frustration, I'll tell you what.

I really hope this, (or something like it) finds it's way into the hands of new Reservists.

 

[brihard]

This guide is the tits.
Having a resource like this primer would have saved me a ton of confusion & frustration, I'll tell you what.

I really hope this, (or something like it) finds it's way into the hands of new Reservists.

It just friggin' astounds me that during the course of my basic training I received a formal lecture on how to shave my face, but not on how the pay system works. We're a military that seems to formalize the training of everything, no matter how inane, yet the troops are never taught about pay other than through word of mouth- and we all know how that goes. It ain't right.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

It just friggin' astounds me that during the course of my basic training I received a formal lecture on how to shave my face, but not on how the pay system works.

:rofl: Too true!!! I'll never forget the demonstration on the "proper usage of soap for cleaning one's body".  "Circular motions, troops!"

Not that hygiene is unimportant, but I would like to think that one or two forty-minute chunks could be devoted to understanding the ins & outs of the pay system before a bunch of issues rear their ugly heads.

 

[FreeFloat]

Awesome revision Brihard.  I love how you were able to distill my two pages of detailed blather into about a paragraph of concise "need to know."  And thanks for mentioning the "SOU =/= Contract" thing; it's difficult to get the word out against years of clerks' referring to all Class B's as "contracts" (until cutbacks occur and people are let go and the hue and cry begins...  "...but we have a CONTRACT!!")

 

[ModlrMike]

How things have changed. I distinctly remember getting lectures on pay and finances... but then again we have to carbon date my enrollment papers.

 

[Biohazardxj]

Folks I have been playing this game for a long time, and bitches and beefs are still the same.  I am a Reg Force clerk presently employed as the Chief Clerk of a reserve infantry unit.  Every fall I give the troops, Pte up to MCpl, an "idiot's guide to CF Pay"  I talk about uploads, and cut off dates and stuff like that.  It doesn't help.  The main reason is that we are dealing with kids, 17 to 20, who only parade once a week and every other weekend.  They don't remember this stuff when an issue arises.

The CFAOs clearly state that is the responsibility of the individual member to know what his or her pay and allowances should be.  Still, every January I will get a boat load of of people, Pte to Col, wanting to know why their pay dropped, forgetting EI just kicked in again.  But it doesn't matter it is still the clerks fault.

CDN Aviator - I spent many years with the Aurora community.  Went on many a TD with them, usually as the claim holder going to multiple countries with multiple currencies.  I just love Bulk Claims.  Never saw any need to change the rules just the attitude of the aircrew. 

80% for an advance on a TD claim is NOT A DND directive.  It is a Treasury Board directive.  The Treasury Board is a branch of the Federal Government and dictates policy to all government branches, including DND, as to how they are to manage their finances.

Another good rule was they no advance will be issued 48 prior to departure.  Case in point.  I was the cashier in ZX at the time, and this young Pte/Cpl wanted his $2000 advance off his claim 2 weeks prior to departure.  When I told him he had to wait until two days prior, his response to me was:  But I need to buy a car!

Yes, there are some bad clerks out there.  I know cuz I fired a couple.  Amalgamation didn't help either.  But the majority are not.  Believe it or not we are human and we do screw up from time to time.  But we do try hard to make sure all 24 pay cheques a year are correct, and that claims are finalized quickly and accurately.


       

 

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

  The main reason is that we are dealing with kids, 17 to 20, who only parade once a week and every other weekend.  They don't remember this stuff when an issue arises.

I call supreme, ultimate, infinity, no take-backs bullsh!t.

In my experience, a whole bunch of 17 to 20 year olds learned a whole mess of things in 7 weeks, including, (but not limited to):
rank structure, dress & deportment, C7 drills, field craft......etc, all while not hopelessly pissing ang poo-ing themselves.
Yeah, we may have gotten a "fly-by" of when we'll get paid.....but in my experience, any pay issue was dealt with on a "suck it up" basis.

I think maybe that's why Brihard made a really good primer....but what do I know....

I was 26 when I went on my PRes BMQ, and although there was a whole bunch of young fellas & gals, there was quite a few of us who were over 17-20, and realized that something was going on when we called our wives/husbands, and they asked where the hell the money was.

I didn't get any goddamn explanation as to when the money would come in and why it took so goddamn long (the 2-weeks rule).
I dropped 30% of my civy pay to be able to do my full time BMQ, and was happy to do so, (I saw it as part of the deal.)

I knew I'd lose 25% off my gross, as I do in the civy world.

I don't buy the "young kids" excuse for a minute.

Shame on you. (finger wag)

Yes, there are some bad clerks out there.  I know cuz I fired a couple.  Amalgamation didn't help either.  But the majority are not.  Believe it or not we are human and we do screw up from time to time.  But we do try hard to make sure all 24 pay cheques a year are correct, and that claims are finalized quickly and accurately.

And there you have it.

There's a donkey in every stable, (and in every trade, I'm sure), but I'm literally still paying for the screwups that I've experienced... but.....I GOT OUT IN 2009 FOR CHRIST'S SAKE....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

edit for a video that expresses my feeling (sans cardigan, of course)

 

[High Lander]

Interesting thread.  Common to much of the thread is the clerk bashing which is unfair but we, the collective we, tend to seek out the lowest common denominator to toss some blame at because it is easy.  Having commanded through the Reserves and having lengthy service on Class B/C I am au fait with the rules and guidelines and would like offer one other point of advice here.

Lost in all of this is the need to train leaders at all levels not only how the pay/claim system works but what exactly their responsibilities to their subordinates are.  In the old days, before we modularized training, there was time spent teaching Junior Officers about the pay system, with modularization came decisions to chop things out and the assumption was it would either be picked up on an "as you go" basis or would be covered in some form of "on-line training".  The responsibilities associated with taking care of one's subordinates should never be left to either of these avenues of training.  New soldiers, sailors or airmen have enough going on and someone in their face all of the time that learning about how you get paid gets lost.  Leaders are responsible to make sure you are paid, any good Officer or NCO stays on top of this and follows up on their subordinates pay problems.

The primer is a great idea and it can be enhanced by making sure the leaders know their responsibilities and how to solve their subordinates problems.  Best of luck.

 

[Biohazardxj]

I call supreme, ultimate, infinity, no take-backs bullsh!t.

Really?  What are you? Two?


At 26 you had some life experience. I would hope you would know better.  I'm talking about young people in school or just graduated with out a schmik how the real world works.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Really?  What are you? Two?


At 26 you had some life experience. I would hope you would know better.  I'm talking about young people in school or just graduated with out a schmik how the real world works.

Y'know what, you're right.

To hell with'em. Since some folks aren't going to be bright enough to pay attention to something like Brihard has come up with, screw 'em all.

No point in even bothering trying to help them.
:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Y'know what, you're right.

To hell with'em. Since some folks aren't going to be bright enough to pay attention to something like Brihard has come up with, screw 'em all.

No point in even bothering trying to help them.
:

If you're not willing to help with the intent of the thread, please refrain from posting in it.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[aesop081]

  I just love Bulk Claims.

For me its the oposite. I truely hate them.

Never saw any need to change the rules just the attitude of the aircrew.

The attitude of the aircrew ? Pardon ?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This whole tangent regarding Reg Force (aircrew) claims is NOT part of what this thread is about, Cl A Reserve Pay.

Please start your own thread, take your discussion elswhere and quit derailing this one.


Milnet.ca Staff

 

[PanaEng]

I added the percentage figure for PILL, clarified the class B route letter/SOU =/= legal contract issue, added a paragraph about how annual leave works, and a few other little tweaks. I've split allowances into a new section, and added transportation assistance- do I have the term correct?

Here's the new version. I'll go back and update previous links.

Well done Brihard!
I'll review and comment if necessary - the wealth of knowledge and experience already looking at this thread will probably find any inaccuracy/omission way before I would notice anything - and I'll share it with my troops. We have great OR staff, but they are a busy bunch and the more troubleshooting we can do before we go to them the better.

Chimo!

Frank

 

[JMesh]

Brihard, I commend you on putting together such a great resource for new members. It is a complicated system (as many of the posts here show), and you have distilled it down to the basics that most members need to know.

One point that I noticed to fix though is on page 3, under Rank and IPC. Class A and Class B are both paid using the same daily rate. Class C is the pay calculated at a monthly rate

Edited to remove CCPS point on Class C (See msgs by NFLD Sapper; dapeterson)

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Brihard, I commend you on putting together such a great resource for new members. It is a complicated system (as many of the posts here show), and you have distilled it down to the basics that most members need to know.

One point that I noticed to fix though is on page 3, under Rank and IPC. Class A and Class B are both paid using the same daily rate. Class C is the pay calculated at a monthly rate, and it comes through CCPS rather than RPSR.

Depends I have been paid CLASS C (in Canada) via RPSR.........