From pay sheet to pay check- developing a reserve pay primer for my troops

[brihard]

In the 'Surprise! Pay being mishandled' thread, I came up with he idea of developing a basic training package for my troops by which I could teach them the fundamentals of how reserve pay works, particularly on class A. My intentions on this are a couple things:

-As soldiers, they'll 'get' reserve pay, and will be better able to tell when things are working and when they're not
-They'll be better able to self diagnose pay issues, as well as knowing what information I need to fix it.
-I'll be able to help my troops faster, and to help them to help themselves when pay issues come up. They'll know what I need to help figure out and fix a problem.
-The troops will have clear communication on what I and the administration expect of them, but also what they can expect of me and the unit.
-The troops will have a realistic appreciation of when they can expect to get paid for a given day's work, as well as what sort of time is reasonable to fix a problem
-The troops will know when things are wrong enough that it's necessary to involve their chain of command, and will be able to tell when they're being fed a line, or something otherwise stinks.
-Our clerks will be less burdened by troops concerned about their pay, as the soldiers will recognize that some things are problems and others are normal. Also, when a problem is presented to the clerks for resolution, all necessary information will be there for them to fix it.
-The troops will be better equipped to follow their own admin, through knowing about and understanding the master pay record and EMAA (a joint part of my plan is to get all my troops EMAA acocunts and set them up with email pay delivery).




I've got a rough framework done for what I'm going to put together, as follows:


1. Class A/Class B
a) What's the difference?
b) Who pays for it (Fin codes)

2. What goes in, what comes out
a) RPSR and your pay balance
b) Deductions
-CPP
-EI
-Pension
-Money owed

3. From pay sheet to pay check- how Class A pay works
a) What happens to a pay sheet within the unit?
b) What happens to a pay sheet from an outside task (e.g., battle school)?
c) Who needs to authorize it?
d) How long should it take a pay sheet to reach the unit from outside, and whose job is that?
e) What do the clerks do with the pay sheet?
f) When the pay sheet gets entered into RPSR (describe RPSR), then what?
g) Why does Class A pay lag by two weeks?
h) Describe how pay runs and deposits work, and when they need to be authorized
Specifically, timelines
i) How pay advances work.

4. Common pay problems and troubleshooting
a) I didn't get paid at all
-Did your buddies get paid for the same tasking/work?
-Did you sign the pay sheet / all the pay sheets?
-Did the pay sheet get submitted?
-Did the pay sheet get submitted in time for the current pay run?
-Was the pay sheet authorized? Was a fin code provided?
-Did you owe the military money?
b) I didn't get as much money as I thought I should
-Did you sign all pay sheets?
-Did you compare your pay received with all of the deductions?
c) I got paid at the wrong rank or IPC
-Were you promoted recently?

5. Class B (<180 days)
a) Contracts
b) Claims
c) Allowances

6. Responsibilities- The soldier, the chain of command, and the orderly room
a) The Soldier
-EMAA/pay stubs
-Master Pay Record Report
-Track your attendance
-Involve your chain of command at earliest opportunity, but have documentation and
information for them. Specific dates and dollar figures.
-Make sure you weren't paid too much. Identify it and don't spend it if you were.
b) The chain of command
-Accept pay problems as, generally, an immediate administrative priority. Pay will be one of the biggest concerns of the soldier and can have one of the greatest detrimental effects on their welfare and morale, as well as that of their peers.
-Be aware of the timelines upon which pay work, particularly when a soldier reports a problem shortly before a pay run. You might have to move fast to fix it.
-Continue to push the issue up the chain as quickly as possible. Seek feedback on it.
-Keep the soldier informed about the state of their pay problem resolution.
c) The orderly room / administrative pers
-Receiving pay sheets and inputting them into the system in a timely manner
-Activating contracts
-Preparing and verifying claims
-Identifying errors or other issues, and communicating them down the chain of command to the soldier promptly
-Fixing the soldier's pay with as little delay as possible.
-Informing the soldier/chain of command as to what actually is wrong and what's being done to fix it.
-Advising as to how long fixing a problem should take.
-Keeping the soldier informed of other administrative alternatives (e.g., pay advances)



I figure I'm about 80% there with regards to the content of this package. As much as it looks, most of this will require no more than a sentence or a short para to explain. I intend this to be something that can be handed to a new troops the day they start BMQ, so that they understand the 'what, when, who, how, and why' of pay and its myriad problems.

I also want an undercurrent of this to be that pay problems should not be normal and should not be accepted, but that an individual is responsible for keeping abreast of their own admin, and that a pay problem shouldn't generate a hatefest for the BOR, but just an honest effort to meet the chain of command halfway and provide everything we need to help them.

I'm not yet at the point of really plugging in content. What I'd like for the time being is some feedback on whether any of this either doesn't merit inclusion, or whether I've missed anything glaring (I must have) that needs to go in there. Once I have a revised framework for it, then I'll be soliciting a bit of help (some of which has already been kindly offered) to fill in the gaps. When all is said and done I'll be submitting it through my chain for approval and revision, so I can use it to train my troops. I might potentially develop it into a powerpoint, too. As a collaborative effort, of course, once I'm most of the way there I'll happily make the file accessible for anyone else to make use of.

So, for those of you with the time and inclination, fire away- and thank you for the help.

 

[klacquement]

While you say that this is aimed at reservists, I can also see a need for something similar for us reg-force types.  Even though the pay sheet isn't applicable, things like claims and FIN codes might be useful.  Some of the "what does this mean on my pay stub" is also all-around useful.

 

[aesop081]

FIN codes might be useful. 

Fin codes dont mean anything to the average RegF guy and its not necessary. If you need to understand and work with fin codes you are either a clerk or a section 32/34 and have the requisite training.

A new RegF member needs to know about fin codes about as much as i need to know about castrating al pacas.

 

[GAP]

Well....CA...you never know what might come in handy.... :nod:

 

[brihard]

While you say that this is aimed at reservists, I can also see a need for something similar for us reg-force types.  Even though the pay sheet isn't applicable, things like claims and FIN codes might be useful.  Some of the "what does this mean on my pay stub" is also all-around useful.

As a reservist myself, and all my troops being reservists, they're my PTA on this. Anyone on the regs side is welcome to use any of what I have and adapt is as fits, but I've got rather a lot on my plate already. This isn't supposed to be anything comprehensive on pay; just no more and no less than what is of significance to the individual soldier and, if I might be allowed a bit of conceit my peers in the NCO corps who are generally the interface between the reservists who's about to miss his rent cheque and the administrative organs who can fix it. Simply put, we're never actually taught how pay is supposed to work, so I'm just trying to put something out that will help dissipate the smoke on this one.

The only reason I'm including fin codes at all is so I can explain what I mean when I say to one of my troops, "Yeah, you signed the pay sheet for this tasking and handed it to me. I gave it to the BOR. But they need to get it signed off on because the Directorate of Redundant Bureaucracy and Administrative Inventiveness is paying for the tasking, and it needs to come out of their budget." My unit gets a lot of random little taskings thrown out to us, and this is an issue that occasionally crops up. Fin codes won't be more than a couple sentences in this.

"What does this mean on my pay stub?" is a great idea. Thank you.

 

[Celticgirl]

I am new to the world of RMS, but I work in an Air Res OR, and from my limited experience, I see some information here that, in my view, doesn't benefit the average CF member. For starters, fin codes are not useful to anyone but clerks and admin/finance officers.  There is one fin code for Class A and one for Class B (Class C pay is handled through CCPS, not RPSR and is therefore conducted by Reg F clerks).  What would a member need to know those codes for?  The daily rate of pay is THE SAME, whether you are A or B.  You will simply get more days on B, so if you are not being paid the 30 or 31 days when on B, or if your A days don't add up to what you have submitted on your pay sheets, go to the clerks and bring it to their attention.  But I wouldn't recommend going in to an OR and telling a clerk he or she entered the wrong Fin code unless you are his or her boss. LOL  Further to this, your question "was a fin code provided?" (section 4 (a)) has me puzzled.  Why would one be provided to the member on his/her pay sheet?  All a mbr needs to do is submit dates and hours worked, sign on each lined filled in, and have a supervisor (minimum one rank above) sign the same lines prior to submitting it to the OR. 

Another thing that got my attention is the concept that pay advances are a good 'alternative' for members.  Pay advances should be reserved for emergencies only.  Never rely on pay advances as an option, people...you will likely be told 'no' if you don't have a darned good reason for it.  (If you do get an advance, discuss with your clerks in what increments you would like them to take the money off your future pays.  If you don't discuss it with them, they will use their own judgment, which may not work for your budget.)  If you have a TD claim for an upcoming course/tasking/whatever, then by all means ask for an advance on your claim.  However, be prepared to pay some of it back if for some reason you don't complete your TD.  Always keep in mind that final claims may end up being smaller amounts than the initial claims depending on the many variables of your TD, so it's always a good idea to ask for less than the 'maximum allowable' amount.  Usually, it ends up being a shade more, but you just never know.

I do like the sections on the OP's pay primer about members checking their own pay rates (rank and IPC) on statements as this is something that can go unnoticed for one or two (or more) pays before it gets picked up.  Do be proactive with your pay statements.  Know what your rate should be and if there is a discrepancy, talk to your OR clerks about it a.s.a.p.  If you do not have access to EMAA (on the DWAN) to get your statements, ask to have them emailed to you.  We have no problem doing this if we know you have no other way of getting your pay statements.

Overall, I think the OP has a good idea here. It's wise to educate members on basic administrative and financial issues, especially those new to the Reserves and/or the CF.  This would be a great thing for a Reserve PD Day.  (I keep telling my supervisors that I want to do a workshop on 'How to Properly Fill out a CF100' on our next PD Day. )

 

[brihard]

Thanks.

For reference, here's exactly what I've written on fin codes:

In the reserves we'll often work taskings for other units or organizations. Every unit or organization has its own budget. When your unit provides you to work for another organization, that organization has to pay for your employment, not your unit. The outside organization has to provide your clerks with a 'fin code', or financial code, for the pay sheet- what budget the money comes out of. This is not your responsibility to identify. Just be aware that it exists, and if a fin code isn't provided your pay might not arrive when you expect it.

Specific bit of info I'm looking here- a fact check.
Troops sign pay sheets. Clerks get pay sheets. Sheets are authorized (per unit SOP) if necessary. Pay sheets are submitted to RPSR. Twice a month, the pay run is certified and submitted, and will result in a deposit two pay days hence. Exactly when in each month is the pay run due to be certified and submitted? We had one not too long ago where a few of my troops didn't get paid on Nov 30th for Nov 11th (a Thursday) or for taskings they worked on the 12th, 13th, and 14th. I explained that it was unlikely that those pay sheets were submitted in time for the pay run for deposit on the 30th. I want to confirm I'm correct, and exactly when in each month that happens.

EDIT TO ADD: Oh yeah, and I'll mention the dangers of pay advances, and that they should only be viewed as an alternative to not paying your absolutely necessary bills. I think we've all seen advances go horribly wrong.

 

[Celticgirl]

Specific bit of info I'm looking here- a fact check.
Troops sign pay sheets. Clerks get pay sheets. Sheets are authorized (per unit SOP) if necessary. Pay sheets are submitted to RPSR. Twice a month, the pay run is certified and submitted, and will result in a deposit two pay days hence. Exactly when in each month is the pay run due to be certified and submitted? We had one not too long ago where a few of my troops didn't get paid on Nov 30th for Nov 11th (a Thursday) or for taskings they worked on the 12th, 13th, and 14th. I explained that it was unlikely that those pay sheets were submitted in time for the pay run for deposit on the 30th. I want to confirm I'm correct, and exactly when in each month that happens.

In our unit, we ask that pay sheets are submitted on or before the 15th and the last day (30th or 31st) NLT 1000 hrs (troops: submit pay sheets on your last day of work - never sign and submit a pay sheet for a day or days not yet worked, this is considered fraud).  The RPSR clerk (not me) begins inputting pay on the 15th or 30th/31st.  If necessary, this will carry over to the following morning.  However, RPSR will lock clerks out beyond a certain time period (I do not know when exactly that occurs...seems to be about 2 days later but I would have to check with the RPSR clk for confirmation).  This is why late pay sheets do not get submitted.  It's not that 'we' won't do it, but that the actual system only accepts pay runs at specific times of the month and for specific periods.  If the pay sheets you talked about for November were submitted late, then yes, that is why they were not paid on the 30th of Nov.  However, they should have received the money on their next pay, 15 Dec.  If they still did not receive it, contact the OR and leave a msg in that regard...someone will be in your unit's OR over the holidays to do pay and will get your msg. 

 

[brihard]

In our unit, we ask that pay sheets are submitted on or before the 15th and the last day (30th or 31st) NLT 1000 hrs (troops: submit pay sheets on your last day of work - never sign and submit a pay sheet for a day or days not yet worked, this is considered fraud).  The RPSR clerk (not me) begins inputting pay on the 15th or 30th/31st.  If necessary, this will carry over to the following morning.  However, RPSR will lock clerks out beyond a certain time period (I do not know when exactly that occurs...seems to be about 2 days later but I would have to check with the RPSR clk for confirmation).  This is why late pay sheets do not get submitted.  It's not that 'we' won't do it, but that the actual system only accepts pay runs at specific times of the month and for specific periods.  If the pay sheets you talked about for November were submitted late, then yes, that is why they were not paid on the 30th of Nov.  However, they should have received the money on their next pay, 15 Dec.  If they still did not receive it, contact the OR and leave a msg in that regard...someone will be in your unit's OR over the holidays to do pay and will get your msg.

Thanks again. I got most of the generalities of how it all works (read the 'Surprise!' thread in this same forum for my tale of woe) but it was specifically the bit about the pay run going in a couple days after the 15th and 30th/31st that I needed. That's good enough for my guys to understand what goes on in enough detail for them to know that not getting paid for working Saturday the 14th probably isn't a problem on the 31st.

This is all coming together rather well, and significantly better than I expected.

 

[brihard]

My first draft copy is done. If anyone's willing to PM me an email address I can send this to to be looked at, I'd be much obliged. It comes to about eight and a half pages.

 

[aesop081]

Always keep in mind that final claims may end up being smaller amounts than the initial claims depending on the many variables of your TD, so it's always a good idea to ask for less than the 'maximum allowable' amount. 

Thats the same logic that causes rules where i can only get 80-90% of what my claim is worth as an advance.

When i am away on TD........should i just eat 80% of my daily entitlement just in case ?

Can i tell the hotel that i will pay 80% of my bill now and they will get the other 20 when my claim gets processed ?

If a claim is worth X ammount, advance the member X ammount. If the TD gets cut short, do a recovery and thats it. Pretty damned simple.

I have been here for a little over 5 years and do roughly 10-12 TD trips a year. I have had very few be cut short and quite a few go longer. Using the logic of "take less in case it gets cut short", why not use "take the full ammount in case you dont come home on time".....

If more clerks went on more TD trips, stupid rules would disapear quick.........

 

[FreeFloat]

Thought I'd chime in here - I was directed to this thread by a friend.

I have 15+ years in the Forces as an RMS Clerk - although I'm Reserve, most of that 15 years is on contract of some sort, both Class B and C.  I've worked extensively with BOTH RPSR and CCPS (as well as Claims-X etc)

I just know I could put in a lot of valuable pointers for you - please feel free to email me your document for review, or PM me for my Forces addy!

---------------------------------------------

Boy I could write whole books about this topic.  But just a few tweaks come immediately to mind:

I can offer a little further clarification on the "production schedule" (i.e. payrun generation timings) for RPSR.  Generally, each payrun is "generated" by RPSR at least 10 days prior to the pay deposit day.  So for example, November 30's cut-off would be somewhere around November 20.  December 15th's would be around December 5, and so on.  Anything NOT input to RPSR and certified by the finance officer or delegate by this cutoff date would NOT be paid out on that payrun, and would have to wait for the next payrun.

Pay sheets (and certain allowances) may be entered at basically anytime throughout the month, but only the items both entered AND certified by the payrun cutoff date will make it to that payrun.  Sometimes, even though the paysheets for a certain date were entered in the system, if the finance officer (or his delegate, most units have more than one) has not yet "certified" the items in the RPSR, they will continue to sit there, and not be paid out, until this happens.  That's sometimes why attendance for a certain day, say 11 Nov, doesn't end up paid on the payrun you'd expect it.

At one of the units I worked for, we always told the soldiers to Expect at least one pay period's delay for every Class A day worked, but if you haven't seen the pay by two pay periods later, then advise us.  This is of course due to the whole entered/certified/cutoff date thing.  For example, take Nov 11th.  By Nov 12th, the paysheets have been submitted to the Orderly Room.  The applicable fin code is added to them at some point, and the Commanding Officer (or Adjt/Fin O in some units) has signed them at the bottom, thereby authorizing the listed members' attendance.  So by Nov 15th (the 13th and 14th being weekend days), the pay sheets make their way back to the Orderly Room for input.  The Pay Clerk may or may not get them all entered the same day (this will vary widely between units, some are simply more organized and efficient than others).  Once entered, now the pay sheets must be verified and certified in the RPSR by someone holding the authority to do so.  (Most units will have a minimum of 2 people with certification authority)  This may be done the same day (Nov 16th or 17th in this example).  In this hypothetical example, if the cutoff for end-November pay is the 20th, then yes, the troops will see their pay on the end-November payrun.  However if the payrun were any earlier, say the 17th or 18th, and if the paysheets spend just one extra day on anyone's desk, you can quickly see how pay CAN "miss" a payrun.

Don't forget, this hypothetical example follws only ONE paysheet as it goes its rounds!  In reality, paysheets are a neverending flow, although some units tend to process them in little "batches" or clusters.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

A word about advances.  You should probably mention that advances CANNOT be issued against Class A pay.  NEVER. It's actually against NDHQ DMPAP (the RPSR Gods) policy.  A "contingency payment" - that is, a manually calculated deposit for a specific member against a specific payrun - can be generated if necessary, such as in cases where a Class B contract cannot be entered and certified in time to meet the cutoff for that payrun.  HOWEVER, the window of opportunity for contingency payments is even tighter - only 2 DAYS PER PAYRUN!  Contingency payments must be certified by DMPAP and the reason for the request must be substantiated by the unit (or else DMPAP rejects the request and buddy doesn't get paid that payrun)

Contingency payments are the preferred "emergency" payment type for a member on Class B contract when necessary.  The main reasons for this are that "local" payments, i.e. via cheque issued by the local cashier, basically cause a member's entire pay account to be administratively "frozen" until the cashier sends back certain receipts allowing the advance to be properly deducted from the member's pay.  While normally this takes place within 1-2 payrun's time, it CAN take longer.  Can you imagine having the member's pay account essentially "frozen" for over a month waiting for the advance paperwork to go through?  If the member is on Class B status, and receiving regular Class B pay, it's far preferable to issue "contingency payment" against the member's existing contract (which processes automatically) than to wait for the manual paperwork of a cashier advance.

A contingency payment can be likened to a Reg Force "pre determined pay" in that the member's clerk manually determines how much the member is to receive in their bank account, and feeds that number to the system.  In CCPS, this is done only once and the member will continue to receive that clerk-determined amount until the PDP is cancelled - in RPSR, the clerk manually calculates and submits the amount to DMPAP each and every pay.  In both cases, any money the member earns above and beyond the pre-determined amount, is simply accumulated in the member's RPSR or CCPS account, and once the requirement for PDP or contingency payment has passed, the unit clerk removes the PDP (in CCPS) or returns the member to DFT status (Direct Funds Transfer, for RPSR) and the pay system automatically pays out the remaining balance on the next available payrun.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Apologies if this got a little rambly - as you can see, I have a LOT of insight to share.  I'd love to share it - please ask me specific questions, as I do better with them than just winging it out there at random.

Oh, and - to OP - are you mentioning the differences between Class A <6 hours and Class A >6 hours?  I know you're making a difference between Class A and B, but Class A itself can be for either half or full days.

 

[Harris]

Thats the same logic that causes rules where i can only get 80-90% of what my claim is worth as an advance.

And as an FYI for those who have a DND Amex, I was told that you are not entitled to ANY advance on a claim.

 

[aesop081]

Freefloat,

Thanks for the insights. I dont have reservists working for me right now but i expect that to change in the near future. The information will come in handy.

And as an FYI for those who have a DND Amex, I was told that you are not entitled to ANY advance on a claim.

I have had a DND amex for 5 years and have been issued advances for all but 2 TD trips. Not that it does me too much good these days ( the amex) as it is not useable to pay for accomodations at US facilities.

Heck, we had a guy this years whos TD claim was about $25k.........the  Amex ITC doesnt have that kind of limit......

 

[Celticgirl]

Thats the same logic that causes rules where i can only get 80-90% of what my claim is worth as an advance.

When i am away on TD........should i just eat 80% of my daily entitlement just in case ?

Can i tell the hotel that i will pay 80% of my bill now and they will get the other 20 when my claim gets processed ?

If a claim is worth X ammount, advance the member X ammount. If the TD gets cut short, do a recovery and thats it. Pretty damned simple.

I have been here for a little over 5 years and do roughly 10-12 TD trips a year. I have had very few be cut short and quite a few go longer. Using the logic of "take less in case it gets cut short", why not use "take the full ammount in case you dont come home on time".....

If more clerks went on more TD trips, stupid rules would disapear quick.........

Cdn Aviator, clerks don't make the rules for TD.  And we do go on TD trips for courses and whatnot, like every other member.

You can take the maximum allowable if that is what you feel you need (you are entitled), but don't go crying to the clerks if for some reason your trip/course gets cut short and you end up owing money.  I haven't been at this job for all that long and I have seen it happen more than a few times already. 

What you need to realize is that the initial claim is nothing more than a 'guestimate'.  You are taking a gamble by taking the full maximum allowable amount for an advance.  Mind you, more times than not, you will likely win the gamble...but if you can't afford to lose, don't play the game.

As for your hotel comment, I am having a good chuckle here (maybe it's just the rum and egg nog ).  If you pay for a hotel room and have the receipt when you bring back your TD claim, then of course you will be reimbursed the full cost.  TD includes your incidentals as well, so you should be able to advance enough to pay for hotel accommodations (and meals, if necessary) without taking the whole 'guestimate'. 

As a clerk, I only advise based on my (as aforementioned, "limited") experience.  Take the advice or leave it, but don't complain if it doesn't work out in your favour.  Lots of people don't think about the consequences of their decisions.  If you are informed and still want the maximum moulah, then fill your boots!

 

[aesop081]

Cdn Aviator, clerks don't make the rules for TD.  And we do go on TD trips for courses and whatnot, like every other member.

I know, i know. Just a freindly jab thats all........

What you need to realize is that the initial claim is nothing more than a 'guestimate'.

I'm well aware of that. When you print out the claimsX sheets, it even shows you how the estimate was done. Like i said, i do this ALOT !!!

If you pay for a hotel room and have the receipt when you bring back your TD claim, then of course you will be reimbursed the full cost.

Of course you get reimbursed the full costs. I never said you didnt. What i said is that , at the time when i pay my bill, i am only normaly advanced 80%. The last 20% has to come from somewhere when i pay the bill. Guess where that money comes from.

TD includes your incidentals as well, so you should be able to advance enough to pay for hotel accommodations (and meals, if necessary) without taking the whole 'guestimate'. 

Incidentals and meal per diem are not "pay the hotel money"...........Its "feed yourself money"...........

 

[aesop081]

Anyways.......too far off-topic. Sorry !

 

[Celticgirl]

Incidentals and meal per diem are not "pay the hotel money"...........Its "feed yourself money"...........

So the $17.30 per diem for incidentals and $67.90 per diem meals (total = $85.20) is not enough to feed yourself and make up the other 20% of your hotel bill?  I'd love to know what deluxe accommodations and restaurants you patronize on your TD trips.

 

[aesop081]

So the $17.30 per diem for incidentals and $67.90 per diem meals (total = $85.20) is not enough to feed yourself and make up the other 20% of your hotel bill?  I'd love to know what deluxe accommodations and restaurants you patronize on your TD trips.

It usualy is but it is not the point. The GoC sees fit to provide me with a certain ammount of money to feed myself. That money is not allocated to pay the hotel bill.

And if you travelled to some of the places i have to, you would know that the TD rates come severly short in some locations.

 

[Celticgirl]

It usualy is but it is not the point. The GoC sees fit to provide me with a certain ammount of money to feed myself. That money is not allocated to pay the hotel bill.

And if you travelled to some of the places i have to, you would know that the TD rates come severly short in some locations.

Then it is a good thing you are also getting paid while on TD.  ;D