From pay sheet to pay check- developing a reserve pay primer for my troops

[aesop081]

Then it is a good thing you are also getting paid while on TD.  ;D

Thats right because otherwise, how would my bills back home get paid ?

My pay is not "pay DND's hotel bill" either.

Your arguments are exactly like the "you shouldnt count on your reserve pay" line..........

 

[brihard]

FreeFloat- your input is very much appreciated.

Regarding contingency payments vs advances- it's not my intent to differentiate. The result, so far as a reserve Pte/Cpl is ever going to be able to tell, is the same. I'm focusing with that part on function. A pay advance by any other name would smell as sweet when the rent comes due. But I do get your reasoning in mentioning the difference- it's just a difference that is of significance to the clerks, and much less so to the member. The term 'pay advance' is, to my mind functionally correct, in that it nicely sums up the effect of the contingency payment process in a way a new kid with no knowledge or experience with the pay system can 'get'. Remember that the primary training audience here is NOT those of us who, for better or worse, understand the pay system.

I've uploaded the first draft to Google Docs for anyone to look at here: From Pay Sheet To Pay Check

I've already decided to add meals to the (very) short list of allowances I've chosen to include. Any other amendments people can recommend are appreciated. Just remember the training audience here. I'm looking for comprehension, not specific technical knowledge.

 

[FreeFloat]

Just thought I'd mention something from my depth of experience with regards to claims (TD etc):

1. If you have an AMEX ITC, you are not entitled to advances off TD claims.  The AMEX is intended to provide that "pay now claim later" buffer.  While I understand and appreciate difficulties in paying up-front for a hotel which the AMEX may or may not be able to cover in full whereas a claim advance would be able to, that should be the exception, not the rule.

If clerks in the past have issued advances to a holder of the AMEX ITC, they're "doin it rong" (to borrow a popular web phrase).  There should be a note on the member's file that they are an AMEX holder.

Don't forget, the AMEX issued by DND for TD purposes is for TD purposes only.  That means it's not authorized to be used for personal purchases either between or during TD trips.  A lot of people I know say "Yeah, but I'll pay it off on my very next paycheck, what's the big deal?"  The big deal is that even though it's approved against an individual's credit rating, it's issued by DND for DND purposes only.  You want a person credit card for "fun", go get your own    It's comparable to taking the staff car to go grocery shopping, or booking a civvie-pattern DND minivan to go to you'r kid's soccer match.  Just not done.

2. Most TD claims are done with ESTIMATED itineraries, costs, etc.  For example, in Claims-X, the predetermined hotel rates are often a bit out to lunch (usually in the member's favour, but you never know).  in addition, the itineraries, the specific dates and times of departure and arrival for each leg of the trip, have a very direct effect on meal and incidental entitlements.  I cannot tell you how many times I've collected a claim from a member upon his return from TD, and once we've updated his itinerary to match reality and input his receipts, the amount owing back to the member was different than the estimate!  In some cases, off by greater than $100.  If the member had taken an advance on the entire estimated amount, he'd have to pay that back...

There is a statute of limitations of a sort on a claim for which an advance has been issued.  The member has only 30 days from the last date of travel for that TD to bring in the claim and finalize it (providing updated itinerary, additional receipts, etc).  If the cashier does not receive the finalized claim within that time frame, they can, will and do initiate recovery proceedings against the member.  This can result in the member suddenly finding he has no paycheck for one or more pay periods (depending on the amount of the claim - in a claim recovery scenario, the ENTIRE amount of the advance is recovered, and only reimbursed to the member once he finalizes his claim properly)

In some bases on which I've worked, the Finance Offcicer's hard-and-fast rule is that the cashier SHALL NOT issue any advance for more than 80% (or in some cases 90%) of the claim's estimated value.  This provides a buffer against accidental overestimates.

Because the claim contains the incidental daily rate AS WELL AS reimbursement for meals/travel/lodging rates, there should never be an occasion in which the member NEEDS to have more than 50-60% of the total claim value "in hand" in order to make the trip!  Think about it - you could get an advance for all your gas money, all your meals-in-transit, your lodging, and leave the incidentals (that $17.30/day) alone, and STILL have enough money to make the trip unless something like the lodging cost was GROSSLY underestimated.

3. One more point about claims.  While it's fairly straightforward to pursue a claims recovery against a Reg F member if necessary, it is NOT SO for Reservists.  Claims-X, Cashier-X and RPSR are NOT linked.  Furthermore, if the recovery is against a Class A member (i.e. not on continuous contract), the unit may end up waiting months to get the money back!  If the recovery is processed through cashier and the member has been contacted to come in and settle it (and fails to do so), and the Finance Officer orders the recovery off the member's pay, it can be entered on RPSR and if the member has had no attendance earnings, it will sit as a negative balance against the member's pay guide until such time as the member actually signs in and parades, thereby earning offsetting attendance. 

I've seen it happen where a Class A guy gets RTU'd off a course, of course he took an advance on his claim, and once the unit stands up again after the summer break they realize buddy is NES (non-effective status, basically means the guy never came back in to the unit).  By this time the cashier has processed the recovery, submitted the paperwork to the unit, they input it against his pay, but still no one has been able to get ahold of buddy and get him to come in so release proceedings are initiated.  Well this unresolved claim advance is just one more thing the AJAG will have to write up as "still owing to Her Majesty" along with all buddy's kit... yes it eventually goes to the Receiver General and YEARS down the road buddy will suddenly have the amount owing come off a future tax return...

 

[aesop081]

I've already decided to add meals to the (very) short list of allowances I've chosen to include.

Make sure to mention that meal rates do change on occasion and that different locations members travel to ( i.e. countries) will have differing rates as well.

 

[Celticgirl]

Thats right because otherwise, how would my bills back home get paid ?

My pay is not "pay DND's hotel bill" either.

Your arguments are exactly like the "you shouldnt count on your reserve pay" line..........

My goodness, CA, would you like a little cheese to go with your whine?

You've been in the CF a lot longer than I have so you know the drill.  If you don't like it, tell your CoC you prefer not to be sent on any TD trips/courses/taskings/exercises.  Problem solved.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Make sure to mention that meal rates do change on occasion and that different locations members travel to ( i.e. countries) will have differing rates as well.

As they change if you are in the geographic area or not......

 

[brihard]

CdnAviator: Too much detail for my specific application. Anything resulting in international travel is both likely to receive greater administrative attention, and greater briefings given to the soldier(s) in question. I can't picture us randomly sending three privates and a junior Cpl off to Bratislava. I'm thinking more the kid who has to hop on a bus to Meaford for his support weapons course.

I'm trying to maintain some sense of brevity (something I traditionally suck at) and keep it strictly relevant to my context. Remember, I'm an infantry section commander in a reserve regiment. Would that I had a jammy job that had me worrying over international meal claim rates.  ;D

Obviously, anyone adapting this for their own use is welcome to add or subtract as necessary and appropriate to the situation. Just don't claim credit for the whole thing. 

 

[Celticgirl]

@FreeFloat...Excellent information all around. Thank you.

 

[brihard]

...And yes. Writing this has been the larger chunk of my boxing day. Lame, I know.

Rum will make everything better!

 

[aesop081]

You've been in the CF a lot longer than I have so you know the drill. 

Its exactly because i know the drill, that i know what people have to go through.

If you don't like it, tell your CoC you prefer not to be sent on any TD trips/courses/taskings/exercises.  Problem solved.

I always manage fine, thank you. But then again, i am a SNCO paid spec 1 with AIRCRA. My new privates dont have that luxury. Its their interests i am looking out for. They dont make my paycheck to cover the other 20%.............

Lame, I know.

Its not lame. You are looking after your troops.

 

[brihard]

Its not lame. You are looking after your troops.

Self-deprecating humor is how I roll. And besides, I have rum and coke now, so it's good.

Seriously though, I would appreciate feedback on this thing.

 

[4Feathers]

If more clerks went on more TD trips, stupid rules would disapear quick.........

Wow,  it was so simple all along! If I had only known the clerks were making these "stupid" rules we could have fixed this long ago! Not only that, we should send all the clerks away on TD trips and see how the Sqn/unit functions without them and all the stupid rules they make up. Brilliant!

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Self-deprecating humor is how I roll. And besides, I have rum and coke now, so it's good.

Seriously though, I would appreciate feedback on this thing.

Sorry, we are unable to retrieve the document for viewing

 

[aesop081]

Wow,  it was so simple all along! If I had only known the clerks were making these "stupid" rules we could have fixed this long ago! Not only that, we should send all the clerks away on TD trips and see how the Sqn/unit functions without them and all the stupid rules they make up. Brilliant!

yes i know how that sounds. I was trying to say one thing and blamed it on the wrong folks. Mea Culpa.

 

[brihard]

Sorry, we are unable to retrieve the document for viewing

<EDITED>

Oops, I didn't set it to 'public'. That'll do it. I'm new to the whole Google Docs thing.

The most recent link I posted ought to work. Here it is again anyway.

 

[FreeFloat]

A little feedback on the document:

Section 6. entitled "Class B" and "Contracts".  You indicate that the member will sign a "contract" (yadda yadda) and that it is sometimes known as a "route letter" - I think you should correct that.  Although the Class B financial document itself is called a "route letter," there is in fact nothing on there that the member has to sign... you're probably thinking of the Annex to the CMP 20/04, entitled "Statement of Understanding for Reserve Service Over 30 Days" or in short form, "the SOU" (which of course refers to the Statement of understanding part).  The SOU is the only Class B document a member is required to sign in order to initiate the actual employment (notwithstanding any internal in-clearance documents).


..................and a Pet Peeve of mine:

Technically, the SOU is not a "contract" in a legal sense, and at LFCA HQ (my most recent job before my current one was as the J1 Employment Clerk) we were specifically attempting to get people to STOP calling the SOU a "contract" as it tended to get misleading to the members.... a "contract" implies that DND has made a legal agreement to employ the member for a specified job, position, and term - when in fact, that is not the case.  This of course became quite a sticking point last year when a lot of Class B employments were abruptly shortened and members were given their 30-day notices...... a few tried arguing that they were under "contract" for X many years.  Yet, if you READ the SOU, it specifies that DND makes NO guarantees as to the length, the job, the position, or the location in which service is to be performed!  From a legal standpoint, no "contract" has been reached - rather, simply an agreement or "understanding" that DND is offering employment, the terms of which can be modified at any time including the end date.

 

[Celticgirl]

Brihard,

A few points on your document:

1) I saw that PILL (Pay in Lieu of Leave) was mentioned for Class A Reserve pay.  Don't forget to include that this will (not may) be included on the pay statement of all Class A Reservists at a rate of 9% of their daily pay rate.  Also, there is TAA (Travel Assistance Allowance) for those living more than 16 km from their unit.  This will be submitted at the end of each month and will be seen on the 15th pay of the following month.

Class B Reservists will get 1 annual leave day for every 15 days on his/her contract.  The SOU (see #3 below) will give the exact number of leave days you are entitled to per your Cl B contract.

2) Be sure mbrs know that it is one pay sheet per pay period (i.e. 1st to 15th and 16th to 30th/31st) except in extenuating circumstances.  Sign them, have your supervisor (min one rank above you) sign, and submit it to the OR on your last working day of that pay period.

3) Class B contracts:  Members sign a SOU (Statement of Understanding) at the start of each contract, which gives the details of his/her employment (please read before signing).  Their immediate supervisor will sign a Route Letter on the day they begin their contract and on they day they end their contract.  These docs remain on member's pay files and when a member is on a B contract over 180 days, they will be faxed to the appropriate units so that members get the benefits they are entitled to (medical/dental).  (Maybe these benefits should be explained somewhat in your notes?  For instance, many reservists don't know that after a 90-day waiting period, they are entitled to 80% return on basic dental expenses regardless of class of service.  That's right - Class A gets basic dental @ 80%!)

4) TD:  People on Class A can get TD, they will simply be put on Class B for the duration of their TD plus attributable leave days.  Everyone is entitled to TD if sent away for military purposes.  Re: receiving money "within a couple of weeks of returning from a tasking"...this comment is a little misleading...the member has a responsibility to bring in his/her claim as soon as possible after returning from TD to the OR for processing.  There is a 30-day window for the finalization to be completed and money is received 5-7 days after being DFT'd to a member's bank account (and it should be noted that not all cashiers are on-the-ball with the clerks' DFT requests, so this can take longer than expected at times).  Incidentally, members will do better asking their OR clerks for any 'updates' in this regard vs. their CoC, who likely will have no clue.

5) Maybe I've missed it (lots of rum and egg nog this eve  ;D), but I didn't see where you indicated that Class A pay is one pay behind.  A Class B reservist working the first two weeks of a month will be paid for those days on the 15th of that month.  A Class A reservist working the same two weeks will be paid on the last day of that month.  Big difference.  Those going from B to A are often shocked to discover they will essentially 'miss' an entire pay period (i.e. go a whole month without pay).  Going from A to B is much better...two pays on one payday.  This is an important factor for most people's budgets!

6) MPRR:  If members see any info that needs updating, please let your clerks know.  It's your career...you want the most up-to-date info to appear on your MPRR, so make sure it is accurate at any given time. 

By the way Brihard, Class A can differ from unit to unit...in my unit, for instance, we can work 14 days of Class A per month unless otherwise indicated by our CoC.

 

[ModlrMike]

The only point I would make is that it seems very Army centric. For example at my NavRes unit, we don't control our own pay sheets. You sign in upon arrival each night. The only exception being that some of us senior folks who work on projects at home can submit incremental pay sheets now and again.

 

[brihard]

Awesome. Thanks, both of you.

FreeFloat- I'll amend the Class B stuff in the next revision, though I'll be keeping it simple. Recall that the primary focus of this is *pay*, and specifically, pay *problems*. But I will put some of that in.

Celticgirl- Thanks for the percentage figure on PILL. Travel assistance will go in the next revision too. I take the bus, so I forget that one. Regarding 'one pay sheet per period' though- I'm not sure what you mean? At my unit we have a sheet printed off at the start of each parade night with all the troops' names on it; essentially they're signing a roll call. For casual work they simply print their names on a blank form. I've not seen a pay sheet before that encompasses an entire pay period.

I'm not going to go into benefits on this one; that's outside the scope of what specifically I'm working on. That, however, might become a new project- things like the dental could be very useful.

I'll clarify the TD thing. We've done a few exercises where we staye din shacks at night, and got TD for that. I'll mention that it can be applicable to Class A as well.

I'll clarify the 'on return form tasking' thing to make sure that submitting their claims is emphasized. Regarding going through their CoC though, I'm trying to do a couple things there- reinforce the CoC to begin with, and preventing troops form of their own accord going up to BOR and bugging the clerks without at least having their Sect Comd try to troubleshoot the issue for them. Clerks have a lot to do, and a substantial portion of the pay problems I see form my guys are ones that I'm able to clarify for them- many fall in the 'wait one pay period; recock the weapon; check your bank account' IA. I'm not going to get *too* hung up on specific time frames. They probably vary locally, and that's a bit more info than the troops likely need.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Class A pay will lag, but I'll phrase it more explicitly. As for the class A limits, that's what came down specifically through my CoC. I'll leave that one as is, and anyone else using this can alter this as deemed fit.

ModlrMike- I'm army centric. No, I'm just trying to stay in my own arcs. This is primarily for my section, and I'm assuming that my CoC will probably want to spread it at least to the rest of my platoon. I won't profess expertise on navy or air force pay. I'm limiting what I put together to what my guys will use, but of course it's out there free for use and amendment. according to anyone else's needs. Once I get it all done I'll post up the draft I'm submitting, and will amend it as necessary pending chain of command feedback. From that point, it's 'open source' for anyone to use or fill in for their particular unit circumstances.

Remember, I'm infantry; short words, and easily confused.  ;D Plus brevity, clarity, yadda yadda yadda.

Cheers to all of you- a glass is being raised on my end. Hopefully I'll have something ready to present to my CoC for approval by the time we stand up again.

 

[dapaterson]

1) I saw that PILL (Pay in Lieu of Leave) was mentioned for Class A Reserve pay.  Don't forget to include that this will (not may) be included on the pay statement of all Class A Reservists at a rate of 9% of their daily pay rate.  Also, there is TAA (Travel Assistance Allowance) for those living more than 16 km from their unit.  This will be submitted at the end of each month and will be seen on the 15th pay of the following month.

PILL is payable for any service of 29 consecutive days or less - class A, B or C.

Class B Reservists will get 1 annual leave day for every 15 days on his/her contract.  The SOU (see #3 below) will give the exact number of leave days you are entitled to per your Cl B contract.

Correction:  It's two days leave for the first 30 days of class B, 1 day per 15 thereafter to a total of 24 per year - class Bs of under 30 days get PILL instead.

2) Be sure mbrs know that it is one pay sheet per pay period (i.e. 1st to 15th and 16th to 30th/31st) except in extenuating circumstances.  Sign them, have your supervisor (min one rank above you) sign, and submit it to the OR on your last working day of that pay period.

SOPs for submitting paysheets vary from unit to unit - make it clear to the troops that the way your unit handles the workflow is not necessarily the same as in the next unit they will be in.  In most Army units, paysheets will be put out for the start of any training activities.  It's the one-offs for taskings that cause headache, more often than not.

4) TD:  People on Class A can get TD, they will simply be put on Class B for the duration of their TD plus attributable leave days.

No.  Wrong.  Completely wrong.  You can go on TD on class A - I've done it frequently.  Travel status is not related to employment status.  Only if the period of employment is 14 days or more will you be placed on class B.

Everyone is entitled to TD if sent away for military purposes.  Re: receiving money "within a couple of weeks of returning from a tasking"...this comment is a little misleading...the member has a responsibility to bring in his/her claim as soon as possible after returning from TD to the OR for processing.  There is a 30-day window for the finalization to be completed and money is received 5-7 days after being DFT'd to a member's bank account (and it should be noted that not all cashiers are on-the-ball with the clerks' DFT requests, so this can take longer than expected at times).  Incidentally, members will do better asking their OR clerks for any 'updates' in this regard vs. their CoC, who likely will have no clue.

Follow-up should go to both clerical staff and chain of command - clerical staff for the info; CoC to keep them informed so if the claim is delayed they can swing in at higher levels, if needed - and will have the trail of what transpired.