Federal Government & Union spar over returning to office

[Booter]

I don’t know if it’s an equipment issue or a protocol issue- it may not be the workers themselves. But two years of stuff not getting done because people are working from home has worn out it’s welcome. I FEEL like it’s a question of either going all the way in- getting them access and all the systems and info they need- or back to the office.

 

[brihard]

I don’t know if it’s an equipment issue or a protocol issue- it may not be the workers themselves. But two years of stuff not getting done because people are working from home has worn out it’s welcome. I FEEL like it’s a question of either going all the way in- getting them access and all the systems and info they need- or back to the office.

Out of curiosity, what kind of ‘not getting done’ are you guys seeing?

 

[Remius]

Out of curiosity, what kind of ‘not getting done’ are you guys seeing?

I’d be curious about that as well.

 

[Booter]

Certain aspects in Organized crime analysis- some work has to be completed in office but catching people for appointments, which used to be like a day previous- are taking a week or more to just set. Which is a problem of how people are managed- which ironically probably isn’t a guy working from home.

Project management for builds has slowed down. But this is getting better in the last few months.

As two examples.

Now that said, to their credit- accounting Ops seems to have sorted them selves out quite well. That was incredibly painful about a year ago- but they have a pretty pro system when I catch them at home.

A few months ago it was quite common to get a return from someone saying that they were working from home and they don’t have access to this program or that.

Archiving and personnel file issues is still very hard to corner, which isn’t an issue for a large portion of the org.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I've got to be honest, things were slow in the first few months of the lockdown due to limited VPN access, so not everyone could log in at the same time, but once they set up most servers and upped the bandwidth, aside from DRMIS it's pretty good. There were some issues with not being able to get a hold of people but generally worked through that.

If people are still having issues with work not getting done 2 years in, that's not a WFH problem; that's a straight up lack of supervision/competence, and just being back in the office won't fix that.

I was optimistic we were going to apply common sense, and let managers figure out what works best for their team in their situation, but guess we're just idiots that need dictated to by the "highly competent, cream of the crop" folks at TBS.

I get about 25% of the work done in the same amount of time in the office as I do at home due to the distractions, so I guess the cutoff bar for what work doesn't get done will just get higher, as I have no intention of working longer hours anymore as the CAF has already gotten their pound of flesh and more.

 

[dimsum]

I was optimistic we were going to apply common sense, and let managers figure out what works best for their team in their situation, but guess we're just idiots that need dictated to by the "highly competent, cream of the crop" folks at TBS.

I guess this is what I point to, when folks say that "the Public Service doesn't treat you like a child unlike the CAF".

 

[brihard]

Certain aspects in Organized crime analysis- some work has to be completed in office but catching people for appointments, which used to be like a day previous- are taking a week or more to just set. Which is a problem of how people are managed- which ironically probably isn’t a guy working from home.

That’s surprising. I’m understanding that by this you mean liaising with your criminal intelligence shop? I understand some has to happen in office, but most should be able to be done remote… We’ve been able to. Face to face is good and convenient sometimes, but our analysts worked fully remotely for most of two years and did so succesfully.

 

[childs56]

What about servers and secure lines?
Are people insured to be working from home, do they have liability coverage? Are they still considered a employee or are you now a contractor? Do they have safe or security rated storage for their paper work, equipment and files?
Do they have have the proper internet/ phone services for commercial use? Are they paying for such?

 

[MJP]

I've got to be honest, things were slow in the first few months of the lockdown due to limited VPN access, so not everyone could log in at the same time, but once they set up most servers and upped the bandwidth, aside from DRMIS it's pretty good.

What is the issue with DRMIS? I work from home and spend 50% of my day in DRMIS/BOBJ/BI without issues. It is a pain to only be able to have it on one screen as a virtual machine but haven't had issues even when doing large data transactions.

 

[kev994]

What about servers and secure lines?
Are people insured to be working from home, do they have liability coverage? Are they still considered a employee or are you now a contractor? Do they have safe or security rated storage for their paper work, equipment and files?
Do they have have the proper internet/ phone services for commercial use? Are they paying for such?

A VPN is a secure line, that’s what it means. Nobody actually uses paper for ‘paperwork’, it’s digital, so there’s nothing to put into a safe. You use your issued cellphone.

 

[dimsum]

What about servers and secure lines?
Are people insured to be working from home, do they have liability coverage? Are they still considered a employee or are you now a contractor?

Why would folks become contractors if they WFH vs at the office?

Do they have safe or security rated storage for their paper work, equipment and files?

No one is taking classified stuff home. CSNI, etc are all at the office as per pre-pandemic.

 

[Navy_Pete]

What is the issue with DRMIS? I work from home and spend 50% of my day in DRMIS/BOBJ/BI without issues. It is a pain to only be able to have it on one screen as a virtual machine but haven't had issues even when doing large data transactions.

No real issue other than it's a bit slow; actually meant to type 'RDIMS' and gestahlted DRMIS, as RDIMS (the document management system) can be massive pain in the ass at time (VPN or otherwise) as every time you go to open or save a document in any of the office products and sometimes even in Outlook RDIMS can glitch and cause things to freeze up or stall.

I occasionally accidentally close the DRMIS virtual machine popup instead of just a tab, and then have to jump back through the hoops to load it back up, but once logged in it is not really much different than the office. Still the German revenge, but think I've figured out how to do the basics for my job for the most part now, so the normal transactions are okay.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Why would folks become contractors if they WFH vs at the office?

So we have a SWE freeze at the moment, but contractors are a normal project line item, so we will actually pay more for a contractor to do the same job (with restrictions and complications) than if we had hired them directly. And for folks that are on the annuity they can draw the pension and do the job, so it's a no brainer.

Also have a lot more flexibility for contractor work location, so if we can hire someone through a contractor to do work on the coasts we'll do that to get the expertise.

It's really stupid, costs us a 30%ish premium or more for the same work, and creates additional overhead on us to manage the contract.

 

[MJP]

No real issue other than it's a bit slow; actually meant to type 'RDIMS' and gestahlted DRMIS, as RDIMS (the document management system) can be massive pain in the ass at time (VPN or otherwise) as every time you go to open or save a document in any of the office products and sometimes even in Outlook RDIMS can glitch and cause things to freeze up or stall.

I occasionally accidentally close the DRMIS virtual machine popup instead of just a tab, and then have to jump back through the hoops to load it back up, but once logged in it is not really much different than the office. Still the German revenge, but think I've figured out how to do the basics for my job for the most part now, so the normal transactions are okay.

I close my window by accident more times than I care to admit.....

Ack on RDIMS, very little experience with it but haven't heard many great things either

 

[Navy_Pete]

I close my window by accident more times than I care to admit.....

Ack on RDIMS, very little experience with it but haven't heard many great things either

We were supposed to go to GCdocs software about a decade ago or something but keeps getting delayed (something to do with the number of files), so still running RDIMS.

It's a legacy software that looks like a windows 3.1 interface, and has separate 'libraries' for the different organizations, so to share stuff between orgs you either have to manually give people access to a different library, or usually put it into a sharepoint.

If you have the actual document number and know which library you can find the file easily enough, but there is so much stuff there most gets lost, and not uncommon to have multiple versions of the same document as well (frequently because of a glitch/access error so someone creates a new file). There is a 'file plan' but it's not necessarily logically organized, or there are similar bits, so the same kind of info is in all kinds of spots. Probably a huge amount of knowledge in there that is just lost because you can't find it without knowing where specifically to look.

It's a pretty terrible system but a bit of a necessary evil, so kind of like DRMIS in some respects.

 

[brihard]

What about servers and secure lines?
Are people insured to be working from home, do they have liability coverage? Are they still considered a employee or are you now a contractor? Do they have safe or security rated storage for their paper work, equipment and files?
Do they have have the proper internet/ phone services for commercial use? Are they paying for such?

Why would employment status change? There’s nothing that legally changes terms and conditions of employment just because you’re authorized (or directed) to work remotely. Information systems up to a certain level can absolutely be done remotely. I gather that in the federal world, that’s Protected B via VPN. Pretty basic stuff.

No reason liability, insurance, workers Comp etc would change. An employer might, if directing an employee to work from home, be reasonably expected to provide ergonomically appropriate office equipment, but that’s super easy. Same thing with providing an appropriate secured storage container. This stuff got figured out satisfactorily a couple years ago. Just now with the move forwards into hybrid models beyond the pandemic, a lot of employers are suddenly hand wringing and pretending that everything that worked effectively during the pandemic suddenly doesn’t really work.

 

[dapaterson]

Friends in white collar jobs in the private sector went largely virtual pre-pandemic, as their companies realized that real property costs were a great way to save.

Indeed, one friend now works 1300-1700, then 2100-0100 daily, as it permits him to cover head office and offshore contract manufacturing hours - he's more productive from his den than he ever was from the company's offices.

 

[dimsum]

Friends in white collar jobs in the private sector went largely virtual pre-pandemic, as their companies realized that real property costs were a great way to save.

Indeed, one friend now works 1300-1700, then 2100-0100 daily, as it permits him to cover head office and offshore contract manufacturing hours - he's more productive from his den than he ever was from the company's offices.

Frankly, as a night owl, that schedule would be great for me.

I really liked working evenings/night shifts on exercise.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No real issue other than it's a bit slow; actually meant to type 'RDIMS' and gestahlted DRMIS, as RDIMS (the document management system) can be massive pain in the ass at time (VPN or otherwise) as every time you go to open or save a document in any of the office products and sometimes even in Outlook RDIMS can glitch and cause things to freeze up or stall.

I occasionally accidentally close the DRMIS virtual machine popup instead of just a tab, and then have to jump back through the hoops to load it back up, but once logged in it is not really much different than the office. Still the German revenge, but think I've figured out how to do the basics for my job for the most part now, so the normal transactions are okay.

You just triggered me with the mention of RDIMS

 

[childs56]

Why would employment status change?

The government has some strange rules about working. Especially when you are not in a office setting on a work site.

There’s nothing that legally changes terms and conditions of employment just because you’re authorized (or directed) to work remotely. Information systems up to a certain level can absolutely be done remotely. I gather that in the federal world, that’s Protected B via VPN. Pretty basic stuff.

It is harder then one thinks especially when dealing with protected material. Storage requirements would be hard to meet as would audits of such property and material.

No reason liability, insurance, workers Comp etc would change.

It would and does change. Legally if you are using your house for business purposes it changes your home insurance, liability etc. It also changes taxation on your place.

An employer might, if directing an employee to work from home, be reasonably expected to provide ergonomically appropriate office equipment, but that’s super easy. Same thing with providing an appropriate secured storage container. This stuff got figured out satisfactorily a couple years ago. Just now with the move forwards into hybrid models beyond the pandemic, a lot of employers are suddenly hand wringing and pretending that everything that worked effectively during the pandemic suddenly doesn’t really work.

These are not average employees, these are government employees who are responsible to handle sensitive material. Working from home should not be the norm. I don't want my personal information hanging out in some ones home office where they can openly share it with others especially without less chance of being caught.