DUI - Effects on Joining?

[brihard]

I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do.

Lots of people play sports. Lots of people have gone to college, and many even to university. Lots of people get good grades. Lots of people aren't flaming retards. The great majority of people aren't criminals.

You made a bloody stupid decision which should add will affect your life negatively for some time. The fact that you appear to not grasp the gravity of your error, nor to take seriously the potentially catastrophic damage you could have done to the lives of others, tells me that we can do without you. I'm particularly stunned that you actually think that at this stage in your life given your extremely recent history and ongoing legal issues that you would be a favourable candidate for ROTP, for commissioning, and most importantly for being entrusted with the lives and well being of soldiers under your command.

You may at some point in the future be just the kind of person we're looking for, but you have considerable maturing to do first. I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.

 

[Ducam]

I just went through the process and admitted my current legal status from the get go.

I got a blowing over charge back in 2010. Finally settled the case in 2011 with a conditional discharge with 1 year probation which included a driving suspension and community hours as well as all the usual mandatory things like keep the peace and be of good behaviour.

I know you mentioned having one year probation so I am assuming you were given a conditional discharge and not a conviction. Difference being a conviction requires a pardon and a conditional discharge is sealed once three years from the date of your sentencing is complete.

I applied once finished probation and had my licence back and I was just very honest and up front about everything they asked about it.

Don't hold anything back.

But I am very sure that you need to wait things out until your probation is complete because it is a legal obligation due to you having to see a parole officer. Can't very well do that if you are shipped to BMQ.

During your waiting time for your probation to end I would suggest finding ways to beef your resume.
Volunteering is a great way to show that you are a model citizen, full time job in a position of authority shows leadership and responsibility, single courses at a college or university show initiative in betting yourself and improving your resume.

Been there and done that. No you didn't rob a bank but a crime is a crime and you have to pay the piper.

 

[PAdm]

I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.

Nicely said and a very fair assessment!  The public has to appreciate the enrolment bar has long since been raised.  We are a professional force, not one desperate for any beating pulse.

 

[SentryMAn]

I went through this 15 years ago.
It's not an easy road and you will need to pad your resume/file a good bit to overcome the decision to drive while impaired.

If you are convicted and hold a criminal record I would suggest to get a pardon(as I have) for the conviction.

The stupidity in your post, well there's no cure for that and only time might change your thoughts.

I STRONGLY urge you to volunteer at MADD events or at some type of organization that deals with accident victims, their families etc.

When you truly think about what the outcome of your actions could have been that night, the lives effected by hopping in that drivers seat, you'll start to appreciate what others are posting here.

As it is now, I personally do not think you understand what has happened.

 

[pointfiveoh]

Lots of people play sports. Lots of people have gone to college, and many even to university. Lots of people get good grades. Lots of people aren't flaming retards. The great majority of people aren't criminals.

You made a bloody stupid decision which should add will affect your life negatively for some time. The fact that you appear to not grasp the gravity of your error, nor to take seriously the potentially catastrophic damage you could have done to the lives of others, tells me that we can do without you. I'm particularly stunned that you actually think that at this stage in your life given your extremely recent history and ongoing legal issues that you would be a favourable candidate for ROTP, for commissioning, and most importantly for being entrusted with the lives and well being of soldiers under your command.

You may at some point in the future be just the kind of person we're looking for, but you have considerable maturing to do first. I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.

I think you and the others above may have misunderstood what I meant. I agree with you, I made a very stupid decision. I could have hurt or killed someone, not to mention myself. I feel incredibly bad about it and have since it happened, even moreso now that I've learned it will likely have a negative impact on my opportunities with the forces. So, please, don't think that I feel what I did is insignificant, it's not, I simply meant that the law is pretty clear on the fact that DUI is not as serious as bank robbery and child molestation. Also, I don't think I'd be a favorable candidate, which is why I'm here asking these questions and asking for the knowledge and experience of those who know more than I do about this subject, such as yourself. I agree also that I have maturing to do, and hope to better myself with or without a place in the forces...I'd just much rather do it with. If you asked me to lead your soldiers at this exact point in my life, I'd tell you I didn't feel I was ready for the responsibility, because I'm not. Would I be ready wit more education, more years gone by in my life, and a solid amount of training in the army? I'm almost sure of it, that's why I'm interested.

Duncam, that information is somewhat relieving, however, it was a conviction I recieved and not a conditional discharge. The fact you were honest about it anyway and were still accepted is good news on that note. Also, I do hold down a full time job in social services as well as working part-time in security (mostly large events/bodyguard services at this point). I have some volunteering under my belt, but maybe thats something I should into doing more of...do any particular places stand to recruiters more? College courses, should my finances permit, are also an idea I'd considered, especially since many are conducted online now. Any other suggestions? Thanks again to everyone, though not all the news made me smile, I appreciate knowing!

 

[DAA]

Alright, fairly clear, thanks for the quick reply, and I'll be sure to use the correct terms next time, haha. My next question is then, based on the fact the waiting periods seem to exceed the term remaining on my probation, and my license will be reinstated prior to then as well (though I dont understand why that matters, Im sure theres applicants who get in with no license to begin with), should I file my application documents and wait to speak with a recruiter, or should I wait until the probation period has totally completed? Wait until the last month? Obviously, like everyone else, Id like to get my application processed as quickly as possible, so I'm just trying to figure out the best time to begin all of this.

Also, if this is even an answerable question (maybe from someone who applied with a record before), how likely is this to get my application denied even if I should apply post-probation and license reinstatement? I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do. Basically I'm asking if I'm on a level playing field with people not scoring perfect in the other areas. Previous posted mentioned it'll be up to a recruiter, I get that, again just looking for an idea of what to expect based on others experiences and knowledge. Thanks again everyone!

You can apply, every Canadian Citizen has the "right" to make application.  Chances are your application will not go anywhere and you will be advised that "Due to judicial obligations which you have declared.....etc, etc, you are currently not eligible for processing, blah blah blah"

Your other question can't be answered with any certainty until after you are "eligible" for processing and then should your file be forwarded to your local CFRC, it will be at the discretion of your MCC (Military Career Counsellor) and not a Recruiter.  And while some people like to "minimize" such offences as DUI and as kindly mentioned above, it is still an offence under the "Criminal Code of Canada" and does have repurcussions.

 

[brihard]

I think you and the others above may have misunderstood what I meant. I agree with you, I made a very stupid decision. I could have hurt or killed someone, not to mention myself. I feel incredibly bad about it and have since it happened, even moreso now that I've learned it will likely have a negative impact on my opportunities with the forces. So, please, don't think that I feel what I did is insignificant, it's not, I simply meant that the law is pretty clear on the fact that DUI is not as serious as bank robbery and child molestation. Also, I don't think I'd be a favorable candidate, which is why I'm here asking these questions and asking for the knowledge and experience of those who know more than I do about this subject, such as yourself. I agree also that I have maturing to do, and hope to better myself with or without a place in the forces...I'd just much rather do it with. If you asked me to lead your soldiers at this exact point in my life, I'd tell you I didn't feel I was ready for the responsibility, because I'm not. Would I be ready wit more education, more years gone by in my life, and a solid amount of training in the army? I'm almost sure of it, that's why I'm interested.

Duncam, that information is somewhat relieving, however, it was a conviction I recieved and not a conditional discharge. The fact you were honest about it anyway and were still accepted is good news on that note. Also, I do hold down a full time job in social services as well as working part-time in security (mostly large events/bodyguard services at this point). I have some volunteering under my belt, but maybe thats something I should into doing more of...do any particular places stand to recruiters more? College courses, should my finances permit, are also an idea I'd considered, especially since many are conducted online now. Any other suggestions? Thanks again to everyone, though not all the news made me smile, I appreciate knowing!

Fair enough. Bear in mind also that Duncam is applying for NCM, whereas you're applying for an ROTP officer position. Those tend to be quite a bit harder to get into than noncommissioned combat arms trades. You have a considerable uphill struggle ahead of you, as the recruiting system is as much concerned with 'what is your potential NOW?' versus 'what potential might you have if you pay for you to go to university for four years?'. You likely won't look like a good bet next to many others. I would have backup plans to ROTP, both within and without the military.

 

[pointfiveoh]

I went through this 15 years ago.
It's not an easy road and you will need to pad your resume/file a good bit to overcome the decision to drive while impaired.

If you are convicted and hold a criminal record I would suggest to get a pardon(as I have) for the conviction.

The stupidity in your post, well there's no cure for that and only time might change your thoughts.

I STRONGLY urge you to volunteer at MADD events or at some type of organization that deals with accident victims, their families etc.

When you truly think about what the outcome of your actions could have been that night, the lives effected by hopping in that drivers seat, you'll start to appreciate what others are posting here.

As it is now, I personally do not think you understand what has happened.

Well, hopefully your opinion changes after reading my above post...again I feel theres been a pretty big misunderstanding about what I meant. However, your idea about volunteering with MADD has given me an idea regarding the latter part of my above post, and maybe that would help to show a recruiter I've learned from what I've done and understand the magnitude.

Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court. I get that most people aren't criminals, but most people aren't applying to the army either, so I'm looking to learn about where I stand with my fellow applicants overall. Thanks everyone.

 

[DAA]

Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court.

There you go again......you are still minimizing the fact that you have been convicted, where others haven't.  And you took responsibility because you had no choice but to.

What's done is done and can't be undone for some time.  Now you have to just live with it.

 

[SeR]

Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court. I get that most people aren't criminals, but most people aren't applying to the army either, so I'm looking to learn about where I stand with my fellow applicants overall. Thanks everyone.

If you didn't take responsibility for it in the first place, odds are that it would have only been a matter of time before you were proven guilty, so that really doesn't change things at all.

When Brihard said that most people aren't criminals, he was referring to other applicants, so I don't really see why you mentioned that most people don't apply to the Forces.

Finally, no need to answer to this last comment. Put yourself in the position of a member of the selection board. Would you rather hire an applicant who has less extra curriculars and slightly lower grades, or would you rather hire the guy who has committed a crime and just finished probation?

Just something to think about.

 

[pointfiveoh]

There you go again......you are still minimizing the fact that you have been convicted, where others haven't.  And you took responsibility because you had no choice but to.

What's done is done and can't be undone for some time.  Now you have to just live with it.

OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last. Also, sure, I may have been convicted at trial, I actually had a very good potential defense in that my breath sample could easily have been contaminated by the prior surgery on my lip. I took responsibility because I wanted to, because I knew what I did was wrong, and that it would only be worse to waste tens of thousands of tax dollars on a trial when I knew I was guilty, even if I was found not guilty.

As for SeR, I'm sure thats what brihard meant, and I'm not arguing with him, but this seems to be becoming more about people ranting on the seriousness of drunk driving or why they think I haven't learned my lesson. Unless you're the one deciding if I'm in or out, none of that really matters. That's why I made the comment you referred to. My honest answer to the latter part of your post is that is judge neither solely based on their grades, or their criminal record, but more on their character. Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind. And before you lose it, yes, I get that having a record period shows you can make bad choices, I'm just saying everyone CAN and does make bad choices, not everyone gets caught, and an even smaller amount take responsibility when they do.

 

[PuckChaser]

OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last.

Yep, and since the CF is full, your record is going to put you at the bottom of the pile. You and another applicant have the exact same file, but yours has a DUI. Guess who gets picked? You made a life choice, pled guilty and now have to live with that life choice. A pardon clears your record and you look like an average joe again. Considering we kick people out for alcohol misconduct, you want to start your career with one strike already against you?

 

[SeR]

Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has.

Or perhaps the person who never had to "learn the hard way" already knew better.  :

There's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am.

As far as the CF (or any employer) is concerned, they don't care if you are "statistically [less] likely" to re-offend. What they care about is that you have a criminal past, whereas other applicants don't.

 

[DAA]

OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last. Also, sure, I may have been convicted at trial, I actually had a very good potential defense in that my breath sample could easily have been contaminated by the prior surgery on my lip. I took responsibility because I wanted to, because I knew what I did was wrong, and that it would only be worse to waste tens of thousands of tax dollars on a trial when I knew I was guilty, even if I was found not guilty.

As for SeR, I'm sure thats what brihard meant, and I'm not arguing with him, but this seems to be becoming more about people ranting on the seriousness of drunk driving or why they think I haven't learned my lesson. Unless you're the one deciding if I'm in or out, none of that really matters. That's why I made the comment you referred to. My honest answer to the latter part of your post is that is judge neither solely based on their grades, or their criminal record, but more on their character. Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind. And before you lose it, yes, I get that having a record period shows you can make bad choices, I'm just saying everyone CAN and does make bad choices, not everyone gets caught, and an even smaller amount take responsibility when they do.

You're minimizing things by saying "I got caught where others didn't".  You can't use that as a defense for something that was wrong.  So I don't hear anyone who was caught robbing a bank or comitting a more henious crime saying..........

Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court.

I can honestly say, that should you ever get called by the CF for an interview or any other employer for that fact, you will be ask the question.  And if you respond by saying "not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for"

Did you also know, that you may very well not be "admissable" for entry into the US or any other foreign country and that you may also not be "bondable" for civilian employment where such a requirement exists.

After being caught and taking responsibility is neither here nor there.

If you want to apply to the CF, go right ahead, it's your right.  Nobody here on this forum is going to be able to accurately judge and or assess your credentials for acceptance.

 

[brihard]

Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind.

:facepalm:

No. See, most of us are simply smart enough from the outset not to commit criminal offences like that. Nobody's impressed that you've 'learned the hard way', because most people are never dumb enough to need to. That scores you zero points at all.

Take that rationalization and try to apply it to negligent homicide, fraud, or sexual assault. Would it impress you at all? I hope not.

You came into this thread wanting to know how your standing against other meritorious candidates will be in light of your criminal record: Nice simple answer for you; not good. As I said, have other plans ready to carry you through the next several years when this doesn't pan out for you.

 

[TYLERgibson]

You made the choices to be a fuckup and now you're dealing with it. It doesn't matter if you only got cuaght and charged when others don't. Simply put, you fucked up, deal with it and move on.

 

[pointfiveoh]

Anyway, just for the person who down the road searches the same phrase I did and finds this, or for the rest of you with old information, "pardons" don't exist anymore. One can now obtain a "record suspension," which is effectively the same thing, though there are some important differences.

And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?

Well, we clearly understand each other, no sense talking in circles...

I get your points, hopefully you get mine. You'd actually be surprised how many employers overlook DUI being on your record, including the ministry of community safety and correctional services here in Ontario. Not saying they're right or wrong for it, just saying in general.

Though it clearly isn't the best news, I appreciate you guys responding and regardless of what the first recruiter says, I'm never going to give up on this. Any further experiences or information anyone has would still be greatly appreciated

 

[brihard]

And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?t well, we clearly understand each other, no sense talking in circles.

All the deflection and obfuscation in the world doesn't change the fact that you were convicted of drunk driving, a criminal offense, and that you continue to try to minimize and negate the significance and severity of what you did. You're simply digging yourself deeper and bringing further contempt and scorn down upon yourself.

It's an old axiom of military strategy to never reinforce failure...

 

[SeR]

And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?

Now you're just being stubborn and trying to convince yourself that your crime is insignificant. There's quite a difference between speeding and driving under the influence. If there wasn't, the consequences would be the same.

For the record, speeding isn't even a criminal offense (unless your 50 km/h over the limit). Drunk driving is.

 

[JesseWZ]

Hi POINTFIVEOH

I'm an MP, Military Police Cpl at a fairly large and busy base. I've attended numerous calls for DUIs, public intoxication (which in the CF is a chargeble offense), domestic violence involving alcohol and others. In fact, I think if you take away the mundane calls (building insecurities, lost Military ID) more than 60% of my files involve alcohol.

If you can't figure out why no one around here seems to take a liking to you, it's because the CF is a small community. The PMQs (if you ever live in them) are usually a smaller community still. No one likes you because you are the guy that can't take responsibility for his actions, and no one wants you to hit their kids, spouses or parents.

Most impaired drivers we stop have been charged, or stopped at the very least numerous times. Almost never is it a persons first time driving impaired, and very rarely it is their last.



And for anyone else who is curious:

Probation, statuatory release, community service, and parole are a part of your sentence. They are all considered a judicial obligation.