Drill and Military Tradition

[Michael Dorosh]

Military custom and tradition is somewhat misunderstood as being archaic.  This breeds inflexibility as soldiers perceive anything that's "always been done that way" to be a custom or tradition and, therefore, not to be messed with.  Not so.

- Adding a quote or cypher to your signature block (i.e. VP, Ubique, Pro Patria etc. etc.);
- Battle crys ("Chimo!" "Advance!" et al.);

A new tradition can be instituted if circumstances support it.

There new "traditions" are scarcely worth the effort.  The signature block seems especially trite - especially if you are signing in Gaelic and sending to someone who has no idea what your regimental motto is.  "Sincerely" seems to work fine. 

As for the 'battle crys' - no engineer ever built a bridge under fire while screaming "Chimo" - the use of that word on this message board (much less on dismissal from a brigade parade, which was embarrassing to watch) seems particularly sophomoric to me, and instead of giving the appearance of professionalism, always signalled to me that the writer hadn't quite figured out the difference between military tradition and stupid shit that American high school football players do.

In my humble opinion, of course.

I agree with the need for changing traditions.  The new way to wear a poppy was discussed in depth here; I had no problem with it, even given the accepted rationale.  Times do change.  Inventing traditions out of whole cloth - especially when they are patterned after our un-military seeming cousins to the south - seems like not a good way to go.

Incidentally, this isn't a slam on the Americans.  Their military has always seemed "un-military" to us.  In WW II, we thought them unmilitary because they called petrol "gasoline" and torches "flashlights".  To a Canadian, the American terms were everyday, the British terms somehow "military."  We are no longer in the same boat, but can still spot some of the habits they pick up from civilians (patent leather shoes, those God-awful marching bands with Sousaphones and tinny sounding drums) and call them "unmilitary" when in fact, they aren't - just different from us.

Anyway - DEEDS not WORDS.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm not on the "for" side for the sake of agreeing with the "old guard"  , but because I've come to the conclusion - through reading of the history of armed forces combined with my own limited first-hand experience on the matter - that Drill is one of those constants in the history of good quality fighting forces.

It has been with professional fighting units since the Greeks and the Romans began to fight in close order and to dominate the battlefield - one could even say it started earlier if they went back enough source material.  I refuse to believe that Drill has suddenly, after thousands of years, become irrelevant with the advant of "4th Generation Warfare" and "3 Block War".

Digging out my copy of the USMC Small Wars Manual (which is still very relevent today) I can see in the recommended daily training schedules that there are blocks reserved for Drill training.  Consider that this was for a Force that was on a constant expeditionary footing, spending most of its time deployed to complex conflicts fighting with "asymmetric" irregular forces - hmm, if it was relevent for them, perhaps it's relevant for us?


Infanteer (2...3...1)

 

[Rfn]

I'll echo the idea. The point has been made by Infanteer, PBI and the rest, way more eloquently than I could. I can't remember who said it, but I recall someone in history saying something to the effect that a good indication of an armies effectiveness is it's standard of personal drill.

Futuretrooper:

I'm just worrying that when I got to BMQ I might make a mistake and get kicked out for not doing drill properly. I know its a stupid question, but I'm not very knowledgeable on this topic.

Just pay attention, drive your body hard on the square and do your best. If you have trouble with it, ask your instructor for extra training after hours. You may even end up enjoying it. It's extremely rare for a recruit to get the boot for poor drill. (never heard of it happening, but technically possible)

Just between you & me, if you could fail BMQ for making mistakes learning drill, me and I bet lots of the posters here, would have been out long ago.

 

[Britney Spears]

You're an OCdt, we understand.

 

[Zipper]

So with the concensus that seems to be on the "drill smart, look and fight well" side. Whats the chance of these things happening? Or is this another idea of what "should" happen and never will?

Good posts by the way.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Want to hear what General Crerar had to say?

As an indication that a good selling job in this matter had been done to the Canadian troops during their long and difficult period of training, and re-training, in the United Kingdom, I was able to pass on to all ranks, 1st Canadian Corps, in February, 1943, a remark made to me by the Commander in Chief Home Forces when I had been with him on a visit to the Eighth Army in Africa. General Paget had then said to me that he could always recognize Canadian troops, when off duty and at a distance by their excellent bearing and turn-out. He had added that their individual saluting, when met, seemed so spontaneous and friendly it was always a great pleasure to return the compliment.

Well, a few weeks later I was in London one Sunday afternoon. The street I was walking down was deserted--as usual in that city on that day and at that time--when, suddenly, around the next corner hove into view six soldiers, three Canadians and three Americans, arm-in-arm, in pairs and obviously "celebrating". It was a somewhat embarrassing prospect I had to face--but there was no alternative but to go forward and meet it.

As I approached the cheerful and somewhat unsteady, sextet my presence just couldn't help being noticed. There was some remark made by the leading Canadian and, in an instant, the Canadian soldiers disentangled themselves from their American friends, much to the latters' physical confusion, and marched by me giving me really a "super" salute which I tried to return as if nothing unusual was apparent. A second or so later I passed the three American soldiers who had been so abruptly deprived of the mutual support of their Canadian friends and consequently had been left in what might be termed "a bit of huddle." It was really very hard not to laugh at their confusion and the surprised look on their faces. I maintained outward composure but, inwardly, I chuckled delightedly, at the way our fellows had "shown their stuff" in spite of their personal distractions of that moment. And, as I walked away, I thought that General Paget had certainly had the soundest of grounds for his previous congratulatory remarks.

 

[Kat Stevens]

- no engineer ever built a bridge under fire while screaming "Chimo" - the use of that word on this message board (much less on dismissal from a brigade parade, which was embarrassing to watch) seems particularly sophomoric to me,

Anyway - DEEDS not WORDS.

Indeed....why not inflate your bag and squeeze us out a tune...?

CHIMO to all my Sapper brothers, all the rest feel free to ignore...  Kat

 

[Infanteer]

Indeed....why not inflate your bag and squeeze us out a tune...?

Why am I laughing right now?

 

[pbi]

When combined with drill, certain traditions can bring a unique "flair" to a parade or ceremony BUT we must not allow tradition to make our Regiments/branch/corps standard of drill to become idiosyncratic.  There is only one drill manual for the CF, Reg and Reserve, just as there is only one dress manual, one set of CFAOs, QR&O, DAOD etc.

Drill, if it is to be a meaningful part of unit tradition and ceremonial, IMHO needs to reflect the heritage of the unit in question. There are well-founded differences in drill between Highland, Rifle and Line Infantry units(just to give three examples). I am not a Rifleman, but I absolutely respect their right to "Double Past", to march at the "trail arms", and to crack along at 140 PTM vice the 120 we do in the Line (PPCLI do not do Light Infantry Drill...) or the 110 the Highlanders do. There are differences between PPCLI and RCR on ceremonial parades.  Attempts to squish us all in to one style of drill were (thankfully...) pretty well abandoned not long after Unification. I, for one, see no point in resurrection of pointless conformity when the diversity contributes to unit identity and esprit.

Cheers.

 

[Haggis]

Attempts to squish us all in to one style of drill were (thankfully...) pretty well abandoned not long after Unification. I, for one, see no point in resurrection of pointless conformity when the diversity contributes to unit identity and esprit.

Agreed, to a point.  Personally I like swaggering along to the pipes at a leisurely 110 paces per minute.  But when on courses or on a tri-service tasking (i.e Canada Remembers) there is no point in persisting with Regimental drill idiosyncrasies. In the early 80's I served on Ceremonial Guard as a Highlander and had to adjust, just as I also had to adjust while on a mixed SLC a few years later.  In these instances it is the standard published in "201" that will always prevail.

 

[pbi]

In a "composite" training environment, or in a unit such as the CG in which the appearance and effect of the parade depends upon a common standard of drill, I agree with you. On Regimental parades, I believe that traditional drill practices should be followed.

Cheers.

 

[dangerboy]

Just gets hard to remember not to do a regimental right dress on a non-PPCLI parade when it has been drilled into you.

 

[Glorified Ape]

A minor question: I was watching a news story the other night about that woman in Borden with HIV/AIDS and there was a clip of troops marching on the base. Since the only drill I've done is on course in St. Jean maybe it's significantly different but I noticed that their arms came up to an abysmally low height (maybe navel height). Is the whole "arm oustretched parallel with the shoulder" thing just a recruit/ocdt school thing?

 

[larry Strong]

NO. The last time I looked at "Drill and Cerimonial" there was only one way of marching. What you saw was IMHO a result of a relaxation of standards, and of most of the points brought up in this thread. It bloody disgraceful!

 

[x-grunt]

A minor question: I was watching a news story the other night about that woman in Borden with HIV/AIDS and there was a clip of troops marching on the base. Since the only drill I've done is on course in St. Jean maybe it's significantly different but I noticed that their arms came up to an abysmally low height (maybe navel height). Is the whole "arm oustretched parallel with the shoulder" thing just a recruit/ocdt school thing?

My info might be completely out of date, it's been awhile. But if memory serves, the official height of the arm swing in the manual of drill and ceremonial is waist high, except for drill under arms which is shoulder high. However, I seldom saw this. Most recruit training establishments, Combat Arms units, and PRes units seem to swing arms shoulder high.

Again, it's been a long time since I perused the manual. Maybe it's changed since I left?

 

[Acorn]

Just gets hard to remember not to do a regimental right dress on a non-PPCLI parade when it has been drilled into you.

Took me years to get rid of that stampy-foot thing.

I recall one pde I was on (Remembrance Day, IIRC) where we had multiple bands. Nothing worse than marching part way to a standard 120/min, and then having the pipe band kick in at their 110. Looked like a bag of bumblebees.

Acorn

 

[Brad Sallows]

You'd love watching the result of the Battle of the Bands every Nov 11 on the Hastings St echo chamber west of Victory Square, then.

 

[Acorn]

A few years trying to match step with 2 PPCLI's "Corps of Bums" is good enough trg for any adversity.

Acorn

 

[Edward Campbell]

We did a Div parade in Gagetown back in about 60.  We had three brigades on parade, I think, with all the bells and whistles including some horses, some guns, some tanks, a few (three, maybe?) guards in ceremonial full dress, dozens of 'guards' in bush dress (which was carted to Gagetown on truck mounted racks covered with sheets) and worn just once.  There were at least a half dozen bands â “ more I suspect, in addition to the various pipes and drums (Regiment of Canadian Guards and Black Watch) in both 2 and 3 brigades.  I didn't see much from my position somewhere in the centre of mass but we heard horror stories about RSMs having screaming fits and nervous breakdowns, and, and, and ... eventually the officers strolled on to parade and I seem to remember that the generals rode past in jeeps and then we sort of marched past.  :

 

[Drummy]

Edward Campbell,

I had my turn at that in 1957 with 2 Cdn Gds before we went to Germany. That Div parade was held at Blissville "Airport", the dustbowl of New Brunswick.  :

IIRC, there were 8 or 9 Inf Bns, 2 Armd Regts, 2 Art Regts, and assorted support units on parade along with the respective bands, and vehicles for the Drive Past.

I don't think there was ever that much dust in the Sahara. 

All the best    Drummy