Drill and Military Tradition

[a_majoor]

Drill, if it is to be a meaningful part of unit tradition and ceremonial, IMHO needs to reflect the heritage of the unit in question. There are well-founded differences in drill between Highland, Rifle and Line Infantry units(just to give three examples). I am not a Rifleman, but I absolutely respect their right to "Double Past", to march at the "trail arms", and to crack along at 140 PTM vice the 120 we do in the Line (PPCLI do not do Light Infantry Drill...) or the 110 the Highlanders do. There are differences between PPCLI and RCR on ceremonial parades.  Attempts to squish us all in to one style of drill were (thankfully...) pretty well abandoned not long after Unification. I, for one, see no point in resurrection of pointless conformity when the diversity contributes to unit identity and esprit.

You have inadvertently brought up one of the "Blandian" points. Rifle drill didn't even exist until aprox 1805, and was a tactical innovation designed to bring the superior fire of the rifle armed soldiers to bear. Even the idea of marching and performing drill movements to a cadence of 120 beats to the minute was established in the 1700s, allowing units which adopted this to perform drills (including the all important loading and firing of the musket or matchlock) twice as fast as opponents using the "traditional" 60 beats per minute. The reason for Highland regiments to march at 110 beats to the minute are unclear (at least to me), but there may actually be some sort of reason which was practical in 1600....

The maintaining of traditions rooted in the past is one thing, but besides a dedicated history buff, how many of the troops are aware or even care about Sir John Moore's "Light Infantry drill". Indeed Bland pointed out our drill is far more "formalized" than when it was first created during the Napoleonic era. To be usefull, traditions should have some bearing on the present day circumstances of the unit, telling the troops how and why their unit is differently equipped or employed (which really is not the case for the QOR, Brocks or Winnipeg Rifles once they get out in the field, soldiers and tactics being very much the same as those of the RHFC, RCR or R22er).

While I understand and agree with many of the arguments for drill, I will say that spending hours to teach drill movements the soldiers will never use again, or simply teaching drill badly (and teaching 40 candidates a 40 minute drill period with just two instructors, as at St Jean, is hardly a recipie for teaching or learning much of anything) is not very productive, and will probably not induce the qualities that are so often championed by proponents of drill.

 

[pbi]

The maintaining of traditions rooted in the past is one thing, but besides a dedicated history buff, how many of the troops are aware or even care about Sir John Moore's "Light Infantry drill". Indeed Bland pointed out our drill is far more "formalized" than when it was first created during the Napoleonic era. To be usefull, traditions should have some bearing on the present day circumstances of the unit, telling the troops how and why their unit is differently equipped or employed (which really is not the case for the QOR, Brocks or Winnipeg Rifles once they get out in the field, soldiers and tactics being very much the same as those of the RHFC, RCR or R22er).

While I understand and agree with many of the arguments for drill, I will say that spending hours to teach drill movements the soldiers will never use again, or simply teaching drill badly (and teaching 40 candidates a 40 minute drill period with just two instructors, as at St Jean, is hardly a recipie for teaching or learning much of anything) is not very productive, and will probably not induce the qualities that are so often championed by proponents of drill.

Both of these arguments represent failures of leadership rather than any intrinsic weakness in the argument in favour of drill. In the first one, you assume that leaders in a unit with unique drill will fail to explain its origin and use its uniqueness to instill unit pride. This could certainly be the case in a unit with indifferent leaders who didn't care about unit tradition. However, when I grew up in the RRegtC in Toronto, I was quite familiar with a number of folks in the QOR (about the only unit we got along with...), most of whom impressed by their clear and strong knowledge of why they did Rifle drill. They did not all recall Sir John, but they certainly knew that things such as performing several movements on a single word of command were done to instill alertness and quick thinking. The attempt to draw a direct connection between ceremonmial or traditional practices and what is currently done in the battlefield is really pretty spurious: IMHO on those grounds the USMC would be quite embarassed, as a force with many strong and deep-rooted traditions that do not necessarily extend onto the battlefield, Senior NCO parade appointments wearing swords is an example-why don't they carry swords in battle? If you extend your argument to its logical conclusion we would be rootless as a military culture since any "traditions" we might establish would be outmoded as soon as we went into the next battle.

In the second example, if leaders do not know how to teach, or teach the wrong way, or teach things that are not required (ie: teaching Advance in Review Order may not be required on a BMQ that is under time pressure...) then they are at fault no matter whether you are teaching drill, map using, or PT.

Cheers,

 

[pbi]

minor question: I was watching a news story the other night about that woman in Borden with HIV/AIDS and there was a clip of troops marching on the base. Since the only drill I've done is on course in St. Jean maybe it's significantly different but I noticed that their arms came up to an abysmally low height (maybe navel height). Is the whole "arm oustretched parallel with the shoulder" thing just a recruit/ocdt school thing?

Be careful not to use Borden as an example of a high standard of dress, drill or deportment. It isn't, from what I can see.

Cheers.

 

[ricksim]

Hi, i am a foreigner from Malaysia, nevertheless a drill and military enthusiast, and in search of a ceremonial drill manual that covers trooping of colors. Any help i can get from here?

 

[Steel Badger]

Not so funny Borden story about drill


In 91 my father died after 30 years of service to the army (RCA and RCASC). As the funeral column rolled towards the Protestant Chapel on base....I obseved (from the veh with the family) two LOG Corporals in Garrison Dress standing like Gumbies with their hands firmly in their pockets, staring slack jawed as the hearse passed.

I dont know who was angrier.....myself or the Assisting Officer......or the old man's Sergeant-Major.

I'm sure the old man would have had some acerbic comment for the two supposed junior NCO's...who probably thru no fault of their own...had never been told...OR HAD REINFORCED....about the paying of compliments...He probably would have also included Hellyer in his approbation.....


I observe this on a daily basis with soldiers who graduate from their basic training unware that they should doff their civilian caps to commisioned officers or salute cenotaphs and memorials.....

This is probably the fault of the training system who view anything not sharp end to be a waste....(Years ago while teaching a GMT Recruit crse we had a "staff learner" drop by to investigate the requirement for teaching the backward and forward action of the C1 Rifle...The staff wallahs position was that "you didnt need to know how a car works to drive it" All present ...reg and reserve politely told him he was away wi the fairies............but soon there after the backward and forward action was removed from the CTS.....)

While sharp end training had definitely improved over the last 10 years......the other side has been neglected.
While many here say we waste time on "ancient battle drills" they forget that the army that soldier thru WW2 and Korea used the teaching of drill and ceremonial to motivate their troops for battle. Certainly, as veterans of my regiment say "if used for chickenshit it was useless" but used intelligently it "instilled pride in self, the unit and the Army as a whole....and made us better soldiers for it."
Certainly one of our vets who was a PL Sgt in NorthWest Europe with us and a CQMS at Kapyong with the Patricias' confirms that while drill and cer is of limited use on the battlefield.......used wisely it creates the soldier who wins on the battle field....

We have to be carefull not to "throw the baby out wi the bath water"....

Soldiers should FEEL that soldiering is a proud calling....not just a job......

SB

(Not like the LOG Major that accosted me one day after I marched my Platoon passed the RCASC memorial and gave the eye's right.....
The Major stopped me and asked me what I was doing...I replied that I was paying compliments to the RCASC memorial........The Major had no clue about the memorial but thought that the "eyes-right" was not required............sad but true...)

 

[Haggis]

During the last PSAC strike I was tasked (along with an Air Force MWO) as a Picket Line Monitor.  Early one morning, I was embroiled in a heated discussion with the PSAC Picket Captain about entry rights for employees who wanted to cross the picket line.  During this discussion, a visiting Air Force LCol approached the line.  So I stopped talking to the Picket Captain, slammed to the chow and rendered a sharp high five to the quite surprised LCol.  The line parted to allow him in.

Surprisingly, the Picket Captain was much easier to deal with after that.

 

[Old Sweat]

Several years ago an artillery CWO was posted to DLR from regimental duty. To his horror, on his first morning at the bus stop, he noticed a couple of untidy air force NCOs waiting in the shelter. To add to his horror, just before the next bus arrived, a general stolled up to the bus stop. The CWO saluted him, which seemed to take the great man by surprise, while the air people not only ignored the general, but even elbowed their way past him to get seats on the bus.

The next morning when the general arrived, the CWO had the airmen formed up and called them to attention, while he saluted. When the bus arrived, he kept them formed up until the general had time to board the bus, at which point he fell them out.

The third morning he and the general had the bus stop all to themselves, except for some civilians, who after all, don't count.

 

[pbi]

Steel Badger and Old Sweat: Good posts. Badger, your story reminds me of one I posted a while back, While I was a subby in 3PPCLI in the early 1980's, we did a ceremonial parade in downtown Victoria. While formed up in "battalion in line" behind the Legislature, waiting to go on, two very young female Naval SubLts wandered down the sidewalk along the frontage of the battalion, chattering and giggling to each other. They passed our Colours with their heads down, oblivious. The CO waited until they had just cleared the Colours, then boomed out "Ladies: get back here and salute my Colours!". The two stopped dead in their tracks, then sheepishly slunk back, saluted red-facedly, and scuttled away. A satisfied murmur passed down the ranks of the battalion. So, all to say, ignorance by those who should know better is sadly nothing new.

Cheers.

 

[Haggis]

PBI:

That's a perennial problem in Ottawa with all manner of folks either not saluting when the colours of the Ceremonial Guard pass each day (Actually it's either the colours of the CGG or GGFG as the CG is not a "line" Regiment) or completely ignoring that big granite thingy with the soldier stautes on top on Elgin Strret.

Every year reminders are published in CFSU (Ottawa) Routine orders.

On my last tour, I jacked up several soldiers in a particular camp for not saluting officers.   Some told me they "thought" that they didn't have to salute Reserve officers.   Others would "play invisible" when an officer walked by.

Steel Badger knows of whom and where I speak.

 

[Foxhound]

We did a Div parade in Gagetown back in about 60.   We had three brigades on parade, I think, with all the bells and whistles including some horses, some guns, some tanks, a few (three, maybe?) guards in ceremonial full dress, dozens of 'guards' in bush dress (which was carted to Gagetown on truck mounted racks covered with sheets) and worn just once.   There were at least a half dozen bands â “ more I suspect, in addition to the various pipes and drums (Regiment of Canadian Guards and Black Watch) in both 2 and 3 brigades.   I didn't see much from my position somewhere in the centre of mass but we heard horror stories about RSMs having screaming fits and nervous breakdowns, and, and, and ... eventually the officers strolled on to parade and I seem to remember that the generals rode past in jeeps and then we sort of marched past.   :

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Edward, sounds like your parade in, 60 was the dress rehearsal for the Div. parade we did on RV '81.  Three bands, combats, work dress, CF's and ceremonial dress, everything from jeeps to Loepards in the drive past.  Three guys with heat stroke.  The brigadier almost had the parade do the march past with ordered arms.  I disinctly remember the following command, "Parade will march past in column of route in quick time.  By the right, (sounds of CWO smashing butt plate on the ground to get brigadier's attention), SHOULDER ARMS!"

Speaking of different regimental drill standards, my recruit platoon had to be re-trained in drill during TQ3 due to the fact that back in '78, the RCR had a three-count pause between drill movements, i.e.: One - two, three, four - One!  We looked like basket of kittens doing drill those first few weeks.  Wouldnt you know, shortly after graduating and recieving our hat badges, the RCR decided to adopt the same count as the rest of the CF.   :blotto:

 

[Haggis]

Speaking of different regimental drill standards, my recruit platoon had to be re-trained in drill during TQ3 due to the fact that back in '78, the RCR had a three-count pause between drill movements, i.e.: One - two, three, four - One!  Wouldnt you know, shortly after graduating and recieving our hat badges, the RCR decided to adopt the same count as the rest of the CF.   :blotto:

I remember that three-count pause!  Got me in a lot of trouble on JLC in 1980!

Then, in 1981, I went to CG and learned a whole bunch of new British style idiosyncrasies on the Drill and Duties course from a Patricia Sgt-Maj.  Notwithstanding that, my standard of personal drill went through the roof and I have never had a problem on course since.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I used to get wonky looks from young guys for this all the time. Any memorial to dead guys got a high five. Any national flag also got a high five. It cost me nothing, personally, other than a spot of effort and respect.

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[Acorn]

Arthur,

As an historian you probably know that drill originated as a battlefield necessity. Marching pace has it's origins in the 17thC (I think - making the mistake of going from memory) and the need to ensure that the muskets and pikes were synchronized. As the musket began to dominate the battlefield drill became more important. As you mention, the speed of execution had battlefield significance.

That's all history. Why do most, if not all, established armies today use drill for ceremonial purposes? It certainly has no direct battlefield application. I would suggest one think to the visceral feeling when a couple of hundred boots land with a simultaneous "crack." Pride. I hate drill practice, but the feeling when the parade is executed is something else.

As to the 110 for Highlanders it was once explained to me thus: "picture the damage to yer bits, hammering alang at 120 wi' a wool kilt held doon by a sporran."

Acorn

 

[TCBF]

"Bland made two points: Drill as taught stresses "unthinking obedience",

I seem to remember a Maj Bland in the Hussars in Petawawa in the early 80s.  I do remember the article coming out.  Also some comments about main and secondary armament drills requiring some "unthinking obedience".  But I do recall the busy times as well, so I see both sides.

It seems that now, we spend most of our time "Administering" our troops rather than training them.  We fill out "returns" so second-floor soldiers can enter them into heir computers, then two weeks later more returns so the previously entered data needs to be verified, then more returns when the forms change, then more when we re-org because we are actually getting on a real C-5B Galaxy, and God knows you can't do that without re-orging at least twice, then more returns because it is too inconvenient for the second-floor soldiers to collate the data they already have while we are on a patrol.  They just ask us for more returns and then go suntanning or to the gym while we roll in covered in green dust, feed and water our Coyotes and our men, then go and fill out more returns.

Have I made my point?

Tom

 

[pbi]

Haggis: the situation in the area around NDHQ is sometimes quite shocking. I was last at the National Monument in 2001, when I took my family to see the National Remembrance Ceremony before we left Ontario to move to Winnipeg. Before and after the event, I was amazed to see various numpties in uniform stumbling by the National Monument, as well as the Tomb, without even paying it a second glance, never mind a salute. I even had a former NDHQ-ite tell me once that "we didn't have to salute the monument-nobody does it".

As we have said many times in many places on this site, we have a long way to go to instill the warrior spirit in some of our people; a spirit which to me includes respect for fallen comrades at all times and not just on Nov 11. We still have too many idle little time servers wandering about.

Cheers.

 

[Edward Campbell]

This still infuriates me, for personal reasons, and, on a distressingly regular basis (but not as often as I should, I admit), I accost serving officers and NCOs on the street - on the National War Memorial apron, actually - to try to remind them that:

"¢ It is a military custom to pay respects to our fallen;

"¢ They have received a direct, lawful command to do so - which they have just disobeyed;

"¢ They have a duty to pay respects and to correct junior ranks who fail to do so, too; and

"¢ No one who matters cares if ignorant civilians give them strange looks; doing the right thing and doing it right is never, ever a cause for embarrassment.

Most look at me as though I just landed from some strange planet; many - the majority, I'm afraid - do not stop long enough to hear what I have to say; several are quite rude and tell me to f*ck off and mind my own business; a few stop, listen, say, â ?Sorry, sir,â ?. salute and go about their business.

I was quite loud and rude to an officer in my former regiment who attempted to brush me off; since I could see his name tag I promised that his regimental mentor would receive a full report, which would, likely, be hazardous to his career prospects; he stopped, listened, apologized and did the right thing, etc.

A couple or three years back I dressed down a serving general officer of my acquaintance, in public, on the War Memorial apron - he bought me a drink in the Army Officers Mess about a week later, on a Friday, and apologized, in a loud, clear voice to all present - a goodly crowd.  Well done, him.

I wish I could say that army officers and NCOs, especially arms officers and NCOs were better than the others - not so, in my, personal experience.

 

[a_majoor]

I am at fault for not being as clear as I should have been, ceremonial and especially paying respect is very important, and has been since ancient times.

What I was trying to get at was the fact that fossilizing drill movements which made tactical sense in 1805 may not be the best way of going about it. Drill, ceremonials and tradition should be updated to reflect current traditions more closely. I was once reamed for attempting to do such a thing, by suggesting that the platoon "fall in" with the sections in in battle order (BACD), and the weapons det either supernumerary or parcelled out one at the end of each section. From the reaction that got, the planet would have imploded and perhaps the universe itself would have been at risk, yet all I was suggesting was the platoon's parade formation reflect their field formation, a not so subtle means of reminding troops of where they need to be in the field.

A side argument might be made about custom and tradition being needed for unit cohesion, the numbered battalions in WWI were often created out of thin air and had no traditions, except the ones they themselves established after the battles (and which mostly died when the CEF was stood down after the war).

Lest the reader think I am some sort of fat staff weenie (only the staff weenie part is true  ;D), I almost launched myself onto the parade square at RMC during a break at the 2003 Military History Symposium after observing some RMC cadets receiving perhaps the poorest drill lession I have ever seen, delivered by a "round" NCO in rumpled and untidy CADPADT as well. (Stop and think how bad your CADPADT would have to be before it is that noticeable!). Luckily common sense and one of the other attendees stopped me (although the cadets would have had a mind blowing experience of some wide eyed civvie in a suit and tie dressing down the instructor then putting them through the paces for the next 20 min).

If we are serious about drill and ceremonial as a vehicle for producing good soldiers, then the CF as a whole needs to put in the time and effort to do so. If we are "Blandian", then we need to think of some alternatives to achieve the same ends. Ignoring the problem or not addressing it will simply result in more horror stories like the ones we are reading here.

 

[Meridian]

I used to get wonky looks from young guys for this all the time. Any memorial to dead guys got a high five. Any national flag also got a high five. It cost me nothing, personally, other than a spot of effort and respect.

CHIMO,   Kat

Someone from RMC can clarify the point, I'm sure, but the parade square flag is saluted at all times when you cross her.

When I used to do it on our (mediocre, more like parking lot) parade square at CFSJ, more out of personal respect for the flag and country than anything, many colleagues commented it was unnecessary and some Quebecers even claimed stupid. 

It is unfortunately sad that paying respects is now a chore, and that lifting your hand up for a brief moment is somehow a task in and of itself. 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I sometimes think I am the only one to salute the national flag flying in front of our Armoures; hope I'm wrong but it is distressing to see all the slugs stroll past it as if it doesn't exist every evening.

Then again, I haven't witnessed any Highlanders walk past in the few months. ;D

 

[Infanteer]

As we have said many times in many places on this site, we have a long way to go to instill the warrior spirit in some of our people; a spirit which to me includes respect for fallen comrades at all times and not just on Nov 11. We still have too many idle little time servers wandering about.

I remember stopping off by the Spr Holopina Memorial on the side of the road in BiH - all of us snapped off a salute as we approached it; it was just instinctive.  The fact that many are not doing the same leads me to think that, as an institution, our eyes are off the ball.

This is bad, real bad.

We've got average Bloggins on the news who look like a gaggle of doofuses trying to march (and doing it poorly), we have Soldiers on the street who dress like dumpy mechanics and we have Soldiers who cannot pay the most basic of military courtesies in the public.

As I said before, it seems the Drill, Dress, and Deportment, those three "D"s that underscore Discipline, the foundation of professionalism and military excellence, have been relegated to the backburners.  This needs to change - we talk about how switched on some other Forces are, like the USMC or the RM, but if anyone looks, they are also the most well turned out soldiers on the parade-square or in public.  A. Majoor probably has some good points on changing drill for the times, but this doesn't mean we ignore it or, worse, do it poorly.

I have a few suggestions on how to remedy this situation:

- A service dress, basically toned down DEU's, that all soldiers will wear when not in the field or conducting training at the battalion lines.  People will probably disagree with me on this point, but I agree with the USMC philosophy that "Combats" are a working uniform and, like a mechanic working with the greasy rig, we shouldn't present ourselves in public in them.  

- Strict enforcement of the 3 "D"s.  This is the job of the NCO's.  If troops aren't doing what they are supposed to, then look to their NCO's.  If the NCO's aren't doing their job, move up the chain and question why the Officer's aren't getting a knuckle on their subordinates (and themselves).  Accountability has to be pressed up the line.  As USMC dress regs say; "Marines set the example. In any uniform we will maintain the highest standards of appearance -- at all times -- in all places. Exercise good judgment, if there's a doubt -- don't stop" - why can't we apply this to the 3 "D"s?  A regulation like this should come from the top and be enforce uniformly from top to bottom (ie: Big bone of mine - if you're above the rank of LtCol, get a haircut; I spend 15 of my own dollars every two weeks to look sharp and not get jacked on parade, so can you - lead by example, right?)

- Finally, the 3 D's along with other things, need to be really hammered on as an essential cornerstone of professionalism; this all starts at the recruit level.  Perhaps we are not giving the attention that is required in "training the trainers"?  I remember from my basic I had a drill God marching us around, so we were in good hands - but how can you ensure that this is the case all the time?  Food for thought as follows; the Royal Marines take their soldiers through the Commando Course in a Troop (Platoon) that consists of 6 JNCO's (our Sergeant), a SNCO (our Warrant) and an Officer http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/2668.html :

You will be divided into sections of about 10 men, each headed by a Corporal who will have been selected for his experience and teaching ability. Each troop will also have a Drill Instructor and Physical Training Instructor who will get to know your strengths and weaknesses. Supervising the Corporals is the Troop Sergeant, who is responsible for the administration of the troop and the training programme. The Troop is commanded by the Troop Commander, usually a Royal Marines Captain. He is responsible for the planning, conduct and supervision of training as well as standards, discipline and welfare.

The Drill Leader is a "Specialist Qualification" (we have these as well) http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/5037.html:

Drill Leader (DL)
The instructors who play a key role in the transition from raw recruit to fully trained Royal Marine are Drill Leaders. The tasks of Drill Leaders are the teaching and supervising of all recruits, NCOs and Officers under training in drill, personal husbandry and Corps history. With this role comes a wide-ranging responsibility for ceremonial drill, whether it is a unit inspection or a high profile event, such as a Freedom of a City ceremony, Street Lining or Remembrance Parades.

I'd reckon that the CF would benefit immensely by bringing back the PTI as well:

Physical Training Instructors (PTI)
The primary aim of the Royal Marines Physical Training specialisation is to prepare men for the physical demands of Commando Service. The secondary aim is to develop physical fitness through sport and adventurous training. Individuals are trained in all aspects of Fitness, PT Theory, Adventure Training, Anatomy and Physiology and Coaching Sport.

I think, for the CF, these would make excellent specializations that would earn extra "Spec pay" for those who take on these additional unit responsibilities and upkeep their own SME status - it could be configured like the old "QL4" sub-streams that we used in the Infantry.   As well as being assigned to training and operational units, these soldiers should be attached to static headquarters (yes, I'm looking at you, NDHQ) as well.

This would also entail a little change to the way we organize our training, but perhaps it will be a change for the good?

My zwei pfennig

Infanteer