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Domestic Terrorism/Public Attacks on CAF Personnel

Just heard on the radio that the body of Cpl Cirillo's body will travel down the Highway of Heroes today, departing Ottawa at approx 1100 hrs and arriving in Hamilton later this afternoon.

https://www.facebook.com/580CFRA
 
UPDATE:

Cpl Cirillo's body will move by hearse down the Veteran's Memorial Highway (Hwy 416) to Hwy 401 and follow the Highway of Heroes to his home in Hamilton.  The expected departure from Ottawa is now 1300 hrs.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/cpl-nathan-cirillo-s-final-journey-home-will-be-along-highway-of-heroes-1.2069186


The procession will go around Toronto on Hwy 407.  (1135 hrs radio broadcast on CFRA 580 AM)
 
Kilo_302 said:
This thread is labelled "domestic terrorism." IS this domestic terrorism? This guy had a lot of problems it appears.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/previous-assessment-described-ottawa-shooter-as-deeply-troubled-but-not-mentally-ill/article21277933/


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/michael-zehaf-bibeau-ottawa-gunman-asked-b-c-judge-to-send-him-to-jail-1.2810683


I'm sure we are all aware of the implications of calling something "terrorism" versus a murder.

Two things

1) Who are you?  Your profile is blank, and your posts make me suspicious of you motive and intent.
2) What is your point ? Your article says he had drug issues but no mental health problems/disorders.  As well, while he made stupid life choice, he was aware they were stupid and tried to fix that, while on the surface his method seems odd, from personal experience it's really not.  Plenty of folks of limited means, living on the street, and who have already been arrested previously, will commit petty crimes, so they can get in the system and either get treatment, or 3 hots and a cot. None of that suggests he was incapable of formulating a plan and implementing it.  In fact it suggests the opposite is true.
 
Kilo_302 said:
This thread is labelled "domestic terrorism." IS this domestic terrorism? This guy had a lot of problems it appears.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/previous-assessment-described-ottawa-shooter-as-deeply-troubled-but-not-mentally-ill/article21277933/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/michael-zehaf-bibeau-ottawa-gunman-asked-b-c-judge-to-send-him-to-jail-1.2810683

I'm sure we are all aware of the implications of calling something "terrorism" versus a murder.
There was a bit of discussion starting around here in the thread. 

At one level, it's two issues:
1)  How do you deal with people who are in a state where the only place they feel they have to turn to is jihadi orientation/cults/end of world conspiracies?
2)  How do we deal with the jihad snakeoil salesmen that, as someone smarter than me said on Twitter, like pedophiles, prey on/appeal to the vulnerable mentioned above?

At another level, does intent make a difference?  Even if Bloggins shooting a soldier and shooting up Parliament didn't intend to terrorize or apply violence for political ends because of mental defect, can we ignore how the act is perceived?
 
Retired AF Guy said:
CBC Radio is reporting that the firearm used in the shooting was a Winchester 30-30 lever action rifle. The shooter was prohibited from owning any firearms. So it will be interesting to see where he obtained the rifle.

The picture they showed of him "posing" from the waist up holding a rifle with his scarf on;  I called that rifle a Win 30-30.  Wonder when that picture was taken. 
 
George Wallace said:
UPDATE:

Cpl Cirillo's body will move by hearse down the Veteran's Memorial Highway (Hwy 416) to Hwy 401 and follow the Highway of Heroes to his home in Hamilton.  The expected departure from Ottawa is now 1300 hrs.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/cpl-nathan-cirillo-s-final-journey-home-will-be-along-highway-of-heroes-1.2069186

Do you know if it will get off at Keele like it usually does or just continue past Toronto to Hamilton?
 
2ndChoiceName said:
Do you know if it will get off at Keele like it usually does or just continue past Toronto to Hamilton?

Local radio announcer said that the procession will go around Toronto on Hwy 407.  (1135 hrs radio broadcast on CFRA 580 AM)
 
Generally ISIS and AQ get the suicide person to pose for PR pictures. He likely had that picture taken prior to departing and e-mailed it to his contact. It's all good for ISIS, they lose a sh*trat and gain with PR stuff to be used locally and internationally. Likely a local id's people like this to ISIS or directs them to them and helps prep them. The local is kept "clean" and ISIS contact takes over to encourage an attack and offers advice. At worst they lose a few hours of internet time, but with a chance of a big payoff for them with minimal outlay.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Two things

1) Who are you?  Your profile is blank, and your posts make me suspicious of you motive and intent.
2) What is your point ? Your article says he had drug issues but no mental health problems/disorders.  As well, while he made stupid life choice, he was aware they were stupid and tried to fix that, while on the surface his method seems odd, from personal experience it's really not.  Plenty of folks of limited means, living on the street, and who have already been arrested previously, will commit petty crimes, so they can get in the system and either get treatment, or 3 hots and a cot. None of that suggests he was incapable of formulating a plan and implementing it.  In fact it suggests the opposite is true.


1) I post on a lot of different threads on this site, if you haven't searched them then you're free to make whatever assumptions you want. My intent is take part in a discussion.
2) The article said the Forensic Psychiatric Services Commission found he was troubled, but not mentally ill. That's one organization, who let's face it, is probably overworked and understaffed. It's clear he had SOME issues, whether or not they could officially qualify him as being "mentally ill" is not something I can comment on. However, as we find out more, we're getting a picture of a troubled individual with a criminal past and drug problems, and not what I would define as a your traditional politically motivated terrorist. So my point is that referring to this incident as "domestic terrorism" is premature. In the event that he was influenced by ISIS, the question remains, did he have direct contact with them? Did they help him plan this (if there was a plan at all)?  Calling this domestic terrorism sets in motion a whole set of responses which may not be appropriate. Already Mr. Harper has referenced this incident as evidence that we need to expand the powers of CSIS, and need to continue our efforts in Iraq. It's far too early to say whether either of these comments are in any way relevant to this incident. The government is already cynically using this incident to further their own agenda (as governments do), and this thread referring to the attack as domestic terrorism follows that narrative.
 
General Disorder said:
That photo was snapped by a tourist at the time of the shooting.
More on that (and the discounting of initial reports of it being from ISIS/ISIL) here.
 
a good article on 2 Sergent of Arms.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/10/23/jonathan-kay-two-sergeants-at-arms-two-kinds-of-heroism/
 
For anyone planning on going, OPP has confirmed that the route will go along the Highway of Heroes, then divert on the 404 to the 407 and continue to Hamilton.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/cpl-nathan-cirillo-s-final-journey-home-will-be-along-highway-of-heroes-1.2069186
 
Kilo_302 said:
1) I post on a lot of different threads on this site, if you haven't searched them then you're free to make whatever assumptions you want. My intent is take part in a discussion.
2) The article said the Forensic Psychiatric Services Commission found he was troubled, but not mentally ill. That's one organization, who let's face it, is probably overworked and understaffed. It's clear he had SOME issues, whether or not they could officially qualify him as being "mentally ill" is not something I can comment on. However, as we find out more, we're getting a picture of a troubled individual with a criminal past and drug problems, and not what I would define as a your traditional politically motivated terrorist. So my point is that referring to this incident as "domestic terrorism" is premature. In the event that he was influenced by ISIS, the question remains, did he have direct contact with them? Did they help him plan this (if there was a plan at all)?  Calling this domestic terrorism sets in motion a whole set of responses which may not be appropriate. Already Mr. Harper has referenced this incident as evidence that we need to expand the powers of CSIS, and need to continue our efforts in Iraq. It's far too early to say whether either of these comments are in any way relevant to this incident. The government is already cynically using this incident to further their own agenda (as governments do), and this thread referring to the attack as domestic terrorism follows that narrative.

I agree that calling this an act of terrorism might be premature.  I actually get what you are saying.

However I would like to point out that the Government already had plans to expand CSIS' powers before this incident and were already indicating a ramp up of efforts in Iraq before any of this happened.  Homegrown radicalised individuals are a threat though.  Whether they are sick or influenced or whatever they are still a threat.
 
Sheep Dog AT said:
I believe you need a subscription.
Worked for me without logging in - in case the link doesn't work for you, here's the piece on where the photo came from.
 
Crantor said:
I agree that calling this an act of terrorism might be premature.  I actually get what you are saying.

However I would like to point out that the Government already had plans to expand CSIS' powers before this incident and were already indicating a ramp up of efforts in Iraq before any of this happened.  Homegrown radicalised individuals are a threat though.  Whether they are sick or influenced or whatever they are still a threat.

Yes the government already had plans on both the CSIS and Iraq fronts, I was just pointing out that Harper has already linked this incident with both directly. So in a sense he is using the death of a soldier to drum up support for his policies, however unrelated they seem (at this point) to the attack.

 
I'm not sure I would go that far yet.  We do know that one of these two guys tried to get to Syria and was stopped from travelling and was being monitered but nothing really could be done.  The next one is a bit harder to tell because info is conflicting as of yet.

I don't think he's using the death of a soldier as much as he's using the acts of a few extreme individuals that we've been warned about for some time now and that litteraly attacked our seat of government.
 
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