CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split

[OldSolduer]

One issue she touched on in her article, lack of quota for Army Reserve units, is not a recruiting system issue.

Rather, quotas are now set by looking (nationally) at the strength of units.  So the many units that try to keep up appearances and fail to clean the books of those releasing in fact torpedo themselves; holding those who do not parade and participate means the unit will not get to recruit to fill the positions.

Having spent half a decade tracking Army Reserve numbers I regularly saw how many units held dozens of folks who did not parade for months on end - yet they never took the actions required to declare them NES.  Lazy unit personnel admin is a huge problem in many Army Reserve units, but it is rarely rectified by their chain of command.

Not in 38 Bde, at least in my units.

The Bde Comd has set strict criteria on those who enrol but for whatever reasons fail to complete DP1 within a reasonable time.

Those that don't measure up are released.

 

[KerryBlue]

A great article by a good Canadian journalist. It's a sad state of affairs it seems. I e-mailed her to tell her about the lengthy process that some have to go through for various unnecessary reasons.

Just got my citizenship last week and I thought it is best to let the forum members know I have started the CF application. Gotta study a bit, do some mental and physical tests and tasks, work hard and submit my app.

Please wish me luck.

Thanks

Tell us all again the long  process you have been going through....for all of a month or so...dingbat

 

[McG]

...dingbat

Let's keep the tone civil.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If we're really serious about fixing our recruiting issues maybe we should be listening to the applicants and new recruits about the problems they run/ran into trying to join, at their level,  instead of some PAFO's canned response.

Identifying  that applications are getting lost & forgotten about or people are waiting months and months for a phone call only to tell them they are missing a signature seems more effective than hearing about how every application is sure darn important and hey let me tell you about national woman's month and the new red sweaters we want to buy our rangers because our sovereignty in the North is important.

Can't see many officers and NCOs sticking their hands up and admitting to being a part of the problem.

 

[KerryBlue]

I
Identifying  that applications are getting lost & forgotten about or people are waiting months and months for a phone call only to tell them they are missing a signature seems more effective than hearing about how every application is sure darn important

My experience with this started after my CFAT. I was told by CFRC Ottawa that they're a bit behind, come back in two weeks to book a interview/medical. Came back two weeks later(Nov 6) was told "whoops we forgot to start you reliability screening, can you come back in a month?" I came back a month later, and was told "oh well we finished but theirs a new application process and your file which was supposed to be finished because it was under the old system kinda got lost, so now you have to wait it out." And basically it has been a "we'll call you when were ready for you to be further processed, it could be anywhere from a few months to a few years."

I transferred my file to Toronto at the beginning of April and was told by the recruiter that my file was marked in Ottawa to be called for further processing since February, and the entire time I was told by them "we don't know when you will get a call". So now I have been waiting exactly 6 months since my CFAT, where I was told "come back in two weeks" to book a medical and interview. All in right now my file is a year old and will probably be closer to a year and a half by the time I'm hopefully merit listed.

 

[MilEME09]

If we're really serious about fixing our recruiting issues maybe we should be listening to the applicants and new recruits about the problems they run/ran into trying to join, at their level,  instead of some PAFO's canned response.

Identifying  that applications are getting lost & forgotten about or people are waiting months and months for a phone call only to tell them they are missing a signature seems more effective than hearing about how every application is sure darn important and hey let me tell you about national woman's month and the new red sweaters we want to buy our rangers because our sovereignty in the North is important.

Can't see many officers and NCOs sticking their hands up and admitting to being a part of the problem.

This could go a long way to solving issues, one idea that came up recently with my unit when we had a open discussion about recruiting is getting our unit in contact with people applying for trades in our unit so that we can internally poke CFRC when needed and keep the applicant interested.

 

[DAA]

Can't see many officers and NCOs sticking their hands up and admitting to being a part of the problem.

Well maybe not that far up but probably no higher than shoulder level, so they can at least point at someone else.    :rofl:

 

[PanaEng]

Not in 38 Bde, at least in my units.

The Bde Comd has set strict criteria on those who enrol but for whatever reasons fail to complete DP1 within a reasonable time.

Those that don't measure up are released.

We actually had more trained ppl who, after a while, got busy with a new job, moved away, family, etc. and never showed up again. In the last couple of years we cleaned up and are getting the spots filled quite nicely.

Chimo!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Kerry, I noticed one of the trades you're interested in is infantry.  Bit of a tangent but I know a guy who's been up in Meaford for a couple of months in PAT platoon waiting to do his infantry course.  He was just told that he wasn't placed on the next infantry serial being run 9along with 20+ others) and instead will be doing ceremonial guard this summer and should be placed on the next infantry course being in January 2015.

Lots of waiting.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This could go a long way to solving issues, one idea that came up recently with my unit when we had a open discussion about recruiting is getting our unit in contact with people applying for trades in our unit so that we can internally poke CFRC when needed and keep the applicant interested.

I would start charging CF members involved in recruiting that loose applications and paperwork for starters.  Hit them with on their PDRs and PERs too.

For recruiters streamline the process. If they have to chase around an applicant for a signature or they change their contact info without letting anyone know then cut them loose and close their file.

 

[MilEME09]

I would start charging CF members involved in recruiting that loose applications and paperwork for starters.  Hit them with on their PDRs and PERs too.

For recruiters streamline the process. If they have to chase around an applicant for a signature or they change their contact info without letting anyone know then cut them loose and close their file.

To use an example from my experience getting in, it took seven months for them to process my apllication only to tell me my eye sight wasnt good enough for combat engineer, I quickly picked weapons tech over the phone with the recruit and he resubmitted my package. I was sworn in a month later, which i found fast but my file also changed hands between recruiters during that time as well and it was the new recruiter who called me and gave me my options.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I would start charging CF members involved in recruiting that loose applications and paperwork for starters.  Hit them with on their PDRs and PERs too.

For recruiters streamline the process. If they have to chase around an applicant for a signature or they change their contact info without letting anyone know then cut them loose and close their file.

There are a few nifty little tools we have to deal with folks who have unacceptable conduct and performance, and I've seen them work.  The problem is, the superiors who are in charge of the people who aren't carrying their weight are ones who have to initiate these things.  If they are too lazy to properly supervise their subordinates (if they were, they likely wouldn't have people who are working like 'tards IMO), are they going to get off their arse and follow thru with the DAODs?  So, round and round we go...

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5019-0-eng.asp

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5019-4-eng.asp

 

[TCM621]

The problem is the process doesn't benefit anyone, applicant or CF. The long wait means you get two types of people, the truly dedicated to join the CAF and the ones with no other prospects. We miss out completely on the vast majority of top candidates because they have other options that will give them a job in weeks not months (or sometimes more than a year).

Here are a couple of things that could help solve the problem.
1. Require candidates to apply with a criminal record check completed. This could serve as a place holder until a security screening is complete.
2. Don't book CFATs. Candidate drops off completed application and goes in to a room to complete a computer based test. Results get printed and attached to his application.
3. Next the candidate fills out a medical questionnaire which he takes to a med tech. The med tech checks vitals, asks amplifying questions and requestions any tests required.

You have just cut a month or two off the wait.

 

[George Wallace]

The problem is the process doesn't benefit anyone, applicant or CF. The long wait means you get two types of people, the truly dedicated to join the CAF and the ones with no other prospects. We miss out completely on the vast majority of top candidates because they have other options that will give them a job in weeks not months (or sometimes more than a year).

Here are a couple of things that could help solve the problem.
1. Require candidates to apply with a criminal record check completed. This could serve as a place holder until a security screening is complete.
2. Don't book CFATs. Candidate drops off completed application and goes in to a room to complete a computer based test. Results get printed and attached to his application.
3. Next the candidate fills out a medical questionnaire which he takes to a med tech. The med tech checks vitals, asks amplifying questions and requestions any tests required.

You have just cut a month or two off the wait.

1.  Criminal Record Checks take time.  What may be done for one prospect in a month, may take another several months or years.  You do not hear the prospects who breezed through the Criminal Record Checks in a matter of days complaining.
2.  CFAT has to be booked when the facilities, equipment, and a capable operator are available to administer it.
3.  Medicals are booked when medical personnel are available to administer interviews and testing.  Gone are the days when you can be accepted with "one eye, one lung and one kidney". 

Since 911, security is a greater concern than prior to.  Unless you want to start accepting habitual liars into the CAF, on just their word that they are upstanding citizens, cursory security checks will need to be done.  Those also take time. 

We, as a whole, agree that the process is long and should be sped up; but the factors involved in 'clearing' a prospect for admission into a job that now requires a Lvl II Clearance do take up time.  The world has changed a lot in the last century.  Even with modern technology, we conduct more testing and evaluation towards whom is acceptable into the CAF and it all takes a lot more time than in previous decades.  What is unacceptable is the incompetence or negligent performance of some of the personnel who unintentionally or intentionally throw extra roadblocks into the equation. 

 

[MilEME09]

As much as i hate to suggest it because it will create more bureaucracy and overhead, perhaps we need some type of oversight of recruiting, that could do random checks on CFRC's and ask the needed questions of why a application is taking so long

 

[DAA]

I don't think the CF got into the recruiting business just yesterday, which makes me ask just how did they get to where they are now.

You surely just can't say that these problems suddenly popped up over night, now can you?

 

[MilEME09]

I don't think the CF got into the recruiting business just yesterday, which makes me ask just how did they get to where they are now.

You surely just can't say that these problems suddenly popped up over night, now can you?

I would suspect its actually a symptom of a greater issue within the bureaucracy within the CF as a whole, I over heard this past summer that there is a back log of 5-10 years for security clearances, no idea if its true but if it is that is a big problem

 

[Rifleman62]

My Niece's son started in Sept and had his Med last week. He wants to join the RWpgRif, but will probably end up in a kilt, if he ever gets in.

The CO of CF Recruiting Gp years ago invited all the CBG G1's to the two, in his tenure, CO's Conferences in Borden. Good interaction. Several of the CFRC CO's I knew personally as they had been RSSO's with our Res Units so they were well aware of the problems. There was also CL C within the CFRC. The Reserves were well represented.

Our Bde did Total Force recruiting in our outreach, Reg F and P Res. Lots of coordinating with the three CFRC's. We had a Reg F Capt as G1 Recruiting and Cl B Recruiting staff in all the major locations.

We just kept our head above water. A constant battle. Lots of internal reporting as to where candidates were in the process. In spite of all our efforts, including CF Recruiting Gp, processing was slow.  I would honestly state everyone did their best.

At the time there was only one MD in Borden to review the files. Eventually they got a part timer to assist. Apparently at the time there was a Doctor shortage in the area.

It is not a normal job a candidate is applying for. We hoped for Provisional Enrollment prior to security clearance. Can't remember what happen to that chestnut.

 

[TCM621]

1.  Criminal Record Checks take time.  What may be done for one prospect in a month, may take another several months or years.  You do not hear the prospects who breezed through the Criminal Record Checks in a matter of days complaining.
2.  CFAT has to be booked when the facilities, equipment, and a capable operator are available to administer it.
3.  Medicals are booked when medical personnel are available to administer interviews and testing.  Gone are the days when you can be accepted with "one eye, one lung and one kidney". 

Since 911, security is a greater concern than prior to.  Unless you want to start accepting habitual liars into the CAF, on just their word that they are upstanding citizens, cursory security checks will need to be done.  Those also take time. 

We, as a whole, agree that the process is long and should be sped up; but the factors involved in 'clearing' a prospect for admission into a job that now requires a Lvl II Clearance do take up time.  The world has changed a lot in the last century.  Even with modern technology, we conduct more testing and evaluation towards whom is acceptable into the CAF and it all takes a lot more time than in previous decades.  What is unacceptable is the incompetence or negligent performance of some of the personnel who unintentionally or intentionally throw extra roadblocks into the equation.

1.  have that be a requirement for applying. It costs 25 dollars and a lot of companies require it, the CF should be no different.

2. There doesn't need to be any facilities or operators. Just a computer. I have done very comprehensive aptitude, IQ, Skill exams, etc. that required nothing more than a computer with flash support (which probably discounts DWAN).

3. Post a ql5 med tech at the recruiting center. they can administer the tests and send them up to be reviewed by a PA or doctor.

all of this could be done in a day (applying with completed check) and at least help cut down on the applicants that are not suitable, saving time on their  files.

 

[Tibbson]

Here's my 2 cents for what its worth.

Its my understanding, when it comes to reserve recruiting, that there is another side of the coin that some may not factor in.  A few years ago my brother was looking after recruiting for his reserve regt and it got to the point where he had plenty of recruits but he couldn't process any.  The reason being that there was alreadyquite a number of prior members awaiting release and until those files were cleared off he had no positions to hire new recruits into.  Those release files were sitting in a pile somehere higher in the system doing nothing other then creating a recruiting bottleneck and ticking off soon to be ex members waiting for their final payments and fkrmal release.  Perhaps both processes need to be examined and streamlined.