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CF position on poor academic history.

Kat Stevens said:
Does his buddy know the engine choices?  Tire and wheel options?  Trim packages available, colours?  Fuel economy?  Trunk size?  Towing capability?  Transmission and drive train specs?  Financing options?  Warranty details?

I'd say you're missing the point entirely but I know better. You're just ignoring it. I'm not even going to bother getting into this argument in this thread. My point is clear and concise, and it's valid.

You know that my point is not to say you can complete a purchase of a vehicle without eventually going to the dealers, or that the dealers aren't going to have the most up-to-date info available for you, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Journeyman said:
Then those people should be READING the many threads on various trades in the Army, Navy or Air Force sections of the site.

If they're posting questions in the recruiting threads, they've already decided they want a car rather than a donkey or a camel. Reading the questions, most are looking for answers on either car loan applications (talk to a recruiter banker to see if you qualify), or why they should bother getting a driver's licence, since they totally rock at playing Grand Theft Auto (sarcasm/belittling).

Many recruiting questions posted are legitimate and get answered, or the poster is pointed where to look.

The irritating questions, however, fall into two categories:

1) generic questions that have been asked/answered dozens of times, but the poster is too lazy to search and thinks the site members owe them an answer; eg - "can I bring my cat, 'muffy,' with me to BMQ?"

2) specific questions that only a currently-serving recruiter could answer, and then, likely only once the process (eg - pre-requisites met, CFAT, medical) has begun; eg - "I live on anti-depressants but I'd make a great JTF2 sniper pilot, can I get a Prior-Learning waiver for my time in therapy?"

If you're going to post either types of question, you may not get the loving reception you believe you've earned.

And if you believe that Kincanuck's response was belittling, then you're not likely going to be satisfied with any response here -- you're joining the military, not a commune; toughen up a bit.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, it's just a thought I've had for a while and never voiced, and chose to voice it here. Just something I think everyone should at least skim by their brains before the generic "go talk to a recruiter response." Not saying it's not an appropriate response here, not saying it's never appropriate or it's always appropriate.

As for kincanucks response being belittling or not, I said I'm not getting involved in that, I couldn't care less about it. It's a micro issue, to a macro problem that I don't think is too much of a problem on this site anyway. Personally I'm trying (and failing) to cut down on the f-bombs in my day to day life so I can't even try to say with a straight face that "bs" bothers me ;)
 
Kat Stevens said:
Derail, redux.

Alrighty, yes, your buddy can say, "My uncle had one.  Cool car, goes like hell, can pull the Titanic, and does the 1/4 miles in the low 6's, gets 100 KM to the Tsp of gas."  It's not accurate, the guy who has the info is the dealer, AKA "expert".  See how that ties in nicely to my post?  Buddies give opinions, experts give facts.

They're car salesman. They're "experts" at selling, not at cars. I'll bet the Toyota dealerships tell all their potential buyers all about the recalls they've been having.

"Buddies," (who aren't all car-stupid just because they aren't mechanics, though some of them could be ;)), will tell you about how the paint rusted out after a year, but the dealer wouldn't uphold their end of the warranty because they said it was "rock chips," or how the warranty states they need to get their oil changes done at the dealership, which costs $200 dollars, and the dealer is 400km away.

Jeez, they must lick their chops when you walk into a dealership.
 
See, now you went and got personal.  have a nice day.


Voluntarily removing my posts on this thread, as they add nothing, clearly.
 
People ask stupid questions, regardless of medium. For every question on Army.CA, there has been an individual with the training and expertise to immediately know the answer and offhandedly tell the asker to do a search (somewhere).

This site allows anonymity to askers and answerers. It lets stupid questions fly in the face of social convention. It also lets answers be bloody rude.
 
ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs said:
This site allows anonymity to askers and answerers. It lets stupid questions fly in the face of social convention. It also lets answers be bloody rude.

It also allows for crusaders with upside down names..........
 
There are some days when one can't resist imposing oneself into an ongoing 'pointless' argument.  And I've had my nose broken twice as proof that I'm not immune to that compulsion (but that was when I was much, much younger . . . oh, well, guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks).  At least the only thing that can be bruised on the internet is ego.

It's been a while since a thread (or at least a thread which I followed) erupted into one of these discussions about the level of rudeness used in responding to questions from neophytes.  Usually it takes a few cantankerous posts before someone steps in and says be nicer to the poor young fellow.  Perhaps the unusual and unexpected correct use (more or less) of grammar, punctuation and syntax by the opening poster endeared him to his defenders after one questionable (in their opinion) response.  However, as I was surprised by this rush, I went back and more closely studied the post in question to see if I had been mistaken in my opinion that (while it had been abrupt) there was little wrong in its tone.

kincanucks said:
TruthSeeker said:
Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.

I'm a second year Computer Science student at the University of Waterloo. The main reason I began this career path was intense pressure from my parents, and over the past two years I have tried and failed to make it work, but I just don't see the sense any more. I was in the Cadet program for several years, and I'll admit that basically everything I know about the military is from those experiences. I've always felt like the military would be the best fit for my abilities, talents and strengths, and my original plan was to do my degree at RMC (I had the marks for it in high school) until I was persuaded otherwise by my family.

I know that the Canadian Forces is very selective about whom they chose to employ, and that generally speaking, people who have failed elsewhere and try to join are weeded out or precluded entirely. But I wanted to know what the position of a CF recruiter would be on my situation. My university record isn't good, however I am a model citizen otherwise. I have no legal issues whatsoever, a perfect credit rating, no health issues to speak of. I believe I have what it takes to succeed in a career with the Forces, and more importantly I feel very strongly that I need the various personal advantages one gains with military training.

Will the military reject my application due to my academic failures? I'll openly admit that I don't know much about the military, but what I do know makes me worry that I'll be excluded purely on the basis of my education history.

I appreciate any and all input. Thank you in advance for your comments.

Sincerely,

Dan

:salute:

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.  You are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere.

Nope, original opinion stands.  Actually, on second (and third . . . and fourth) reading, but probably being influenced by the discussion, kincanucks' response actually gets politer (but to be fair, never actually gets polite).

All this talk about car salesmen reminds me about a post I once made (quite some time ago) in which I made a very tangential comparison of recruiters with car salesmen (not even used car salesmen) and was quickly and vociferously taken to task by someone then posted to a recruiting center in which it was made very clear that no such comparison could or should be made.

But if the discussion is to parse what TruthSeeker said:

Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.
He already decided to buy the car and possibly knows the make and model he wants.  I may be mistaken in my understanding of his post but it is not clear of his intent - officer or NCM occupation.

. . . my original plan was to do my degree at RMC (I had the marks for it in high school) until I was persuaded otherwise by my family.

That may be significant issue in the advice given to him, particularly if his intent is to apply for ROTP.  His poor university record could be an impediment to that.

. . . I'll openly admit that I don't know much about the military, but what I do know makes me worry that I'll be excluded purely on the basis of my education history.

And this is what I feel is the justification for judging kincanucks' response as more or less acceptable.  TruthSeeker did not know what he was talking about and since he did not provide any additional details about his plans for a military career, and as we have no idea what he means by "his poor academic record", a succinct reply putting him in his lanes is entirely appropriate.

Of course TruthSeeker did not spend a lot of time on this means seeking truth.  His one and only post was timed at "January 27, 2011, 17:55:22" (all times in my time zone - Mountain Time).  Some of his other stats are:
Date Registered:  January 25, 2011, 16:54:59 
Last Active:  January 28, 2011, 23:46:45

Total Time Spent Online: 7 minutes.
Total Posts: 1 posts

It is possible that he was able to do a very comprehensive search about this subject in those seven minutes or while not logged in.  It is likely that academic record as it pertains to enrolment has been discussed before, it's just that I'm too lazy to do a search.  And he was actively logged in to view the first few responses to his opening post, but not the ensuing bunfight.  My God!  Kincanucks, did you scare him away, you heartless curmudgeon?  But if he is lurking, he should know that none of the ensuing silliness is ascribed to him and he is welcome to post further if he has questions.
 
Blackadder1916 said:
There are some days when one can't resist imposing oneself into an ongoing 'pointless' argument.
  :rofl:    :nod:

However, having broken it down as Blackadder1916 has,
TruthSeeker said:
Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.

I appreciate any and all input. Thank you in advance for your comments.
I'd say TruthSeeker now has a better idea of what he's in for.  ;)

And despite the follow-on gnashing of teeth, at least he's (pre-emptively) appreciative of Kincanuck's input, and all the subsequent comments.  ;D



With bonus points for his "unusual and unexpectedly correct use (more or less) of grammar, punctuation and syntax."  :)
 
Firsly, thanks everyone for your input.

I was primarily asking if a poor academic record would invalidate my application in any way. I understand that the easiest thing to do is simply to apply and see what happens, and this is precisely what I intend to do. I just thought that there might be a few ex-recruiters around, who could offer a more legitimate perspective on what criteria an applicant to the armed forces is evaluated on. I realize I may not know anything about the armed forces, and that is exactly why I decided to post here.

I also thought that there may be others in my position already, perhaps even people who've applied already as well. I thought that some input from that demographic would be helping during my application process. So if your input basically amounts to "just apply", then thank you, I plan on doing so.

Ideally, I would like to participate in tan ROTP at RMC. I realize that the selection process is very competitive, and for that reason I have decided that a more realistic route would be to join the regular or reserve forces, and then apply for a CF subsidized program, although I have no idea if this would actually improve my chances for admission to an ROTP. If nothing else, I'd enjoy a rewarding and fruitful career in an NCM position.

As for my academic record:

My highschool average was something like 85% (taken from the top 6 university level courses) and it's all downhill from there.

My first year, I withdrew from three of the four courses I was taking, and got an 84% (41.00) in the remaining course. My reason for withdrawing was that, due to a death in my family, I missed a few weeks at the beginning of the year, and due to the nature of the courses I was taking, I was unable to make up for the lost time. I appealed this section of my record and it was granted. This means that my first two terms of University (Fall (Sept. - Dec) 2008 and Winter (Jan - April) 2009) were marked as CLR. Which denotes that there were extenuating circumstances to consider. (I don't know if my official transcript will even show course attempts for these time periods.)

Fall 2009, I took the same courses and my performance here was average, however I could see by now that I had misunderstood the degree I had signed up for. The Computer Science program is theoretical, rather than practical, like most CS degrees. And I realized then that I had made a mistake in allowing myself to be influenced by my parents. Moving on to Winter 2010, I failed a few courses, and decided then to withdraw from the University. However, being in the co-op program, I had already secured a co-op job (starting in May, and ending in August). This job only confirmed my idea that this industry was a bad fit for my abilities and strengths. I excelled in the job, but I could tell that a lifelong career in similar occupations would be unbearable. I delayed my withdrawal until the fall for the purposes of this employment.

Fall 2010 rolls around, and I withdraw from the term in order to pursue other career opportunities. I did no schooling at all during this time, and I was employed briefly again by the same employers for which I worked during the summer. I had not decided at this point to enter the military, because I realize that the military is not something you simply join because you don't fit anywhere else. I was thinking about it, but I wanted to exhaust my other options before I made a commitment to the forces, because I knew that once I did, there would be no going back.

That brings us to this term, where I've missed the bus with the military. I've really taken everything into consideration by this point, and I've decided that the military is the only place where I can fully employ my abilities and skills, and where I can receive the training I believe I need to become the person I want to be. I am waiting until March, on the recommendation of a recruiter, at which point I will apply.

So that's my story, if I missed something, or if something needs further clarification, I will do my best in the following discussion. Thanks again!

Dan

:salute:

 
To this day, I'm still not convinced that a 'practical' Computer Science degree exists.

;)


 
Nostix said:
To this day, I'm still not convinced that a 'practical' Computer Science degree exists.
;)
  ::)  Great; you make a joke and someone will inevitably swoop in to say you've hurt the poster's feelings......

:stirpot:
 
Journeyman said:
  ::)  Great; you make a joke and someone will inevitably swoop in to say you've hurt the poster's feelings......

:stirpot:

Nope, but between the each of you, the two of you make a good stew.  :pop:
 
Enough of this riffraff, everyone get down and give me 20.  :pushup:
 
Unless everybody has not had a chance to measure their *&&*^ against someone else, I assume this festival of hurt feelings is done........no.....?
 
GAP said:
....I assume this festival of hurt feelings is done........no.....?
I doubt it.
The original poster has expressed his contentment with the responses, but I assume there's scope for several more pages of "oh...oh YA?!"  >:D
 
I'm getting a Kodak Kool-Aid moment here, "Oh, Yah!"  :snowman:
 
the 48th regulator said:
What a pot full of Bovine Malarkey.....

dileas

tess

I believe that the word malarkey already mean cow excrement, so bovine malarkey might be a bit redundant, goes further to show the lack of academics  ^-^

sorry, don't kill me  ;D
 
I believe 48th's double entendre included the automatic phrase an individual states when they find themselves stepping in malarkey.  :D
 
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