CF Members and time alloted for PT

[aesop081]

Thanks. I am unfamiliar with alot of aspects of reserve service, hence why i asked.

 

[blacktriangle]

When I was in the reserves, we were the forgotten Sqn out in the sticks. The nearest CF Gym was about 45 minutes in either direction. Most of us managed to keep in shape just fine...I was fitter that at point than I am now, and I live less than a kilometre from the gym here. Back then, I just bought a gym membership and went for runs outside...it worked well enough. I never asked to be compensated for it, as fitness is a part of the job.

At the same time, it would be nice for reservists to able to be do formed PT for a full parade night each week. If money was to be spent, I think it would be better spent on adding another parade night for each unit to soley dedicate to PT. That way at least you could tell who was showing up and doing it.

Now as for 5 hrs/week in the RegF...yeah right.

I don't hold any vital position or have any real responsibility, and I don't think I have ever done PT for 5 hrs a week during work hours. It's sporadic at best...as such, I go to the gym on my own time at least 3x per week. If I was actually busy at work, and had a family to take care of on top of that, I could see it being hard to rack up anywhere close to an hour a day. I guess it really depends who your boss is, and what you do.

It's not like you need to be a fitness god to be in the CF. As long as a CoC gives a member some time to do PT, and the member takes it upon themselves to bridge the gap during off hours, I don't see any excuse to not meet minimum standards.

 

[chrisf]

I think that's an acceptable compromise as well, there are a lot of PRes units not close to a major base.

Not just the units. We've got a base with a reasonably equipped gym. But te've got members who live up to 100km from the unit.

As an extra kick to the junk, our local gym hours are basically an insult to the reserve members. Hours are 8-9 Monday to Friday, then 10-4 Saturday and Sunday.

Can't use it before members go to work/school in the morning during the week, can't use if the member happens to be working with the reserves on the weekend.

 

[chrisf]

At the same time, it would be nice for reservists to able to be do formed PT for a full parade night each week. If money was to be spent, I think it would be better spent on adding another parade night for each unit to soley dedicate to PT. That way at least you could tell who was showing up and doing it.

Sorry, but that's a terrible idea. I don't know about other units, but we've got enough trouble getting people to show up for regular parade nights as is now, let alone if we were expecting them to show up for extra PT!!

I've made a compromise with my troops (Actually, troop, as in the sub-division of a squadron) any time i can/can get away with it... I always try to integrate PT into any garrison training... any day we're doing in garrison work, I make it clear to my troops the day before (So they bring gym gear) that if we get our work done early, we can got to to the gym at 14:30, so bring PT gear (Also with the provision that they WILL go to to the gym till 1600, or there'll be work found for them to do elsewhere). No one ever makes the mistake of "forgetting" their PT gear and calling my bluff on the finding work for them to do more than once.

I've also done things like squeeze in snow shoe PT, a run, different stuff like that in the morning with the blessing of the chain of command and the somewhat democratic agreement of the troop... along the lines of "ok, show up at 0730, we'll do PT till 0830, and we'll cut loose by 1530". Realistically, most garrison days, we're gone by or around 15:30 anyway, so from the chain of command's point of view, they're only loosing a half hour of work, but they're also getting the troop out for PT for an hour... so it all works out...

Any fun group PT you can do also does wonders for morale.

 

[blacktriangle]

Sorry, but that's a terrible idea. I don't know about other units, but we've got enough trouble getting people to show up for regular parade nights as is now, let alone if we were expecting them to show up for extra PT!!

I've made a compromise with my troops (Actually, troop, as in the sub-division of a squadron) any time i can/can get away with it... I always try to integrate PT into any garrison training... any day we're doing in garrison work, I make it clear to my troops the day before (So they bring gym gear) that if we get our work done early, we can got to to the gym at 14:30, so bring PT gear (Also with the provision that they WILL go to to the gym till 1600, or there'll be work found for them to do elsewhere). No one ever makes the mistake of "forgetting" their PT gear and calling my bluff on the finding work for them to do more than once.

I've also done things like squeeze in snow shoe PT, a run, different stuff like that in the morning with the blessing of the chain of command and the somewhat democratic agreement of the troop... along the lines of "ok, show up at 0730, we'll do PT till 0830, and we'll cut loose by 1530". Realistically, most garrison days, we're gone by or around 15:30 anyway, so from the chain of command's point of view, they're only loosing a half hour of work, but they're also getting the troop out for PT for an hour... so it all works out...

Any fun group PT you can do also does wonders for morale.

I never said I was the king of great ideas, so thank you for your honesty.  ;D

With that said, I think it might depend on the unit. Where I was before, most people wanted work so I'm sure a majority of them would have showed up...but you are right, it can be hard to drag some guys even to routine training. That's the nature of the Cl A Res Svc beast though, as you well know.

Agreed though...you can get a lot more out of "fun PT" in some cases. I find myself sweating pretty hard during a good game of floor hockey or soccer.

 

[chrisf]

Agreed though...you can get a lot more out of "fun PT" in some cases. I find myself sweating pretty hard during a good game of floor hockey or soccer.

Managed to snag enough free passes to a local gym at one point, between a friend who worked there, and half the troop having memberships there, to take the troop out for spin class one day.

I intend to organize a snow shoe biathalon at some point this up coming training year...

It all takes a bit of extra effort, but PT can be squeezed in to a reserve schedule.

What would be fantastic is if say, COs were budgeted one full class A day per soldier per month per training year exclusively for PT... with the caveat that you have submit justification, so it doesn't just get wasted.

Be that PT a unit hockey tournament, a day of map and compass, an afternoon of cross-fit, a day of digging trenches and filling sandbags, whatever.

 

[prima6]

My CO gives 1 hour per day plus travel time (walk over, change, shower after) for PT at the gym.  There are certain activities that this is not permitted to interfere with (flights, trainers), but generally the guys get more that enough time to go to the gym.  We also have an incentive program where you can earn up to 4 short days depending on your performance on the EXPRES (2 for an exemption, 2 more for also beating the CO).

 

[aesop081]

(2 for an exemption, 2 more for also beating the CO).

I like the sound of that.

 

[blacktriangle]

Prima,

Sounds neat. Does your unit have that policy written into official orders that a person could get a hold of? I might use it as an example and suggest a similar idea here.

 

[PuckChaser]

We also have an incentive program where you can earn up to 4 short days depending on your performance on the EXPRES (2 for an exemption, 2 more for also beating the CO).

While we don't have short for Expres (Army unit has to do BFT), we usually have semi-annual 5km runs with the CO, and anyone finishing ahead of him gets a short day. Great concept, people who I don't consider in that great of shape cardio-wise put a lot of extra effort in for that short day. CO wasn't that slow either, finished 5km in just under 25 minutes.

 

[ballz]

That's a great incentive program. Kudos to any CO that does something like what's being mentioned here.

 

[gcclarke]

Prima,

Sounds neat. Does your unit have that policy written into official orders that a person could get a hold of? I might use it as an example and suggest a similar idea here.

Here is an example outlined in HMCS Vancouver's Captain's Standing Orders:

6. Short Leave.  Short leave is a measure I have available to reward personnel who deserve recognition for hard work, often outside of normal working hours.  I am the only authority for Short Leave.  The Divisional Chain of Command is to recommend occasions when Short Leave may be warranted for a member to me via a Personnel Request Form.  The exception to this is that one day of short shall be granted for members who achieve an “exempt” status on their CF EXPRES test, and it need only be annotated on the leave request form as such.

Not quite as generous as the example listed above, but hey, it still helps.

 

[Sigger]

Monetary costs aside, I would assume if an individual has gained employment with the Canadian Forces, regardless of component(or element), said individual would understand that a certain level of fitness would need to be achieved(and maintained).
It's not what the CF can do for you, it's what you can do for the CF. To say "If the CF is serious about something, the CF should pay for it" in regards to personal fitness, is completely ridiculous(I do understand the notions for allotting some sort of financial compensation for Res mbr, and in part, agree).

It boils down to this: If you are a soft body, hit the gym; It's your duty.

 

[Container]

Ibelieve the issue lies in the fact that the CF cannot get rid of the soft bodies without saying that it assisted them in maintaining their fitness (or developing it in the first place). Current society in Canada wont let you fire someone for being fat and useless unless you prove that you tried to help them un-fat.

 

[Sigger]

Sigh

 

[Container]

Id like to see the CF and emergency services exempt from this type of expectation.

But we all know "that guy" who fails everything and stays in the CF. I have the same feelings about "that guy" as I do the one who can always weasel out of moving.

 

[jwtg]

The CF expects above average fitness from it's members.  It's members should take initiative (and have opportunity) to invest their time in above average fitness.

This includes (where possible) incentives and opportunities to encourage CF members to partake in PT during working hours.  RegF members make it their day to day activity to be in the CF, so the CF should assist in facilitating their PT in their day to day activities.  The CF should also take a strong and uniform stance on people failing to meet fitness standards.

ResF know that they're taking on extra military commitment beyond their day to day activites, and thus will have to pursue fitness beyond their day to day activities- subsidized gym memberships for ResF members not near a base/unit with a gym is a good idea- discipline for failing to meet fitness standards being the price one would pay for not making use of their access to fitness equipment.

Hell, why not create a P90X-like-CF-issue-at-home-workout DVD, and give that to people not near a gym.

EDIT to add: I'm not advocating P90X- I know some people really don't like it.  My point is there are plenty of ways to improve your fitness using at-home methods with little to no equipment, simply good technique and some guidance (which could be provided in the form of a DVD or viral video made accessible to CF members...) by CF or PSP staff.

 

[Haggis]

The CF expects above average fitness from it's members.

Really, now?  Have you seen the CF EXPRES Minimum Physical Fitness Standard?  It ain't that hard!!!

This includes (where possible) incentives and opportunities to encourage CF members to partake in PT during working hours.  RegF members make it their day to day activity to be in the CF, so the CF should assist in facilitating their PT in their day to day activities.  The CF should also take a strong and uniform stance on people failing to meet fitness standards.

The incentive should be "keeipng my job".  Mechanisms for enforcement already exist in DAOD 5023-2 but are rarely used.

 

[jwtg]

Really, now?  Have you seen the CF EXPRES Minimum Physical Fitness Standard?  It ain't that hard!!!

I agree; however, 'hard' is relative.  I'm a 22 year old male.  I am at or near the highest EXPRES standards because of my age and gender- I train regularly in sports and fitness, and I have no trouble completing the EXPRES test.  I ran it with about 100 people a couple years ago, and about half the group failed because they were in average shape.  I think your expectations of the average human being may be a little high, because in this fast-food laden society, being it good shape is becoming a rarity and is certainly not 'average.'

The incentive should be "keeipng my job".  Mechanisms for enforcement already exist in DAOD 5023-2 but are rarely used.

Your 2nd sentence addresses why your first is irrelevant.  People don't often lose their jobs for being out of shape in the CF, and rarely experience more than soft discipline.  I said the CF should take a strong and uniform stance.  Real discipline.  If the CF is going to say this is a priority, then they have to make it a priority and make real consequences for failing to meet the standards.

 

[aesop081]

It's members should take initiative (and have opportunity) to invest their time in above average fitness.

Sure i will invest my time........

I'm into work at 430am for pre-flight breif.......i land at 1830. I leave the hangar at 1900...........If i go to the gym right after, i might get home by 2015.

Nevermind the fact that i'm too tired to go to the gym after a flight like that, maybe i owe my family some time too. So i make up for it by going on days where i'm not flying or on the weekends. Do i go every weekend ? F**k no. All work and no play.........not freakin likely.

In the end, i dont go 5 days a week, every single week. Its just not going to happen.

I dont know if i could possibly invest more time.......

  If the CF is going to say this is a priority, then they have to make it a priority and make real consequences for failing to meet the standards.

The DAOD is clear on what is to be done and what the consequences are. I have seen them applied.