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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

Blame Trump? leave that for the states. In Canada, I blame Hajdu



Health Minister Patty Hajdu Knew About Pandemic Risk in December 2019

In an interview with Evan Solomon, Hajdu admitted that she was briefed in “late December” 2019 about the threat of the CCP Virus pandemic
(Sept. 10, 2020)

“How would have the early pandemic alert system impacted the COVID-19 trajectory in Canada, had it been active?”

https://twitter.com/i/status/1304170768583004161

She spent months publicly opposing border shutdowns

closing the border could ’cause harm.’

‘stigma’ was the biggest threat.

the “risk was low.”
 
Donald H said:
It really does look like the Biden point is solid Brad, and it's being quite generous to say that Trump's only responsible for 130,000 of the nearly 200,000.
Although Trump will claim that the deaths would be in  the millions if not for him and his quick action on pretending to stop the flow of people from China.

How is Trump responsible when the vast majority of deaths are in states that locked-down hard, regardless of what Trump was doing? I have not been able to understand this point.
 
LittleBlackDevil said:
How is Trump responsible when the vast majority of deaths are in states that locked-down hard, regardless of what Trump was doing? I have not been able to understand this point.

On a side note it looks like the US passes 200,000 dead from the virus today.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Is that a significant number? Yes, it is in comparison to other countries that took necessary precautions seriously. So if you look at that link you will notice that there has become a correlation between states with high numbers and states in which Trump mocked precautions and encouraged people to not wear masks etc.

I would say that the Trump facade has been exposed in Woodward's book. Trump was admitting to the horrors of the virus compared to the flu, at the same time as he was telling the people that it was just the flue, a hoax, and a phony plot by the Dems.

As for New York and New Jersey, while Cuomo was promoting the right approach, Trump was interfering by talking to his supporters in those states. And the people listened to Trump enough that America's record shows the impact for the entire country.

Had it not been for Woodward's book I wouldn't be so definitive and outspoken with you on the question. But now I see the evidence to condemn Trump as a slamdunk.
 
It's Trump's fault that NY set a policy that people recovering from COVID would have to be accepted into LTCs?
 
Donald H said:
As for New York and New Jersey, while Cuomo was promoting the right approach, Trump was interfering by talking to his supporters in those states. And the people listened to Trump enough that America's record shows the impact for the entire country.
Maybe that should be under the conspiracy theory thread.
 
There's audio proof as well as the "it's just gonna go away" and he just straight out goes with a lie:

Trump denies downplaying virus, casts doubt on mask usage

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-denies-downplaying-virus-casts-doubt-mask-usage-73040169

Trump claims he "up-played" the coronavirus after previously saying he wanted to downplay it

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-town-hall-coronavirus-played-up-bob-woodword/
 
Ever since the “fine people” hoax, I don’t believe anything the msm says Trump stated without finding the entire video or audio with context to view for myself.  Same goes for anyone they quote in fact. 
 
QV said:
Ever since the %u201Cfine people%u201D hoax, I don%u2019t believe anything the msm says Trump stated without finding the entire video or audio with context to view for myself.  Same goes for anyone they quote in fact.

Here's one you can take to the bank QV.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-biden-us-mask-mandate_ca_5f61f88ec5b65fd7b8576863

Trump Blames Biden For Not Instituting U.S. Mask Mandate.
 
He should be setting an example but did not and politicised, mostly going against measures as well as claiming it a "Democrats' new hoax":

Cavalier White House approach to COVID catches up to Trump

Masks were rarely spotted in the West Wing. Crowds of people gathered shoulder to shoulder on the White House South Lawn. And Air Force One streaked across the sky from one massive campaign rally to another.

With ready access to testing and the best public health minds at his disposal, President Donald Trump should have been the American safest from COVID-19. Instead, he flouted his own government’s guidelines and helped create a false sense of invulnerability in the White House, an approach that has now failed him as it did a nation where more than 200,000 people have died.

...

"He let the country down by disregarding the CDC, ignoring federal guidelines and acting like he was Superman," said presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. "He did not just downplay the virus, he paraded around like a peacock, making fun of those who took it seriously."

From the pandemic’s early days, Trump, by his own admission, played down the severity of the virus. He repeatedly suggested it would “disappear” and for a while was pushing for the American economy to fully reopen by Easter, just a month after the pandemic fully engulfed the nation.

And he soon began resisting the advice of public health experts on his own coronavirus task force, including Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Deborah Birx. He publicly clashed with the heads of the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention over everything from the risks associated with opening schools to the timetable for a potential COVID-19 vaccine.

Those on the White House staff dared not break with the president, who wanted to embody a nation on the way back, not one fixated with health guidelines that would remind a nervous public about the virus rather than an economic resurgence.

Experts urged the widespread use of masks, including CDC Director Robert Redfield, who testified before Congress last month that face coverings could be a more effective safeguard than a vaccine. Trump has eschewed their use, telling aides that he didn’t like how he looked in them and that it sent a message to the public that he was worried about his health.

He has worn masks only sporadically and politicized their use, saying he didn’t need them because he was tested and most people he saw were kept six feet away. He mocked Democrat Joe Biden for consistently wearing a face covering, while many of the president’s supporters followed his example and skipped them, even at crowded events.

And their use, while technically required, wasn’t enforced in the White House either. Most senior aides rarely wore masks, even in tight quarters in the West Wing or on Air Force One. A belief took hold that because those who came in contact with president received a rapid COVID-19 test every day, they were safe in their bubble.

...

"He mocked the medical experts and their advice. He mocked it all right up until the presidential debate when he stood on that stage," said Michael Steele, former head of the Republican Party. "He had the best information possible and didn’t take it."

...

Even in the hours after the president’s diagnosis, senior White House staff, including chief of staff Mark Meadows and economic adviser Larry Kudlow, walked around the White House complex without wearing masks. The White House, even now, says the face coverings are a matter of “personal choice” for most staffers.

...


https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-donald-trump-public-health-health-1e12c6e356b950d4521517452b54de80
 
Trump's political position of not wearing masks can't be changed now. America's infection rate could skyrocket if predictions by the medical experts are correct about a fall spike.
We can contrast that to Canada's attitude that has proven to be as successful as nearly any country.

:cheers: again.
 
From the article:

Trump styles his large campaign gatherings as “peaceful protests” exempt from limits on crowd size.

Protests against what?  The sitting government?  ::)
 
Dimsum said:
From the article:

Protests against what?  The sitting government?  ::)

It doesn't matter. you can protest whether the mustard on a corned beef on rye goes on the top or bottom slice if you want. That's freedom, baby.
 
Target Up said:
It doesn't matter. you can protest whether the mustard on a corned beef on rye goes on the top or bottom slice if you want. That's freedom, baby.

The awesome thing is that in the U.S. today, if a Republican or Democrat said the top slice, it would become a hot-button partisan issue.
 
Infanteer said:
The awesome thing is that in the U.S. today, if a Republican or Democrat said the top slice, it would become a hot-button partisan issue.

Again; Freedom, baby...  8)
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
Don't confuse Party stupidity (Any party - I have no preference on such matters) with freedom.

So people aren't free to be idiots? Is this new? Was there a vote?  I'm soo out of the loop.
 
The White House politicising the pandemic again trying to rush possible vaccines past safety standards:

White House blocks new coronavirus vaccine guidelines that would delay approval

The White House has blocked new Food and Drug Administration guidelines on bringing potential vaccines for COVID-19 to market that would almost certainly have prevented their approval before the Nov. 3 election.

At issue was the FDA’s planned requirement that participants in the ongoing mass clinical trials for nearly a half-dozen vaccine candidates be followed for two months to ensure there are no side effects and that the vaccines provide lasting protection from the virus in order to receive emergency approval.

A senior administration official confirmed the move Monday evening, saying the White House believed there was “no clinical or medical reason” to add additional screening protocols.

...


https://globalnews.ca/news/7380418/coronavirus-vaccine-white-house-fda/

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-archive-efdb363953cc5e2d64028b60baabdc90
 
What was wrong with the prior existing standards?  Is it politicizing things to add standards to potentially delay vaccine deployment until after the election?
 
Brad Sallows said:
What was wrong with the prior existing standards?  Is it politicizing things to add standards to potentially delay vaccine deployment until after the election?

First, they are already moving way faster than they would have.  So they are not exactly following their own pre existing standards.

This section of the second article seems to explain the reasoning.

Former FDA acting commissioner Dr. Stephen Ostroff said the requirements seem reasonable given the agency is in largely “uncharted territory” in terms of considering emergency use of a vaccine. The agency has only previously cleared one vaccine through the method — a decades-old shot that was authorized to prevent anthrax poisoning in 2005.

“There really is no margin for error here,” Ostroff said. “Even when you’re talking about limited use of a vaccine there has to be some level of assurance that there isn’t a risk here that would far outweigh the benefit.”

Dr. Peter Marks, the head of FDA’s vaccine division, said Tuesday that the two-month follow-up requirement was chosen to be “something reasonably aggressive, but not too conservative — right in the middle.” He spoke at a symposium organized by Johns Hopkins University.
 
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