CDN Mukluks Vs U.S. Bunny Boots

[geo]

I would NEVER stick a plastic bag inside the sock.... you get wet feet & the minute you stop moving around.... the moisture will start to cool & freeze!!!
layers in this order: Foot, Sock(s), Duffel sock, Felt & nylon innersoles, Glad bag and lastly the Muckluck.

External moisture IS the concern when wearing a canvas or Nylon outer boots.

Wet feet will lead to trench foot & / or frostbite.... whichever will get you 1st.

 

[dangerboy]

To keep my shoepack liners dry of sweat, I have put my feet in plastic bags and then inserted them into my boots in very cold weather. The result was: sweaty feet, as usual, but bone-dry felt liners, which retained their insulating value all day long. I eventually quit noticing the strange feel of plastic bag socks under my wool socks.

If external moisture were a concern, then bagging the felt liners would be worth a try, I would think.

I have never had any problems with any foot annoyances of any sort related to moisture or sweat, though, so maybe it wouldn't work for everybody.

Out of curiosity how long were you wearing mukluks for? Was it a weekend EX or for am EX lasting say 2-3 weeks.  Your feet can survive a weekend but like GEO said if you leave them exposed to that much moisture for a long time you will be a casualty either from trench foot or frostbite.  Having seen both those it is not a pretty sight. 

 

[sm1lodon]

A normal working day, about 12 hours is how long I left them in.

Please re-read what I posted very carefully, and you will note that I specifically said that the moisture didn't get into the insulating liner, thus where would the miracle of frostbite occur? From the liners suddenly turning into fibrous liquid helium?

I am not debating the need to dry your feet out periodically, that I can see for having feet in the boots for over 12 hours or so. I dried mine out after I took my boots off after work. They weren't really all that wet, but doing the work I was doing, I didn't really work up much of a sweat in that weather, anyhow.

What I am emphasizing is that there would be no way for frostbite to occur, because the insulation value of the felt liner is not compromised because there is no moisture in it to compromise it. None coming from the inside of the boot, at any rate.

In fact, with a system with a wool sock, a bag, an insulating liner that was actually impervious to moisture absorption, and changing socks every so often, I think it could be more survivable than having your feet directly soaking your liners with sweat.

In my own case, I had all-day comfort instead of having to hop back and forth after a few hours due to sweaty, thus cold, liners.

 

[geo]

feet in plastic bags

The way you wrote your 1st post, you give the impression that you place your bare feet inside the plastic bag & then go with socks & boots... in a condition such as described, feet will sweat with very little effort - even on the coldest of days.  Moisture that can't be wicked away by your socks will give you cold and clammy feet & will lead to frostbite or trench foot.

a system with a wool sock, a bag, an insulating liner

However, from your last post, you are suddenly making sense.... but, the insulating liner should be kept dry from outside influence.... ice water & snow.... but, as you say, given your line of work, it might not matter in your case.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Anyone who places a non-permeable membrane inside their footwear in a cold environment is asking for a cold related injury.  You're issued gore-tex socks still, aren't you?  They are technological leaps and bounds above wonderbread bags.

 

[geo]

You are right Kat.... the goretex sox are leaps and bounds ahead.
Got mine BUT, not sure if Reserves have received an "at large" distribution...

 

[Nfld Sapper]

umm.. yeah we got them.

 

[geo]

heh... call-out bum ;D
Are the Class A guys getting em ?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

heh... call-out bum ;D
Are the Class A guys getting em ?

Class A Cowboys are getting them, heck the fresh meat off the street new recruits are getting them.

 

[geo]

Ahhhh... "check"

Guess that means that the system is prolly getting ready to remove em from general distribution

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Ahhhh... "check"

Guess that means that the system is prolly getting ready to remove em from general distribution

Not sure, at my unit they all get them when you pick up your kit (unless we don't have your size) before BMQ starts.

 

[Blackadder1916]

To add another dimension to this discussion of winter footwear, I came across this item while looking for something else.  Wonder if anyone has had any experience with this piece of kit?

EXTREME COLD WEATHER OVER-BOOT

British military issue DPM extreme cold weather over-boots. These incredible boots come complete with thick fleece inner bootie and the whole lot is worn over your footwear. Green rubber sole for grip in snow and ice. Goretex fabric is breathable and designed to protect from extreme cold and wet conditions. No expense spared for these issue boots. These boots would probably cost many times our price and you could not even buy the fleece inners today. Limited stocks.

My impression of the British army had been that overboots (with the exception of NBC type - which was used for inclement conditions during the Falklands) had never been a big thing when dealing with wet and cold.  I gathered from comments on another forum that the fleece liners have an open mesh sole plus zippers on the back to fit snugly and are worn over regular combat boots and the overboots are worn over both.

It would seem to be a similar idea to NEOS overboots, though the NEOS come in uninsulated and insulated types.  I have a pair that I occasionally use if I'm in the bush during the winter.  A lot lighter than a pair of "gumbies", pack easily, are waterproof and provide extra insulation/warmth.  They are a robust item, though I don't know how well they would stand up to being in some of the places I went wearing military kit.

 

[daftandbarmy]

To add another dimension to this discussion of winter footwear, I came across this item while looking for something else.  Wonder if anyone has had any experience with this piece of kit?

EXTREME COLD WEATHER OVER-BOOT
My impression of the British army had been that overboots (with the exception of NBC type - which was used for inclement conditions during the Falklands) had never been a big thing when dealing with wet and cold.  I gathered from comments on another forum that the fleece liners have an open mesh sole plus zippers on the back to fit snugly and are worn over regular combat boots and the overboots are worn over both.

It would seem to be a similar idea to NEOS overboots, though the NEOS come in uninsulated and insulated types.  I have a pair that I occasionally use if I'm in the bush during the winter.  A lot lighter than a pair of "gumbies", pack easily, are waterproof and provide extra insulation/warmth.  They are a robust item, though I don't know how well they would stand up to being in some of the places I went wearing military kit.

I used the 'grand daddy' of these boots in Norway with the British Army and Royal Marines in the 80s.

They were not meant to be used as the primary mode of footwear like the Canuk Mukluk. Being ski troops we wore leather ski march boots (yes, they sucked, but they encouraged you to keep moving fast at 20-30 below!). These overboots were supposed to be carried by each 'ski trooper' to be worn during static operations e.g., ambushes, sentry duty etc. In reality we hardly used them. We carried two per section for sentries sometimes, but eventually gave up on that because the things were too huge and bulky. You could carry an extra 2 days of food in the space these things sucked up in the bergan. In addition, if you put soggy boots in these, they freeze, and we did not heat our snow shelters and tent sheets (not tents, just a canvass cover for a snow pit) to conserve fuel and avoid frequent resupply, so they'd stay frozen for the rest of the time on ex.

Also, even in defensive positions our practise was to go over to the offensive as soon as possible, as well as to patrol offensively - alot. So we'd be in and out of skis at short notice all the time.

Back in the echelon we used to see guys in these all the time, which was fine by me. Whatever works...

 

[Matt_Fisher]

To add another dimension to this discussion of winter footwear, I came across this item while looking for something else.  Wonder if anyone has had any experience with this piece of kit?

EXTREME COLD WEATHER OVER-BOOT
My impression of the British army had been that overboots (with the exception of NBC type - which was used for inclement conditions during the Falklands) had never been a big thing when dealing with wet and cold.  I gathered from comments on another forum that the fleece liners have an open mesh sole plus zippers on the back to fit snugly and are worn over regular combat boots and the overboots are worn over both.

It would seem to be a similar idea to NEOS overboots, though the NEOS come in uninsulated and insulated types.  I have a pair that I occasionally use if I'm in the bush during the winter.  A lot lighter than a pair of "gumbies", pack easily, are waterproof and provide extra insulation/warmth.  They are a robust item, though I don't know how well they would stand up to being in some of the places I went wearing military kit.

FYI,

CPGear has NEOS Voyagers in stock now http://www.cpgear.com/StoreBox/footwear/1087.htm
The insulated Explorer models are on the way.

 

[armyvern]

Ahhhh... "check"

Guess that means that the system is prolly getting ready to remove em from general distribution

Yep. Everyone gets issued them regardless,

And, everyone is entitled to more pair of each once / year:

5 X black sock liners;
5 X green socks;
5 X grey socks;
5 X OD t-shirts;
5 X boxers;
2 X long underwear; and
2 X undershirts ...

Once per year.

 

[Gronk]

For what it's worth, the old school dog mushers here in the Yukon wear bunny boots on the trail. I don't know if it is because they are easier to get here or, if they are easier to get because the mushers wear them.

 

[NL_engineer]

Yep. Everyone gets issued them regardless,

And, everyone is entitled to more pair of each once / year:

5 X black sock liners;
5 X green socks;
5 X grey socks;
5 X OD t-shirts;
5 X boxers;
2 X long underwear; and
2 X undershirts ...

Once per year.

Is there a link for that somewhere on the DWAN, so when I go to clothing I don't get told "your not entitled"?

 

[armyvern]

Is there a link for that somewhere on the DWAN, so when I go to clothing I don't get told "your not entitled"?

D01-301 ...

tell them to check their scales when they tell you you're not.

 

[PuckChaser]

And, everyone is entitled to more pair of each once / year:

2 X long underwear; and
2 X undershirts ...

Once per year.

Oh God, I've been trying to make due with 2 pairs of original issue long underwear and undershirt for 6 years! Thanks Vern, I need to make a trip to Clothing.

 

[NL_engineer]

D01-301 ...

tell them to check their scales when they tell you you're not.

Thanks Vern