CANFORGEN on Pay and PIL

[Good2Golf]

Interesting.

Got this email today:

1. Breakdown of Population Versus Sample Size by Employee Category and Group: 
Category and Group  Population / (Number of Employees) Sample Size / (No. of Cases and % of Employees)

PA category (AS, IS, PM, CR, ST groups at Finance)  227  11 (5%)   
EB category (LS group at Finance)                    3  1 (33%)
PE group                                            22  2 (9%)
EX group                                            161  24 (15%)
Totals                                        413  38 (9%)

Scrolling to the Conclusion of the report linked by Mr. Wallace, did anybody think that 161 of 413 people in the Dept. of Finance being EX-level is a bit top heavy?  How many EX does DND have for 100,000+ Mil/Civ?  ???

Using Finance Canada's ratios, would we not have 39,000+ Col/Gen/Civ EX1+ 

 

[Monsoon]

Scrolling to the Conclusion of the report linked by Mr. Wallace, did anybody think that 161 of 413 people in the Dept. of Finance being EX-level is a bit top heavy?  How many EX does DND have for 100,000+ Mil/Civ?  ???

Using Finance Canada's ratios, would we not have 39,000+ Col/Gen/Civ EX1+ 

It seems like the files examined were chosen so that they "struck a balance between employee groups, options chosen and high-value payments." I would guess that EX1s would have both high salary rates and long years of service, meaning that their PiLs would be very large. That would be sure to trigger the audit risk assessment profile they used to choose who they audited, so I expect that proportionally many more EX1 payouts were audited than worker-bee payouts.

 

[Good2Golf]

It seems like the files examined were chosen so that they "struck a balance between employee groups, options chosen and high-value payments." I would guess that EX1s would have both high salary rates and long years of service, meaning that their PiLs would be very large. That would be sure to trigger the audit risk assessment profile they used to choose who they audited, so I expect that proportionally many more EX1 payouts were audited than worker-bee payouts.

My point wasn't about the relatively high number of the sample size of  the EX population payouts audited, but rather that the actual population of the EX branch (161) to the overall Fin C population.

Either the EX population is over a third of the Fin C personnel, or the legend in not well written and there are more employees in Fin C that were not even identified.

 

[Rheostatic]

Finance has 756 employees. 413 is just the population used for the audit. Don't ask me why, though.

 

[Good2Golf]

Still, that's 25% of the entire Dept at the EX level!

 

[dapaterson]

Still, that's 25% of the entire Dept at the EX level!

And their mandate and work likely justifies that, as a knowledge-centric organization.  Very different from DND/CF.

 

[BinRat55]

A little good news, several RCAF bases have announced payment for the 50%-ers. Theirs have been processed to the banks. They did note that the numbers were rather low.

Do you think this has something to do with the fact that they are "RCAF" or that they are smaller in population? Generally speaking, AF bases are smaller in population (not all obviously - Cold Lake is a rather large base) and when I was in Gander, our RMS were quite on the ball and very quick...

 

[Loachman]

Some of our people are getting theirs at the end of this month.

 

[AirDet]

Do you think this has something to do with the fact that they are "RCAF" or that they are smaller in population? Generally speaking, AF bases are smaller in population (not all obviously - Cold Lake is a rather large base) and when I was in Gander, our RMS were quite on the ball and very quick...

I'm not willing to say there is any particular reason why. My personal observation has been that RMS are all the same. As for RCAF bases being smaller I don't think that applies either. 8 Wing Trenton is a huge base and they've started paying out already. 12 Wing Shearwater is also sending to the banks.

No matter, I think our people are just glad that there is progress.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not willing to say there is any particular reason why. My personal observation has been that RMS are all the same. As for RCAF bases being smaller I don't think that applies either. 8 Wing Trenton is a huge base and they've started paying out already. 12 Wing Shearwater is also sending to the banks.

No matter, I think our people are just glad that there is progress.

For an air base, Trenton is big.  It's smaller than either Naval base, smaller than Borden, and smaller than seven Army bases.  "Air Force Big" is still less than half the size of Valcartier or Halifax.

 

[DAA]

I'm not willing to say there is any particular reason why. My personal observation has been that RMS are all the same. As for RCAF bases being smaller I don't think that applies either. 8 Wing Trenton is a huge base and they've started paying out already. 12 Wing Shearwater is also sending to the banks.

No matter, I think our people are just glad that there is progress.

Based on my own personal experience, I find that the Air Force has a tendancy to make processes "simple" while involving the least amount of people as possible.  Whilst the Army tends to place too many layers of approval in the Admin process.

 

[Loachman]

I find that the Air Force has a tendancy to make processes "simple" while involving the least amount of people as possible.

Not on the command and control side. No, not at all.

I just saw the worst op order in forty uniformed years today.

 

[honestyrules]

I noticed today it's showing on my end-of-april pay statement on EMAA. I'm in Saint-Jean, Qc.

 

[Good2Golf]

The Air Force makes justifying hotels easy....C2, not so much.

Not on the command and control side. No, not at all.

I just saw the worst op order in forty uniformed years today.

  :nod:


  Pretty spectacular, non?

 

[technophile]

in a awesome show of " stick it to you "  I was just informed by my OR that they will not be processing any 50% PIL payments until at least June.  Apparently, they are too busy.  ( I am in a unit of approx 500 pers with one of the largest ORs I have ever seen )

 

[ARMY_101]

in a awesome show of " stick it to you "  I was just informed by my OR that they will not be processing any 50% PIL payments until at least June.  Apparently, they are too busy.  ( I am in a unit of approx 500 pers with one of the largest ORs I have ever seen )

My OR administers 900 pers and we finished the last week of March. Priorities...

 

[vandoos283]

Hi, is this for the 50% and below or for everyone? Thanks.

 

[AirDet]

I was at a party this weekend and had a conversation with one of our OR clerks. They told me that several bases including this one didn't bother sending the PIL Applications to Ottawa as they came in like the CANFORGEN specified. Instead they sent them all in at once at the very end.

That's a pretty good kick in the teeth for those who had their crap together and submitted early. I guess those ones will be waiting till next near before they see any cash.

Then again, the clerk may have been mistaken.  :

 

[George Wallace]

"I was at a party".....

Say no more.

 

[kratz]

The next time you want help, insert your teeth.  :facepalm:

Your posts here continue to bash an understaffed trade compared to their duties assigned and
carring on with additional mandated work.

You are bitching on a private forum, anonymously maligning a hard working trade to your heart's delight.
Venting your frustration and offering logical fallacy 'proof' to make clerical efforts sound worse than the actually are.

Yet if a clerk were to stand near you during your duties and call your work into question
as "an expert" because 'I know how I would do it', those same comments would never be
accepted, compared with the crap you are intent on posting here.

There is a phrase, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

- Don't tell a trade how to do it's job outside of work is a good start.
- Ask the Chief Clerk if the rumour is true, because that is what really what you heard. Working clerks do NOT know it all.
- Find out why that choice was made? Because pay increase / allowances reviews (audits), claims and other admin take time,
- Along with other CF mandated training like PT standards, CRRs and the fact everyone thinks all clerks are experts in the trade from
QL3 on, but do not consider we need time for training.

Crap, I vented. Shrug, it was cathartic after reading AirDet's vendetta posts.