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Canadian Forces failing in gender integration and employment equity: report

recceguy, LCol Robinson is a typical loud mouth feminist that used the system to her advantage while she was in the CF. Once she left the CF she became a media "darling" as an advocate of women"rights" in the CF. Of course now she is collecting her hefty pension and can say anything she wants even if it isn‘t true. People like her make me sick.
 
It is easier to beg forgivness from the media and promise us a good thrashing, than to defend our actions to those too naive to understand the physical requirements of combat.

The first article seemed to suggest that the minister had concluded that files were be tampered with. I think it was poor practice of the journalist not to make the clariffication that it was an accusation and not confirmed. I‘m glad the latest article clariffied that. It is a simple omision like that which can put use in a very bad light to the public eye, and we should all be prepared to write letters to the editors of our papers if we ever catch such a glaring omission.

:cool: Yard Ape
 
Hmmm ... here‘s another article.

Monday, April 16, 2001 Back The Halifax Herald Limited

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hoopla about military equality just missing one thing - women


By Scott Taylor ON TARGET

In recent weeks, Defence Minister Art Eggleton has seemingly embarked on a one-man crusade to integrate women into combat units.

On International Women‘s Day, Eggleton proudly proclaimed that service on submarines - heretofore the last all-male bastion - was now open to both sexes. Although this decision ran counter to the navy‘s survey results and the advice of senior commanders, feminists praised the defence minister for "breaking down the barriers."

But days later, Eggleton‘s office released a damaging report concluding that "insensitivity, ignorance and biases" toward women remain rampant throughout the Canadian Armed Forces.

Although the study had been conducted by Capt. Sandra Perron, his own adviser on "the integration of women and minorities," Eggleton appeared to be shocked by the publicized results. Looking his combative best, he vehemently denounced this "neanderthal behaviour."

Echoing the threats issued two years before by Gen. Maurice Baril, chief of the defence staff, Eggleton decreed that such attitudes "would not be tolerated in the Forces" and that anyone harbouring such chauvinism should "look elsewhere for work." Once again, feminists applauded the minister of defence for "laying down the law."

On March 12, Eggleton went one step further when he wrote a letter to the Association for Women‘s Equity in the Canadian Forces. Contained in that correspondence was an admission that female army recruits were being treated unfairly due to "inexperienced" instructors making "biased" and "subjective" assessments designed to keep women out of the infantry.

In his letter, Eggleton alleged that the tougher male fitness standards had been improperly invoked (horrors!) and that although "the department has not uncovered any proof of this, the possibility that files may have been altered in an inappropriate manner cannot be excluded."

To get to the bottom of this scandal, Eggleton announced the commissioning of a full-blown board of inquiry and has made it his personal objective to establish a minimum of 13 per cent female representation in front-line units by the year 2010.

What is truly unfortunate is that Eggleton‘s proposed inquiry will not be public, and he will be nowhere near whatever‘s left of our Defence Department in 10 years so that he can be held accountable for his policies.

The army‘s only real hope for a reprieve from such politically driven experimentation is to expose the whole mess once and for all before a public forum. The record would show that Eggleton is not the first to set an unachievable quota that ignores the department‘s own exhaustive studies.

On Dec. 20, 1996, Lt.-Gen. Bill Leach, then a major-general and acting army commander, issued a directive that said: "In order to achieve integration, I have set a goal of achieving a critical mass of 25 per cent women on all future combat arms (training) serials."

He concluded by ordering his staff to "recruit to these targets."

At that time, there was a tremendous amount of internal discussion.

According to research, even if DND were to accept every woman who simply walked into a recruiting centre (regardless of ability, education level or physical handicap), it could never recruit more than a 16 per cent level of women.

Undaunted by the facts, then acting commander Leach and Gen. Baril pulled out all the stops in an attempt to convert their policy into reality. Physical training standards were "amended" so as not to provide an "impediment," and a $1.5-million television advertising campaign was launched in 1998.

The stated objective of the brass was to recruit 250 female combat soldiers. Despite herculean efforts by recruiting officers, the Leach-Baril initiative was a dismal flop. A mere 41 women signed up for jobs in the infantry, only three of whom graduated. None of these women served out their three-year contracts in the infantry.

Although it has been a full 12 years since a human rights ruling "allowed" women to serve in combat roles, females still represent only 0.6 per cent of our front-line units.

It is similar with the air force. Despite all the hoopla about allowing women to pilot our fighter aircraft, only a handful of "pioneers" have successfully completed the training. None has flown operationally, there are "no female fighter pilots in the service - and there are none in the training system," according to a DND spokesman.

Once he becomes aware of this fact, Eggleton will no doubt wish to denounce the "neanderthals" in the air force and launch another of his probes into this potential "scandal."

A third inquiry may soon prove necessary when it is learned that no women have yet been transferred to the submarine squadron.

It has been six weeks since International Women‘s Day. The navy admits that it has so far only had "a number of informal requests for information but no actual applications as yet."

Neanderthals!
 
There is only one way to reach these quotas: Revert to the old British traditon of Press Gangs. Cruise well known spot for recruits, get them drunk, slip them the Queen‘s Loonie(first pay) and have them wake up on base in combats. Retention will be solved by sending slackers to far flung UN postings worldwide.
 
I‘ve always said soccer is a game for sissies and girls - here‘s more proof: Letter-writer Anne Bennett asures readers she is "... the most volatile player on [her] mixed gender soccer team. [She‘ll] check guys twice [her] size."

That‘s nice, Anne - presumably the guys on your team are too polite to "fill you in" for your impertinence. Furthermore, in combat the other "players" will be trying to insert bayonets or other projectiles through your ribs - thus, if I may, perhaps the girly game of soccer isn‘t the best analogy?

Finally, real men play hockey (aka "War On Ice"), humourously described as:
"bone-crushing body-checks (aka "boning"), interference, roughing, fighting, tripping, hooking, cross-checking, slashing, spearing, butt-ending, misconducts - anything else is just figure-skating" (and, don‘t forget - there are no women in the NHL, plus in war there are no "referees")

Okay - now that I‘ve got that rant off my (hairy) chest, here‘s Anne‘s letter from today‘s Ottawa Citizen:

Men have no business telling women what to do
Anne Bennett
The Ottawa Citizen


I guess I won‘t be a soldier -- my grandaddy doesn‘t want me to.

And being a firewoman is out because some people who have never met me have decided automatically that I have physical limitations that would force me to carry an unconscious man down the stairs by his ankles. (What with my being weak and frail and all.)

They say this even though they don‘t know a bit about me, that I may in fact be in better shape than any of the letter writers ("Women just aren‘t warriors," April 14). Then again, maybe I‘m horrendously out of shape and I object to wars because of moral issues. The point is that men have no business making assumptions about, or making decisions for, women.

While I don‘t think the standards of physical fitness for the Canadian military should be lowered so that females can fit in, I also don‘t believe we should be excluded automatically because we are female.

And I don‘t want anyone telling me, as suggested by letter writer Eeva Sodhi, that I‘m not aggressive enough. I‘m the most volatile player on my mixed gender soccer team. I‘ll check guys twice my size.

Don‘t tell me "I can accept men being sent off to fight in the infantry, but certainly not my granddaughter." Sorry **** McLellan, if we don‘t fit the role you‘ve cast for us ("Not always equal").

And don‘t you dare call me or any other woman naive, Reginald R. Dixon ("No GI Janes"). I know a lot of guys who are thinking of joining the military and are assuming that it is all fun and games.

I don‘t want anyone deciding for me what I can and can‘t do. I can decide that just fine on my own, thank you.

Anne Bennett,

Cobden
 
Here‘s a graphic example of what happens when somebody with inadequate training and equipment goes "in harm‘s way" (i.e. goes somewhere they shouldn‘t have gone). Fortunately, she was able to save her life by screaming she was a journalist (whereas a real soldier does not have this luxury):


Reporter‘s terror as shrapnel hit her

FROM STEPHEN FARRELL IN COLOMBO

MARIE COLVIN, a Sunday Times journalist, recounted yesterday how she was wounded in an exchange of fire as she tried to slip through Sri Lankan Army lines while on an undercover assignment with the Tamil Tigers.
Ms Colvin told how government soldiers suddenly emerged from their advance listening post bordering Tamil Tiger territory near Parayanakulam, in the northern Vavuniya district, firing nervously at shadowy shapes in the darkness before them.

Struck by grenade shrapnel in the chest, shoulder and left eye, the US-born correspondent, who was named Best Foreign Correspondent in the British Press Awards last month, collapsed screaming “Journalist, journalist, American” as her party scattered around her.

She was then rushed by Sri Lankan soldiers to a remote hospital, where she screamed at medics not to operate on her eye, fearing that she would lose it unless she was seen by specialists.

Ms Colvin, 44, is now recovering in the intensive care unit of Colombo’s Asiri Hospital, where doctors are trying to assess whether they can save the sight in her left eye. They have carried out a preliminary operation to prevent infection and a CAT scan.

She told The Times that she had finished her story four days before Monday night’s incident and was driven by the Tamil Tigers from rebel positions in their northeast strongholds, which are rarely visited by foreign journalists. They took her to a fishing village from where she made her way to the intended crossing point, perilously close to the danger zone where Tiger and government positions meet.

There she spent two nights — “a miserable Sri Lankan version of Groundhog Day” — trying to cross government lines before abandoning each attempt because she and a party of local people in civilian clothes were afraid of being caught.

On the third night they took a chance and tried to slip through.

Ms Colvin said that the first she knew things had gone wrong was when the shooting began. “They fired on us, which I can’t really complain about because all they saw was shapes moving in the dark,” she said. “It was terrifying. You could see them moving out of their base, firing all around them and coming toward us in some sort of mopping-up operation.

“Then I got hit. I got shrapnel in the chest but that’s OK — it didn’t go deep and didn’t affect anything. What I’m worried about is the eye. I have still got shrapnel in it but I am all right, the worst is over.

“The doctors are very efficient but the thing I really need is to be flown out to get an operation. Can you imagine it, sitting in Vavuniya having some doctor saying ‘You are going to lose your eye anyway so we are going to operate’? But I insisted on going to another hospital.”

She is now expected to spend at least 48 hours in Sri Lanka before doctors give the all-clear for her to be moved.

The Sunday Times is believed to be considering plans to fly her to America or another country.

Ashley Wills, the US Ambassador to Sri Lanka, has voiced concern at a three-page statement issued by the Sri Lankan Government yesterday criticising Ms Colvin for travelling to rebel-held areas without clearance, failing to tell them where she was going and overstaying by a week on her fortnight visa issued on March 17.

After spending more than an hour at her bedside, the ambassador said: “We hope there will be no more complications in that regard. The Government has issued its statement but it doesn’t say anything about criminal proceedings for overstaying, and we are encouraged by that.

“I have already called the Foreign Ministry and urged that they handle this in a rounded and mature way.”

Sri Lanka’s Tamil Tiger rebels have been fighting since 1983 for a homeland for minority Tamils, waging a civil war that has left more than 63,000 people dead.

Ms Colvin said last night: “I was not there on some sort of sneaky spy mission. I went there because, although it is closed to journalists, talking to the Tamil Tigers and writing about a humanitarian crisis are important issues.”
 
Sounds vaugley reminicent of the story from a few years ago. There was a female in Toronto, a Canadian citizen, of Serb decent. She thought it would be cool to go to Bosnia and fight for the Serbs, and her ancestors homeland. Turns out she was a pretty good shot and soon found herself sniping for her chosen force. She was good enough that an anti-sniper team was sent out to take care of her. However, they were‘nt as good as she for they only wounded her. Faster than you can say, " I‘m really a Canadian citizen and didn‘t think this was for real", she was back on a plane, whisked through customs without so much as a how do you do and esconded into an Ontario hospital for the operation and rehab. Ain‘t OHIP great? I‘m going to guess she is probably well set up in her community now, spending friday nights regailing her comrades of the crucial fights waged by their oppressed brothers back home. Getting free drinks and hero accolades whenever she appears. Just thought you‘d like more kindling for the fire. Cheers!
 
bossi,

what did that story have to do with gener equality in the military?
(notice how I don‘t say equity)

Also, my best friend plays on a guys hockey team and does pretty well. (she played on a womens hockey team but they sucked) And in hockey you are wering so much equipment it‘s hard to tell someone‘ s gender.
 
(chuckle)
In an oblique fashion, I‘m suggesting that "outsiders" often get onto the soapbox and spout off about things they really don‘t understand (i.e. a journalist is literally taking their life into their hands by going into a combat environment - not really a bright idea - especially if they haven‘t had any training on how to react to incoming fire. It‘s an even longer "stretch" to use an example of a female who checks males while playing soccer - soccer is a "non-contact" sport, whereas bayonetting isn‘t - I know, I know ... we‘d like to believe our sophisticated technology will enable/ensure a standoff distance, and thereby render the bayonet obsolete ... but until it‘s guaranteed ...)
I also enjoyed the jibe about hockey eqpt - sure enough, players are well-protected (goalies included) - recreational hockey players aren‘t out there to get injured, and that‘s why non-contact hockey is becoming the norm (does your friend play in a full contact league - there‘s a big difference). My marginally tongue-in-cheek point of using hockey is to underscore the difference between soccer and a real sport: "war on ice".
Dileas,
M.B.
 
gotcha.

My friend plays in a league that is officially ‘no contact‘, although the rules get broken.

And outsiders often don‘t have a clue of what happens in the military. (not nessesarily, but often) I just didn‘t think your analogy was to the point.
 
Survey Says, "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!"

Where‘s Bob Ubanks from the Family Feud when we need him. These are the same ladies that would drop whatever they‘re doing to be on TV kissing the guy at the drop of a hat. Now they‘re complaining?! I thought that 80‘s style aerobics classes and Tae-bo were more draining for women than the Regular Force Infantry program. If they fail so be it!!!! You‘re joining the ARMY!!!! Not some sorority at Saugeen-Maitland Residence at the University of Western Ontario. Women will do the dumbest things to get into a sorority. Does it make sense?! Not particularly. Pretty soon they‘ll be using SHARP so that the ladies can go and powder their noses in groups and gossip about how they slept with their male section commander to pass their trade course!!!!! Last time I checked, Fratenization was still a military charge. The Army isn‘t Ally McBeal!!! And lastly, Maurice Baril has turned into a political puppet!!! His daughter is a CIC for the Army Cadets. I wonder if he has the guts to make her take the infantry course and see if she can handle his standards!!!

-the patriot- :D
 
Patriot,
I find your tone offensive.

"Pretty soon they‘ll be using SHARP so that the ladies can go and powder their noses in groups and gossip about how they slept with their male section commander to pass their trade course"
SHARP exists for valid reasons. Though it can be overused, and I laugh with everyone else at the hilarious videos, it has a valid reason for existing. Of the females I have worked with in the Army, both clerks and other engineers, none of us go off to "powder our nose".

There are valid concerns about the excessivly high failure rates for the infantry course in Wainwright. I would expect females to fail at slightly higher rates than men. I would not expect the failure rates to be so much higher. There is obviously something going on.

"The Army isn‘t Ally McBeal?" Gosh, that‘s a surprise.

I find the rest of your post also demeaning. ie. "Women do the dumbest things to get into a sorority". I am not one who is prone to complain, or to cry harrasment at every opprotunity. I work with the guys, who are my friends. I take, and I give, a certain amount of flak. However, your comments are not in line with the civility of this board, and belittle the acomplishments of many women in the Canadian Army, who do thier job the same as the men.

And if you think the happy face at the bottom of your post somehow negates it‘s offensivness, think again. If your post was tounge in cheek you should have made that clear to begin with.
 
My apologies if that was taken into offense. But do understand the context my post was written in. We all remember Ms. Darva Conger from "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire" who claimed to be a Gulf War veteran and it turned out she wasn‘t. Low and behold she ended up in Playboy!! Is that what you call equality and being gender inclusive?! Is that how you gain respect among your male colleagues?! No, it makes one the butt of jokes and insults. Hence the section of my post "Gossipping about who slept with their section commander to pass their trade course." I‘ve seen it happen. In the corporate sector this nonsense happens all the time where a female boss ends up dating a subordinate or vice/versa. When they breakup the whole office is laughing about it. Meanwhile that female is now crying straight out of the office. Should I feel bad about that? Who brought that upon themselves? It‘s good to know that you can laugh at those absurd SHARP videos. And in closing, I have reported to many women who are still in uniform. And I have respected them as competent and trusworthy NCM‘s and officers. So, I am personally insulted that you assume that I am not aware of the contributions of women to the Canadian Armed Forces. What I am against is the mindnumbing garbage we see everyday regarding gender issues with the military. There are plenty of people that SHOULD NOT be in uniform, male and female alike. As it has been said in the past by Michael Dorosh himself, "This is not a politically correct forum." All opinions here are welcome.

P.S. You should check out Rush Week at
a Sorority at Western and you‘ll have
a finer appreciation of the "dumb things"
your sisters do to gain a pledge pin and
some very fake friends.

-the patriot-
 
I know this is not a politicaly correct forum. The Army is not particual popular in politicaly correct circles, and I am well aware of that. It was the tone of your post that I found offensive. For instance, the stupid things women do to get into a soroity has no bearing on women in the military. Neither does the playboy who lied about beingin the Gulf War.

I do agree that there are lot of people of both genders who don‘t belong in the military. And while you might feel offended that I would think you are not aware of contributions to women in the military, you made no mention of such in your post.

I am also against a lot of the gender related garbage in the CF right now.
And the SHARP vidoes are pretty funny.
 
Ender,

The comment regarding "the dumb things women do to get into a sorority" do have bearing upon what happens in the military. For example, I have seen, and you have probably seen women "in uniform" that pull off stunts that would make the most chauvinistic pig of a man look like a lamb. Who‘s kidding whom?! It‘s happened in Kingston at RMC and a lot of other places. There is behaviour occurring within the ranks that never gets reported up the chain of command. And both sexes are guilty of that!!! There are women that are worse than men.

-the patriot-
 
Then mention army-specific behaviour, or at least mention how it applies.
 
As it has been said in the past by Michael Dorosh himself, "This is not a politically correct forum."

That wasn‘t me, sorry. I actually have no problem with the concept of political correctness, when applied in a common-sense manner. I wouldn‘t think of imprisoning people who use the word nigger, but I also wouldn‘t tolerate anyone using it in my presence.

If you can provide a link to a post in which I said anything like that, I will apologize, but please don‘t put words in my mouth.
 
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