"Canadian diamonds are no better than conflict diamonds from Africa."

[Troop Suporter]

I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this. I think it is an actual concern. So, because it's a Native issue, it has to be connected with welfare and money?

The one group is trying to dissuade Americans from buying Canadian diamonds. American interest in diamonds would be an asset to the group if they wanted money.

<i>I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this. I think it is an actual concern.</i>

No more than it is for the rest of us. We only own the surface of our properties. The government can sell the mining rights to anyone, and there's not a darn thing we can do about it as property owners.

<i>American interest in diamonds would be an asset to the group if they wanted money. </i>
It seems the First Nations are fighting this simply because they are not getting a cut.

 

[Jacqueline]

This continual bitching by native Canadians is REALLY starting to make my blood boil to dangerous bloody levels.

Is it native Canadians, or just bitching in general? Because someone is always bitching.

so why do natives get special treatment??????? 

This may be off topic,  but you should ask someone in government.

 

[Strike]

Shec,

You bring up a very good point.

A mine doesn't just open.  Before anything happens all those who might be affected are contacted and discussion begin.  It's all part of the environmental assessment which is mantatory for projects such as this.  Talks are a big part of every EA.  So, why didn't the band bring uo the issues at the beginning?  Or contact other bands that have had mining issues to deal with?

It looks as if someone is p.o.'d because they're not getting what they feel they deserve.  Sure, maybe there's a point there.  But sometimes you have to step up and do the work yourself and stop relying on everyone else to solve your problems.  This should have been done during the planning phase.

Sorry.  No sympathy here.  There was a chance to do something, and it wasn't taken.  Who's to blame for that?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Because of my day job  , I offer information, and no opinion....

The only proposed diamond mine in the Nishnawbe-Aski Nation territory is the Victor Project (Victor Project: Factsheet) near Attawapiskat First Nation - see map below.  Groundbreaking for the project took place in June 2006 according to this news release.

"The Victor Project, currently in construction, will create 375 full time jobs during operations. Over 300 First Nation people have worked on the project so far. The GDP effect on northeastern Ontario is estimated to be $4.2 billon and the cumulative GDP effect for the province is $6.7 billion ....  De Beers is investing $2 billion in Canada to develop two diamond mines concurrently. These will be the company's first mines outside of Africa. The Snap Lake project in the NWT is scheduled to begin production in fall 2007 and Victor in fall 2008."

As someone else mentioned, an Impact Benefit Agreement has been ratified by the First Nation, according to this news release:

''In a ratification vote held on June 21, 2005 involving both on-reserve and off-reserve members of the First Nation, 85.5% voted in support of the agreement. Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....  Commenting on the agreement, the Chief of the Attawapiskat First Nation, Mike Carpenter, said: "Our people have had a great deal to consider in the negotiation and ratification process for this agreement. We wanted to ensure that we had a sound and fair agreement which would provide long-term benefits for our First Nation. While there are still concerns over the impact of the project, the people have decided that the significant long term benefits for our community and our children outweigh the risks." ''

Canada has provided some funding to assist the First Nation in gaining benefits from the proposed mine - details here:

''The Government of Canada (19 Aug 05) announced $363,300 in funding to Attawapiskat First Nation for economic development and environmental initiatives arising from potential diamond mining in the area. These activities range from environmental assessment work to exploration of business development opportunities with private sector partners and James Bay Coast First Nations  ....  Chief Mike Carpenter said, “Creating wealth helps more than just the community of Attawapiskat and people living in our area. Future economic development activities can also benefit the economies of Ontario and Canada.”  This funding, provided by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, is assisting Attawapiskat First Nation in:  negotiating with De Beers Canada regarding economic benefits resulting from the planned mining activities including employment, training, and financial compensation; working with other First Nations to develop enhanced air service in the Hudson Bay and James Bay area in anticipation of the planned diamond mine and associated activities; and
community consultation and consensus-building with respect to the environmental assessment for the proposed Victor diamond mine.''

Discussion, carry on....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Aww folks, the clock rang and it was time for a " Native" story on CBC and they went looking for a malcontent to give them his version of any stupid story that then became a Canadian Native thingy against Uncle Sam thingy......yada, etc., yada.....run with it,..yada, etc, yada,......

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Let's look into the oilpatch in Alberta where they are considering importing workers from China or Mexico -  www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/employees/article.jsp?content=20060522_77876_77876.

Looks to me like some of our First Nations citizens could easily get into that market and prosper...

 

[Jacqueline]

''In a ratification vote held on June 21, 2005 involving both on-reserve and off-reserve members of the First Nation, 85.5% voted in support of the agreement. Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....  Commenting on the agreement, the Chief of the Attawapiskat First Nation, Mike Carpenter, said: "Our people have had a great deal to consider in the negotiation and ratification process for this agreement. We wanted to ensure that we had a sound and fair agreement which would provide long-term benefits for our First Nation. While there are still concerns over the impact of the project, the people have decided that the significant long term benefits for our community and our children outweigh the risks." ''

If 85.5% of on/off recerve Natives voted yes, in support of the ratification agreement then the remaining percentage must be the ones who are complaining and not a separate or particular band.

Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....

 

I know her.  ;D

"The Victor Project, currently in construction, will create 375 full time jobs during operations. Over 300 First Nation people have worked on the project so far. The GDP effect on northeastern Ontario is estimated to be $4.2 billon and the cumulative GDP effect for the province is $6.7 billion ....  De Beers is investing $2 billion in Canada to develop two diamond mines concurrently. These will be the company's first mines outside of Africa. The Snap Lake project in the NWT is scheduled to begin production in fall 2007 and Victor in fall 2008."

''The Government of Canada (19 Aug 05) announced $363,300 in funding to Attawapiskat First Nation for economic development and environmental initiatives arising from potential diamond mining in the area.

I think 2$ billion dollars benefit outweighs $363,300 in funding. It would be funding for making more money.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit more, from the main company doing the exploring and development, presented without comment for information purposes only....

De Beers and diamonds are good for Canada's Aboriginal communities
News release, 8 Dec 06

  TORONTO, Dec. 8 /CNW/ - De Beers contributes to sustainable communities
and economies wherever we operate and we are proud of the relationships we
have developed in the countries where we produce diamonds. We believe that
meaningful consultation is required to develop mutual trust and long-term
cooperative relationships with Aboriginal communities. We prioritize
communication and consultation with communities throughout the life-cycle of
our diamond projects.
    De Beers has signed a range of agreements with Aboriginal communities
across Canada, including Nishnawbe Aski Nation communities, which cover early
and advanced exploration, mine construction and production. These agreements
set out the work to be undertaken, our environmental and cultural commitments
as well as how communities can participate in, and benefit from, our projects.
    De Beers is fully committed to the highest environmental standards, and
to this end, we have received ISO 140001 certification for the environmental
management systems at all of our projects and operations in Canada. Our Snap
Lake and Victor projects have undergone very thorough environmental assessment
processes which included extensive community consultation. The input we
received during the consultation with local Aboriginal communities,
particularly in the area of Traditional Ecological Knowledge, has resulted in
improvements in our mine designs.
    Our contribution to communities goes beyond that which is set out in
agreements. In Canada over the last three years De Beers has contributed over
$2 million in social investment with a focus on Aboriginal literacy, education
and training; all of this before we have started production in Canada.
    Over the last four years we have spent over $300 000 to provide 19,000
new books to school children in remote Aboriginal communities. In addition, we
are investing $500,000 over five years in the Lt. Governor's Aboriginal
Literacy Summer Camps in Northern Ontario.
    We have built an $800,000 training centre in Attawapiskat in Northern
Ontario which is being used to ensure that the people of this community are
well prepared for the employment opportunities offered by the Victor Mine. In
the Northwest Territories we provided $500,000 for the initial development of
the Kimberlite Career and Technical Centre in Yellowknife and we have
partnered with our contractors at the Snap Lake project to provide a further
$750,000 for the expansion of this successful training centre.
    "We see local Aboriginal communities as vital partners in any mining
project we develop. To this end, we are committed to working with communities
to maximize opportunities for local employment and the development of local
Aboriginal businesses as suppliers and contractors to our mining projects,"
said Jim Gowans, President and CEO of De Beers Canada Inc.
    From exploration through production, the diamond industry is bringing
employment and economic growth, training and education, and business
opportunities for remote Aboriginal communities in Canada. De Beers will
continue to live up to the highest ethical and business principles in its
dealings with Aboriginal peoples and all levels of government in Canada.
Diamonds are Forever. Diamonds are for Good.


    Background note to editors:
    ---------------------------

    Leaders across Canada have publicly recognized the value of diamonds for
    Canada:

    <<
    -  Prime Minister Stephen Harper, August 17, 2006, at the grand opening
      of Tahera Diamond Corporation's Jericho mine in Nunavut: Mines like
      Jericho are making Canada one of the largest and most important
      diamond producers in the world. There are currently 180 employed at
      this mine. This type of success will help build a new North, paving
      the way for new and exciting business enterprises.

    -  Prime Minister Stephen Harper, July 14, 2006 address to UK Chamber of
      Commerce: A decade ago Canadian diamonds were only a gleam in a
      prospector's eye. Today there are three producing mines and two more
      in development. And the Royal Bank predicts diamonds will bring over
      30 billion pounds (almost C$70 billion) to the Canadian economy over
      the next 25 years.

    -  Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, June 2006: The Victor diamond project
      is great news for the people of Attawapiskat and the surrounding
      region. De Beers' investment here means more than just new jobs. It
      will provide opportunities for families, local businesses and First
      Nation communities.

    -  Joe Rabesca, former Grand Chief of the Tlicho First Nation, NWT,
      March 30, 2006: When we negotiated our first IBA (Impact Benefit
      Agreement negotiated with BHP Billiton Ekati Diamond Mine), we focused
      on jobs and employment for our people. When the second diamond mine
      was developed (Diavik Diamond Mine), the IBA we negotiated focused on
      business opportunities. This agreement with De Beers (for the Snap
      Lake Project) provides Tlicho citizens with new opportunities to get
      their strength from the land through the programs and services that
      our government will be able to offer.

    -  Honorable Ethel Blondin-Andrew, former Minister of State (Northern
      Development), February 3, 2005: The Northwest Territories Industrial
      Mining Skills Strategy directly opens the door to a wide range of
      rewarding careers in the mining industry and enables Aboriginal
      communities to take full advantage of the exciting employment
      opportunities arising in the NWT's expanding diamond mining industry.
      The diamond industry has given Aboriginal communities in the North
      plenty of optimism for the future.

    World leaders have publicly recognized the value of diamonds for southern
    Africa:

    -  Nelson Mandela: "The diamond industry is vital to the southern African
      economy" (17th November 1999)

    -  Thabo Mbeki, 17th November 2004: "We know that diamonds are a valued
      source of employment, foreign exchange, tax revenue, new investments
      and play a positive role in enhancing the overall economic well being
      of countries and local communities"

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "For our people, every diamond purchase
      represents food on the table; better living conditions; better
      healthcare; safe drinking water; more roads to connect our remote
      communities and much more" (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "We have prudently used the revenues from
      diamonds to build a modern nation and a vibrant economy"
      (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "It is thanks to diamonds...that we have
      seen our country transform from one of the poorest in the world at
      Independence, to the middle income status that it has now attained"
      (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "I urge you to continue supporting us by
      buying more and more diamonds because for us the joy of your
      celebrations with diamonds is also our joy" (7th June 2006)
    >>

For further information: Linda Dorrington, Manager, Public and Corporate
Affairs, De Beers Canada Inc., Tel: (416) 645-1710 ext 2107, Cell: (416)
818-2254, Email: linda.dorrington@ca.debeersgroup.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

>The concern is that they're not getting what they perceive to be their cut of the profits.  (I don't know whether they own the rights to the diamonds or not.)

>How do you know this for sure?

How else do you interpret, "Our people, our children, are languishing in poverty while these resources are being extracted from their territory."?

 

[Jacqueline]

I just don't see how this is a gig to get dollars.

Would they be so stupid to word it like that?

 

[GO!!!]

I just don't see how this is a gig to get dollars.

With First Nations groups, it is always about money. They say that they are "guardians of the land" but in reality, all they want is to be the ones that make the most money from whatever project is in the works (hydro,oil,gold,diamonds,timber,fish etc.)

Look at the last round of stupidity in Caledonia. The local native group did'nt give a damn about that land until a developer built the infrastructure and luxury homes on it, then suddenly it was sacred ground that justified violence to protect.

Would they be so stupid to word it like that?

Why would they tear down power lines, blockade highways and railroad tracks, shoot at police officers and scream racism every time one of them is jailed? Because they can, because we as a "civilised" society very rarely call them out (Oka) and because it works.

They know from experience that they can perpetrate acts of domestic terror as a method of achieving political aims, and they continue to do it.

 

[Jacqueline]

IMO

I know acts of violence are unacceptable. But I honestly don't think that what happened in the past (residential schools, language restrictions etc.) has completely healed over yet. The insecurity is going from generation to generation, along with the belief that Natives are still worth nothing. It's such a shame.

I think First Nations are so highly discriminated against and whatever they do is going to be looked at as some type of scam.  How are they going to ever come out of this "attitude" like that?

I know that many other races of people have been invaded as well, but I think the Native situation is unique because the culture is based on hunting/fishing. When the resources have been meddled with, the human has to adapt to their new environment, and in this case (way back when) they were made to believe that they had reason to feel shameful about their culture.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry MJ, that sympathy card has been played to many times. If they want out of the vicious circle they're caught in, they'll have to pull up their bootsraps and do it themselves. No more handouts to fritter away. Not from my pocket anyway.

 

[GO!!!]

IMO
I know acts of violence are unacceptable. But I honestly don't think that what happened in the past (residential schools, language restrictions etc.) has completely healed over yet. The insecurity is going from generation to generation, along with the belief that Natives are still worth nothing. It's such a shame.

I honestly don't think you know many natives or have ever lived on a reserve. Not every native was in a residential school, and not every person that went to one was abused. How long can you use generational wrongs to justify current ones? Millions of Jews have been persecuted the world over for thousands of years - yet their diaspora does not feel the need to have shootouts with our police forces.

Where did you get the perception that natives are worthless? Bit of personal prejudice? They most certainly are not - no ethnic group is.

The shame is that we have not stood up to this thinly disguised white apologist bullying. I have nothing to be ashamed for, or to compensate this generation of natives for. If individuals were wronged, fine, let's deal with it, but there is no such thing as a "second generation residential school survivor" any more than there is such a thing as a "second generation holocaust survivor".

I think First Nations are so highly discriminated against and whatever they do is going to be looked at as some type of scam.  How are they going to ever come out of this "attitude" like that?

I think that unless the general population and FN themselves start to see themselves as equal to the rest of us and not deserving of special treatment, this false perception will prevail.

Scam? What do you call demands for money and resources that you are not legally entitled to?

I know that many other races of people have been invaded as well, but I think the Native situation is unique because the culture is based on hunting/fishing. When the resources have been meddled with, the human has to adapt to their new environment, and in this case (way back when) they were made to believe that they had reason to feel shameful about their culture.

Go back far enough, everyone's culture was based on hunting and fishing.

As to resources, I don't recall any documented evidence of the six nations having diamond mines or timber mills.

Natives have proven to be just as adept at adapting as anyone else, you'll notice that "traditional" hunting is now done dressed in Gore-tex on snowmobiles with rifles.

I'm made to feel shameful about my culture everyday, as a White anglo male - but that does'nt justify violent outbursts and a culture of intimidation and violence against all who refuse to acquiese to your demands.

 

[Jacqueline]

I honestly don't think you know many natives or have ever lived on a reserve. Not every native was in a residential school, and not every person that went to one was abused. How long can you use generational wrongs to justify current ones? Millions of Jews have been persecuted the world over for thousands of years - yet their diaspora does not feel the need to have shootouts with our police forces.

Where did you get the perception that natives are worthless? Bit of personal prejudice? They most certainly are not - no ethnic group is.

The shame is that we have not stood up to this thinly disguised white apologist bullying. I have nothing to be ashamed for, or to compensate this generation of natives for. If individuals were wronged, fine, let's deal with it, but there is no such thing as a "second generation residential school survivor" any more than there is such a thing as a "second generation holocaust survivor".
I think that unless the general population and FN themselves start to see themselves as equal to the rest of us and not deserving of special treatment, this false perception will prevail.

Scam? What do you call demands for money and resources that you are not legally entitled to?
Go back far enough, everyone's culture was based on hunting and fishing.

As to resources, I don't recall any documented evidence of the six nations having diamond mines or timber mills.

Natives have proven to be just as adept at adapting as anyone else, you'll notice that "traditional" hunting is now done dressed in Gore-tex on snowmobiles with rifles.

I'm made to feel shameful about my culture everyday, as a White anglo male - but that does'nt justify violent outbursts and a culture of intimidation and violence against all who refuse to acquiese to your demands.

You know I still think that residential schools have a large impact on the actions of people. Even though it doesn't justify anything.
My grandmother was in one, she is still impacted by it. The things that she went through, I don't blame her.
I understand about the "sympathy card" but I'm not playing it. It's just true. 

 

[STONEY]

At the time residential schools were in common use for natives they were also in use for non natives as well.  Try talking to a lot of peoples grandparents and you would find horror stories as well . What was acceptable bahavior in schools in that era, people would today be put in jail for.  Funny thing is none of them are wineing and looking for compensation.

Toodles

 

[Kat Stevens]

Mount Cashell, anyone?  Wasn't a native within a decent bowshot of that place.

 

[foresterab]

Okay....another take from the day job.

One of the native communities I deal with here is extremely traditional...but they've also been one of the best ones to heal my bias against first nations.  The reason for this the way they have reviewed the roles of individuals and the age of the individuals for the purpose of trying to move the community forward.  Breaking it down it looks like this:

The current elders - these are the traditional leaders of the community but do not tend to sit on the band council.  Due to their experiences with the residental schools they find it extremely hard to deal with "the white man" but are often those that now push for education of the youth

The middle aged - these are the children of the elders who more often than not have been raised with the creed of don't trust whitey and don't trust schools.  They unfortunately are now often limited by lack of education and a percieved lifestyle that they are owed everything (depending on the individual).  These are the majority of the band council members and are whom I have most professional dealings

The young adults - These are the ones that are going back to the elders to try to recover some of the cultural values and tend to be much more ambitious than their parents.  They see the oportunities around them and are chasing some of them and are pushing for the education for their children.  The biggest challenge is learning how to meet some of the european traditions (being on time for example) while not being viewed as giving up the culture.

The children - the culture clash.  MTV and hip hop combined with trapping and the people's language.  However they realize that unless they want to live in a cabin all their lives they need to work towards a goal. 

Why I break this down is to try to illustrate how the residental schools affected the generations.  For those elders that are willing to move forward and push for the communities..great things happen. Opposing this are some young adults who refuse to deal with anyone not from the community and hold everyone back.    It's a gradual healing process that in the short time I've been here I've seen change.

Much as I hate to say it the passing of some of the most anti-white man elders has improved relations.  Likewise the few middleclass folks that were working "the whitemans way" are/have raised kids of their own and proved you can work as a native person and not loose your culture...these are becoming the new elders. 

Overall....it boils down to both the individuals and the communities to look internally and around them and figure out where they're going.  And this reconcilliation process is not easy for anyone to handle...white or native.

I'll think over the original topic of resource claims and maybe post on it later

 

[niner domestic]

Stoney: Check your facts... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020724/mount_cashel_victims_020724?s_name=&no_ads=

 

[Edward Campbell]

Stoney: Check your facts... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020724/mount_cashel_victims_020724?s_name=&no_ads=

Ineed!

See also: St. Joseph's Training School for Boys, in Alfred, ON, which was operated by the Christian Schools of Ottawa, and St. John's Training School for Boys, in Uxbridge, ON which was operated by the Toronto Christian Brothers.