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Canada's First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, etc. (merged)

An oldie but goodie - as a reminder that this is not new. We have been doing this to ourselves for quite a while.

The prospect of a pipeline bringing the natural gas to North American energy markets was originally analyzed in the 1970s with the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry. During that inquiry, Justice Berger heard testimony from diverse groups with an interest in the pipeline. The inquiry was notable for the voice it gave to the First Peoples whose traditional territory the pipeline would traverse. Berger stated that a pipeline should be postponed for 10 years, estimating that it would take this long for land claims to be settled and for First Peoples to be ready for the impact of such a project.[3] Before the Trudeau government could act on Berger's report, it was defeated at the polls in 1979. The short-lived government of Joe Clark also failed to act on the report. When the Liberal government was re-elected in 1980, it approved construction of an oil pipeline from Norman Wells to Zama, Alberta, through Dehcho territory where land claims have yet to be settled.

Exploration continued at a steady pace and by 1995 there were over 1,900 wells above the 60th parallel. In addition, aboriginal groups settled numerous land claims. The Inuvialuit settled the first land claim in 1984, followed by the Sahtu and Gwichʼin. By the late 1990s, companies once again seriously considered a pipeline. The Canadian government sold mineral claim rights, leading to C$400 million in bids and over C$1 billion in work commitments.

With the first wave of land claims settled, negotiations began between oil and gas companies and local aboriginal groups. These negotiations proved successful in October 2001, when ConocoPhillips, Shell, ExxonMobil, and Imperial Oil signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Aboriginal Pipeline Group. The APG was formed to represent the Inuvialuit, Sahtu, and Gwichʼin. The Memorandum of Understanding offered the APG a financial stake in the pipeline.[4]

On June 19, 2003 the Aboriginal Pipeline Group, and TransCanada Corp. signed an agreement giving the aboriginal groups of the Northwest Territories one-third ownership of the pipeline project.[5]

On 11 March 2011, the Mackenzie Valley pipeline was granted federal cabinet approval. The National Energy Board granted a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity.[6]

By 2016, the projected cost of the pipeline had grown to almost $16 billion.[2] Due to a combination of factors such as the growing extraction of cheaper natural gas sources in North America and the regulatory approval far outpacing the expected timeline, the joint-venture partnership lead by Imperial Oil announced the abandonment of the project in 2017.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenzie_Valley_Pipeline

I was discussing the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline in class in High School.

I was facing retirement when it was approved.

Surprisingly the world had changed.

Canada, apparently, does not know how to make decisions.  We never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.  (The downside of Presbyterianism - typified by fractious debate).

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My Dad ran on a Provincial NDP ticket with Tom Berger in the 60's, they have been family friends ever since.
 
For those following this closely, blockade is up at new hazelton again lol.

This time I am stuck at the away from home terminal not at home haha. So these darn protestors are making me $50/hr on excessive heldaway bahaha. Last time I was getting time with the family and got to make my kids breakfast, baked french toast, pancakes etc.

I can suffer through these downturns.. but a lot of people affected can't. So while I enjoy the down time, other people are having financial issues due to it and are starting to really resent the protestors.

I think the blockades are backfiring as far as public sentiment goes.
Abdullah
 
Let the whack a mole begin ...
... while the Trotskyist International Marxist Tendency offers up its support/suggestions/lessons to be learned ...
... Working-class Canadians and Indigenous land defenders have the same enemy, who has the whole power of the state behind them. Our strongest weapon is solidarity. An attack against one is an attack against all. Rather than calling on the federal government to intervene, organized labour needs to take action and join the blockades in support of the Wet’suwet’en and struggle together against our common enemy. The railway workers should be joining blockades and shut down the rail network in defence of their jobs and Indigenous rights. This is the best way to defend ourselves and have our demands met.

The Ontario Federation of Labour, the BC Teachers’ Federation, CUPW, CUPE national, CUPE Ontario, UFCW and other unions have issued statements in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en. This is an excellent step in the right direction. However, more needs to be done. The leadership of the unions could learn a thing or two from these blockades. More has been achieved in two weeks of blockades – breaking the unjust laws of Canadian capitalism – than 20 years of “reconciliation”.

The unions need to begin taking similar militant action when faced with picket line injunctions and back-to-work legislation. The involvement of organized labour with the solidarity blockades in the form of mass protests and solidarity strikes would be decisive in this situation, and would ensure that the demands of workers and land defenders are met.

(...)

If and when the police or military move against the rail blockades, there will also likely be a general crackdown on all actions of protest and civil disobedience in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en. Now, more than ever, unity and solidarity are our strength in this fight. All those who stand in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en, including the trade unions, must be prepared to take decisive, militant solidarity action in order to defend Indigenous rights, defend the blockades, and to continue the fight for Indigenous rights and the interests of all working people.

(...)

Reconciliation is dead. Revolution is alive. The railways have been shut down. Now it’s the time to shut down the country, shut down the colonial legacy of Canada, and shut down capitalism.
 
The blockade to the CN tracks by the mill here lasted about 10 minutes before the reserve chief told the kids from Vancouver to fuck off and go home.
 
CloudCover said:
The blockade to the CN tracks by the mill here lasted about 10 minutes before the reserve chief told the kids from Vancouver to frig off and go home.

:rofl:
 
Today,

Wet’suwet’en solidarity rail blockade setup in Toronto, Milton GO train service suspended
https://globalnews.ca/news/6595220/toronto-rail-blockade/

Toronto police could be seen at the rail site and some protesters could be seen being escorted off the tracks as several others remained.
 
Can dogs be used by police to end some of these? Sorry, they slipped off the leash ...
 
If one believes polls these days, public support seems to be slipping ....
A growing proportion of Canadians are turning sour on the blockade of key transportation corridors in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en Nation and support police intervention to end the blockades, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted on behalf of Global News.

Hereditary chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en Nation in British Columbia oppose the construction of the Coastal GasLink natural gas pipeline in British Columbia, despite the project being approved by the local band councils whose territory the pipeline passes through. Protests by Indigenous peoples and their supporters have blocked project construction in BC and have also spread to other regions of the country, including blocking main rail lines that move freight and passengers. On Monday the Ontario Provincial Police moved in to end the blockade near Belleville, Ontario, but new blockades are continuing to sprout. This poll was in field ahead of that intervention.

Compared to an Ipsos/Global News poll released last week, Canadians are turning increasingly unfavourable towards the blockades, and becoming more supportive of police intervention to end them. Moreover, those who were previously unsure about the situation appear to be siding against the protests and in support of intervention.  More specifically:

    Six in ten (60%) are unfavourable (35% very/25% somewhat) towards the protests, up 11 points since last week, while 27% are favourable (11% very/17% somewhat), a decrease of 5 points. One in seven (13%) are unsure, down 7 points. Residents of Saskatchewan and Manitoba (71%) have the most unfavourable views, followed by those living in Alberta (63%), Quebec (60%), Atlantic Canada (59%) British Columbia (59%) and Ontario (57%).
    Nearly two in three (63%) support (35% strongly/28% somewhat) intervention by police to end the blockade of key transportation corridors by indigenous protestors, an increase of 10 points since last week. One quarter (26%) oppose (13% strongly/13% somewhat) the intervention by police to end blockades, down 2 points. Roughly one in ten (11%) are unsure, down 8 points. Support for intervention by police to end the blockades is strongest in Alberta (76%) and Saskatchewan and Manitoba (72%), followed by Atlantic Canada (65%), British Columbia (63%), Quebec (62%) and Ontario (58%) ....
More from Ipsos @ link
 
Those that stand to lose the most are the Wet’suwet’en and by extension, FN in general. The latte drinking, Range Rover driving, merino wool slipper wearing professional protester will go back to their McMansion secure in the belief that they singlehandedly saved the planet. Meanwhile the FN who desperately need these development opportunities will continue to suffer the ills of socioeconomic stagnation, substance abuse and suicide. Well done self-appointed pseudo-environmental neocolonialists.
 
CloudCover said:
Can dogs be used by police to end some of these? Sorry, they slipped off the leash ...

I think our usual response to these types of things will suffice: everyone will ignore it after all the hype dies down... in about a week.
 
CloudCover said:
Can dogs be used by police to end some of these? Sorry, they slipped off the leash ...

I'm not a lawyer. But, there might / or might not, be potential lawsuits against the taxpayers to consider,
( Depending on the circumstances, of course. )

What's a bite from an OPP police dog worth?
https://www.toronto.com/news-story/6498233-what-s-a-bite-from-an-opp-police-dog-worth-40-000/


daftandbarmy said:
I think our usual response to these types of things will suffice: everyone will ignore it after all the hype dies down... in about a week.

Except the lawyers, maybe. ( Depending on the circumstances, of course. )

 
milnews.ca said:
If one believes polls these days, public support seems to be slipping ....More from Ipsos @ link
And here we have the more ...  sunshine-y read of the same numbers ...
A new Ipsos poll has found that 39% of Canadians are supportive of the blockades of key transportation corridors in solidarity with Wet’suwet’en Nation. While some commentators have said this shows a lack of support for protestors, others have pointed out the blockades received a higher percentage of support than any federal party received in the past election ...
 
milnews.ca said:
And here we have the more ...  sunshine-y read of the same numbers ...

40/60 split is enough if following Queensbury rules.

But if you are playing by Lancashire rules (Lancashire wrestling is a historic wrestling style from Lancashire in England known for its "Catch-as-catch-can", or no wrestling holds barred, style)

Then

An RUC report of 1986 estimated that the IRA had 300 or so members in Active Service Units and up to 750 active members in total in Northern Ireland.[41] This does not take into consideration the IRA units in the Republic of Ireland or those in Great Britain, continental Europe, and throughout the world. In 2005, the then Irish Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Michael McDowell told the Dáil that the organisation had "between 1,000 and 1,500" active members.[203]

According to the book The Provisional IRA (by Eamon Mallie and Patrick Bishop), roughly 8,000 people passed through the ranks of the IRA in the first 20 years of its existence, many of them leaving after arrest, "retirement" or disillusionment.[204] In later years, the IRA's strength has been somewhat weakened by members leaving the organisation to join hardline splinter groups such as the Continuity IRA and the Real IRA. According to former Irish Minister for Justice Michael McDowell, these organisations have little more than 150 members each.[203]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army#Strength_and_support

Particularly true if, after 150 years you can count the number of each of the railways, highways, ports, pipelines, canals, powerlines on the figures of one hand.
 
Question - does the lighting of fires (with our without tires) on the main east-west train lines constitute as act of 'Terrorism' as defined under current Federal legislation?

Under the 2013 Via Rail Canada terrorism trial I bring forth the following: " a conspiracy to commit terrorist acts in and against Canada in the form of disruption, destruction or derailment of trains operated by Canada's national passenger railway service, Via Rail Canada."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Via_Rail_Canada_terrorism_plot

The part about 'in the form of disruption, destruction....of trains' - one could argue that the lighting of fires on the tracks is a form 'disruption, destruction....of trains'

Thoughts? 

It would certainly fan the flames across Canada, but I'm not certain how a ISIS supporter taking a few 50 litre containers of gas, pouring it over the CN rail lines WEST of Belleville and planting an ISIS flag is much different than a bunch of guys doing the same thing EAST of Belleville and planing a Mohawk Warrior flag.  The result is the exact same - the 'disruption, destruction....of trains'
 
Czech_pivo said:
Question - does the lighting of fires (with our without tires) on the main east-west train lines constitute as act of 'Terrorism' as defined under current Federal legislation?

Under the 2013 Via Rail Canada terrorism trial I bring forth the following: " a conspiracy to commit terrorist acts in and against Canada in the form of disruption, destruction or derailment of trains operated by Canada's national passenger railway service, Via Rail Canada." ...
Not a lawyer, but is the fire in question itself destroying or damaging track infrastructure?  That to me would be a clear case of "destruction" if that was happening.  "Derailment" sounds like it would be easy to see/prove, too.

"Disruption"?  Is the company cancelling a train because there's a fire next to the track a fire-precipitated disruption?  That I'll leave to legal beagles.
 
Czech_pivo said:
Question - does the lighting of fires (with our without tires) on the main east-west train lines constitute as act of 'Terrorism' as defined under current Federal legislation?

Under the 2013 Via Rail Canada terrorism trial I bring forth the following: " a conspiracy to commit terrorist acts in and against Canada in the form of disruption, destruction or derailment of trains operated by Canada's national passenger railway service, Via Rail Canada."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Via_Rail_Canada_terrorism_plot

The part about 'in the form of disruption, destruction....of trains' - one could argue that the lighting of fires on the tracks is a form 'disruption, destruction....of trains'

Thoughts? 

It would certainly fan the flames across Canada, but I'm not certain how a ISIS supporter taking a few 50 litre containers of gas, pouring it over the CN rail lines WEST of Belleville and planting an ISIS flag is much different than a bunch of guys doing the same thing EAST of Belleville and planing a Mohawk Warrior flag.  The result is the exact same - the 'disruption, destruction....of trains'

Not at all. Not even close. “Terrorism” has a very high threshold, and with good reason. Stunts like that are routine criminal mischief. There’s nothing inadequate about the laws covering such things. We don’t want to fall into the American trap of throwing the ‘Terrorism’ term around too willy nilly, lest it lose its significance.
 
Brihard said:
Not at all. Not even close. “Terrorism” has a very high threshold, and with good reason. Stunts like that are routine criminal mischief. There’s nothing inadequate about the laws covering such things. We don’t want to fall into the American trap of throwing the ‘Terrorism’ term around too willy nilly, lest it lose its significance.

Straight from the Government of Canada website -

"In Canada, section 83.01 of the Criminal Code[1] defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public "…with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act." Activities recognized as criminal within this context include death and bodily harm with the use of violence; endangering a person’s life; risks posed to the health and safety of the public; significant property damage; and interference or disruption of essential services, facilities or systems."

The italics I have added to highlight areas where this argument can be made.
 
milnews.ca said:
Not a lawyer, but is the fire in question itself destroying or damaging track infrastructure?  That to me would be a clear case of "destruction" if that was happening.  "Derailment" sounds like it would be easy to see/prove, too.

"Disruption"?  Is the company cancelling a train because there's a fire next to the track a fire-precipitated disruption?  That I'll leave to legal beagles.

I'll preface an answer as to track damage, with my experience. I have spent last two summers on work trains, working with engineering to maintain and build track. We also have quite regular fires up here intentional or not and fires that trains start themselves, either by using air brakes in the summer or from the weight creating friction on the ties.

Now depending on the track speed, location  etc they could be using concrete ties, if so fires have 0% chance of affecting anything. If they are wood ties, even if the fires burn for long enough to do damage, a 25 mph slow would mitigate all of it. Also if the fire is to the outside of rail the damage it does to the integrity of the rail is reduced. Fires to the outside of the rail take a lot longer to cause damage. Also since it is a known problem foreman are either riding trains or using highrails to inspect for damages I imagine.

A derailment risk does exist, sure. I just do not think it is realistic. We also ship hydrochloric acid, diesel, propane, butane and other interesting products.. so trying to cause a derailment and sticking around to watch is idiotic in my opinion. As far as charges go as well, certain interest groups are alway trying to burn rails in the summer and I have never seen charges being laid up here.. I suspect the railways will avoid it so that they remain a byproduct of the protests not the target.

Abdullah
 
AbdullahD said:
I'll preface an answer as to track damage, with my experience. I have spent last two summers on work trains, working with engineering to maintain and build track. We also have quite regular fires up here intentional or not and fires that trains start themselves, either by using air brakes in the summer or from the weight creating friction on the ties.

Now depending on the track speed, location  etc they could be using concrete ties, if so fires have 0% chance of affecting anything. If they are wood ties, even if the fires burn for long enough to do damage, a 25 mph slow would mitigate all of it. Also if the fire is to the outside of rail the damage it does to the integrity of the rail is reduced. Fires to the outside of the rail take a lot longer to cause damage. Also since it is a known problem foreman are either riding trains or using highrails to inspect for damages I imagine.

A derailment risk does exist, sure. I just do not think it is realistic. We also ship hydrochloric acid, diesel, propane, butane and other interesting products.. so trying to cause a derailment and sticking around to watch is idiotic in my opinion. As far as charges go as well, certain interest groups are alway trying to burn rails in the summer and I have never seen charges being laid up here.. I suspect the railways will avoid it so that they remain a byproduct of the protests not the target.

Abdullah

That's reassuring!

I'm also assuming that the train people will have a good look a the tracks before putting a train over them....
 
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