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Canada security council seat

We have no seat for now.
Some say it's a good thing and others say it isn't.
What would you say if you were the one asked to make the decision back in the day when Canada was offered the 5th permanent seat on the SC?
Also what is your reasoning behind your choice?
My choice would be to accept a seat in hopes that we could have a stronger voice in the UN

 
As far as I understand (Prime Minister) King's reasoning - and my understanding is, most likely, deeply flawed - he wanted, desperately, to withdraw from the very divisive issue of international affairs. National unity was a big problem in 1945 - the conscription crisis wounds were raw – and Québec was extraordinarily isolationist, far, far more than it is today.

The potential UNSC permanent seat would have committed Canada to the sort of active internationalism that Louis St Laurent enunciated, as Canada’s foreign policy, just two years later. But two years healed a lot of wounds and there was a vast gulf between St Laurent – then in his prime – and King, already ‘failing’ at the end of the war.

(In his last days in power King opposed St Laurent but to no avail. Prime Ministers were, then, much less powerful than they are today. King was primus inter pares but it was clear to all Liberals, and to King himself, that he was well past his best before date and that he would have to give way. It was equally clear that St Laurent could beat George Drew’s Conservatives and retain power for the Liberals while many other contenders might not. Thus, St Laurent was, pretty much, free to set and implement a coherent Canadian foreign policy, including e.g. NATO, which King opposed. But, despite their strong disagreement on foreign policy, King remained St Laurent’s biggest supporter. He appears to have trusted St Laurent’s judgement in all matters – even when he, King, disagreed.)

King was a tired, timid man, his decision – pretty much a split second decision,* I think – reflected the man, not Canada’s near and mid term interests.

Had we been on the UNSC, rather than France, I suspect that Security Council reform would have been a reality by the 1970s. It would have been abundantly clear, circa 1971, that Canada was not a great power, ditto Britain. The ‘change of Chinas’ that occurred in 1971 would, I guess, have resulted in a new, smaller, UNSC: three permanent, veto power, members: China, USA and USSR and two tiers of temporary members – a small number (also three?) of long term (five or ten year terms) members with veto powers and a larger number (eight or ten?) of short term (two years term) members without veto powers.

On the other hand, had we had a UNSC seat and given our socio-economic situation in the 1950s and 60s, we might have acted like a leader in the world – spending more on defence and foreign affairs, for example, and it might have been harder, maybe even too hard, for Trudeau to emasculate the country in 1969/70.

On balance, King and Trudeau reflected what most Canadians appear to believe: we are a small, even poor nation that doesn’t want to be ‘out front’ in the world. Looking back, St Laurent was a political aberration: a forward looking, outward looking, strategic leader who put Canada first. There were almost none like him in the past and none of his successors, up to and including Stephen Harper, have come anywhere near him in character, intellect or vision. Pity.

_________
Edit, to add:

It was a "split second decision," I think because, as I understand it, the offer was only "on the table" for a terribly brief period. It was a quick "take it or leave it" offer from the US and UK. I'm not sure if the offer came from Roosevelt and Churchill (possibly at or after the 2nd (1944) Québec  Conference) or from Truman and Atlee in 1945 but it appears, to me, that the offer was serious but fleeting.



Edit: typo
 
So in a way it might have pushed us to mature since we needed to grow into our SC shoes.
Could it be that the US and UK offered it as a courtesy and did not expect us to seriously accept?

I like your 2 tier idea.  :nod:
 
Chappie said:
Could it be that the US and UK offered it as a courtesy and did not expect us to seriously accept?

A "Courtesy", yes.  Not a courtesy in a derogatory way.

Canada was not the "Bit Player" that it is today in WW II.  We had the third largest Navy in the world, a quite credible Army, and the RCAF was a thousand times what our Air Element is today. 

[Edit to add]  Canada also had a more robust and professional Diplomatic Corps and Dept of Foreign Affairs.  Much of that professionalism has been lost today, with Bureaucrats more often being the norm rather than Diplomats.
 
Mr. Campbell, you give yourself far less credit than you deserve.  I think you've described the situation in 1945 very well.

regards
G2G
 
Gerry Nicholls:

FYI -- My take on Canada not getting a seat on the Security Council -- who cares?

Here's what I wrote on my blog:

Singing the UN Blues?

The United Nations recently gave our country a collective glove wash.

By now we all know the sad story: Canada wanted a seat on the “Security Council” but the UN passed us over, bestowing seats instead to Portugal and Germany.

Portugal and Germany?!

This clearly proves beyond any doubt that a country’s standing in the UN must be directly related to its soccer prowess.

I suppose that means if hockey were a more popular international sport, we’d be running the world.

At any rate, our humiliating UN loss stunned Canada’s political leaders, who reacted to the bad news the way our political leaders always react to bad news – they instantly blamed each other.

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff declared Canada lost out because international diplomats were punishing us for our “blatant anti-census agenda.”

“The horrifying image of those blank census forms is burned into the minds of all right-thinking Europeans” fumed Ignatieff. “To make things right, my MPs and I are willing to fill out all the forms ourselves and mail them to capitals of Europe.”

For his part, the Prime Minister took the high road: “I blame everyone but me for this diplomatic mess,” stated the Prime Minister. “But I especially blame Michael Ignatieff for reasons my speech writers will dream up later.”

Of course, regardless of who is to blame, our failure to win a seat at the Security Council table is the biggest blow to our national prestige since the McKenzie Brothers movie, Strange Brew, bombed at the box office.

In fact, when asked how this Security Council debacle will impact Canada’s international reputation, a leading American scholar, who specializes in the UN, replied, “What’s Canada?”

Even more importantly, our failure to gain a Security Council seat means Canada will not be voicing its opinions at the table when the United Nations performs its vital global functions.

What vital global functions?

Well, take the key role the UN plays in maintaining world peace.

Before the UN was invented, countries would invade each other at the drop of a hat.

Now countries have a chance to defend and debate their policies in the civilized and structured environment of the UN – then they invade each other at the drop of a hat.

And let’s not forget how UN helps to redistribute global wealth.

Every day the UN sucks millions of tax dollars out of countries like Canada and carefully funnels them into the pockets of corrupt UN bureaucrats.

And finally, the UN also gives “international statesman” a chance to shine in the global spotlight.

For instance, Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad often takes time off time from stoning people to death, so he can politely and reasonably explain to the UN why Israel must be wiped from the map.

In fact, many give Ahmadinejad credit for the UN General Assembly recently voting to name October 25 as “International Wipe Israel from the Map Day.”

Yes isn’t it a shame Canada isn’t playing a more important role in such a fine and useful organization as the UN?

Oh well, at least we can lick Portugal and Germany in hockey.

Gerry Nicholls
Political/Communications Consultant
Cell: 647-223-2617
Home: 905-849-5863
www.gerrynicholls.com
www.twitter.com/gerrynic
 
Good2Golf said:
Mr. Campbell, you give yourself far less credit than you deserve.  I think you've described the situation in 1945 very well.

regards
G2G

You answered a question that has bugged me for years: "Why did France get the UN seat and not Canada?"
 
Astounding cheerleading by the WSJ!

http://bcblue.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/wsj-on-un-vote-way-to-go-canada/

WSJ on UN vote: “Way to go Canada”
October 20, 2010 — BC Blue


The Wall Street Journal editorial takes a big shot at the Canadian newspapers’ reporting on the lost UN security seat vote:

Listen to the yowls in the papers north of the border: “A nation reeling,” “humiliating defeat,” “a rebuke from the global community,” “tarnishes our reputation,” “a slap in the face.”

Then, check out the endorsement of Stephen Harper:

“We say: Way to go. Canada seems to have annoyed a sufficient number of Third World dictators and liberally pious Westerners to come up short in a secret General Assembly ballot. The sins committed by Stephen Harper’s Conservative government include staunch support for Israel, skepticism about cap-and-trade global warming schemes, and long-standing commitment to the Afghan war. Americans would be so lucky to get a leader as steadfast on those issues as the Canadian Prime Minister.” (read here)
 
E.R. Campbell said:
The USA - because, if nothing else, of wealth and proximity - needs to be at the top of our priority list but it cannot, must not be our exclusive focus. I agree with two of Steele's points about the USA:

1. We need to 'erase the border' for trade and commerce and people; but, simultaneously

2. We need to enhance our political independence from the USA.

The latter means that we need to be more active in, especially, Asia.

While I agree that the US should not be our exclusive focus, and we need to project our influence in Asia, I fail to see how we can, nor why we should, enhance our political independence from our Southern neighbour. It seems quite obvious that we have our own agenda, and that for the most part our American cousins respect that. I think the most beneficial attitude we can display is that of a co-operative partner, but one with our own sphere of influence.

 
For the most part, Americans consider Canada just an extension of their own country....they don't know, nor pay attention to our differences ....
 
One way of looking at restructuring the UN Security Council
http://unambig.com/one-way-of-looking-at-restructuring-the-un-security-council/

...
And what about the NGA, eh?..

Mark
Ottawa
 
E.R. Campbell said:
.... Votes against Canada, which, really, are not votes for Portugal:

1. Almost all Middle Eastern, North African and West Asian countries; our policies towards Israel are a problem ....


Reviving the necro-thread with this tidbit from the National Post/Postmedia News - highlights mine:
.... Canadians should expect no thanks from the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference, the world’s biggest Islamic coalition, for already deploying a frigate and six fighter jets to help enforce the internationally authorized no-fly zone over Libya — and for announcing Thursday two maritime patrol planes will be added to the deployment.

A senior Islamic official said Muslims would be skeptical of Canada’s intentions, “if asked.”

“The first answer would not necessarily be that Canada is there to save civilian lives,” the official said, asking not to be identified in keeping with diplomatic protocol at the UN when giving “background” interviews. “Canada would be seen more as helping the Western alliance.”

Fine. So what would it take for OIC members to think more positively about Canada?

The official replied that Muslim countries would need to see Canada meet the “test” of decisively swinging toward supporting the Palestinian cause in key votes at the UN.

“Then we could reasonably say, ‘Well, these (Muslim) countries wanted Canada out, but, in fact, Canada could have been useful,’” the official said

Therein lies what will be confirmation for some about the real impulse behind the OIC’s rejection of Canada last October: It was all about Israel
....
 
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