Anti-terrorism squads raid Ottawa homes

[Bruce Monkhouse]

1. OK, I‘ll bite... so whats the cost little Pieman?
2. You happen to know MANY who have had thier phone tapped by CSIS. Produce it or shut up!
3.Where‘s the religous freedom? Go to a worship site of your choosing this morning or don‘t. Here is your freedom.Just remember a whole generation suffered to hand you that right. Stop degrading them by your pathetic twisting of logic.
4.And of course I‘m just wondering how high you are in the govt. to KNOW that they‘re not spying on christians. Produce it or shut up!
5. The people who whine about govt. spying are those who have the most to hide. What are YOU hiding little boy????
6.Slim,

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Bruce Monkhouse:
[qb] 2. You happen to know MANY who have had thier phone tapped by CSIS. Produce it or shut up! [/qb]

Bruce

...Thanks for mentioning that...I got so choked at him that I forgot to included that part!

Thanks for watching my back Brother!

Slim

 

[Pieman]

I figured this post would not be popular, but it seems some of you need to try to understand my position a little harder.

Slim, please try to be less emotional. Other people have different opinions than you. As for my profile, please note ‘Civilian‘ clearly marked under the picture.

If you expect anyone to shed tears on a few trampled civil liberties while the police and security services try to stop a bad group of people from blowing up our cities here in Canada you have another thing coming!

Where? I did not see any cities explode in Canada, did you? Did they really stop anything? Maybe they did, and if so good for them. However, you say ‘A few civil liberties‘, really? What is a ‘few‘ civil liberties? Shall we stop at taking people‘s right to having a private phone conversation, or shall we go right ahead and let the government arrest and imprison anyone they want. Not enough for you? How about torture? Why don‘t we let the government torture people if it feels that someone ‘may‘ be a threat.

This War, (and believe me I KNOW we are at war) is a war that can be fought WITHOUT compromising EVERYTHING our soldiers have fought for and lost their lives for! Our freedom of thought and expression. Are you so willing and prepared to let a few terrorists take that away from you?

Bruce, I will answer your questions, however, next time please poise your questions in a more mature fashion. There is no need to try to belittle someone simply because they have a different opinion than you. Respectful debate yields many positive results.

1. OK, I‘ll bite... so what's the cost little Pieman?

How about I listen in on your telephone conversations. Follow you and your family around; ask questions about you to neighbors. Dig through your garbage. Photograph you. Take your finger prints. Take DNA samples. And if you seem uncooperative I will arrest you and hold you in confinement without laying any charges. Then, YOU can tell me what the cost is.

2. You happen to know MANY who have had their phone tapped by CSIS. Produce it or shut up!

Do you really expect me to be able to ‘produce‘ proof of this on a message board? Sorry, but let‘s stick to reality. If you are really interested, come over to my friend's house and listen to the crappy phone tap CSIS has on there. Come to the local mosque and listen to the crappy phone tap CSIS has on there. Talk to the CSIS agents who come to my friends house and question him and his family. Not mention several other people I know going through the same kind of harassment.

3.Where‘s the religious freedom? Go to a worship site of your choosing this morning or don‘t. Here is your freedom. Just remember a whole generation suffered to hand you that right. Stop degrading them by your pathetic twisting of logic

That is the very right that is being taken away, which is my point! If I go to a Mosque, I know that I will be persecuted because of that. How is that not taking my right of religion away? That right is what my grandparents fought for, so do not speak to me about appreciating freedom! It is this very freedom that I am saying is in serious trouble in this country. The only twist in logic here is your misunderstanding of my point of view.

4.And of course I‘m just wondering how high you are in the govt. to KNOW that they‘re not spying on Christians. Produce it or shut up!

How many priests in your community have complained about their phones being tapped or people coming to their door and questioning them? Funny, because I see a lot Muslim religious leaders complaining about that. You don‘t need to be on any level of gov. too see there is not activity there.

5. The people who whine about govt. spying are those who have the most to hide. What are YOU hiding little boy????

I hide nothing. What am I afraid of? I am afraid that one day I am going to wake up to a country called Canada that no longer takes care of its citizens, but persecutes them for their opinions. I am afraid of losing all the values that we hold up high and what our troops have fought for, only to discover we threw them all away because of a few terrorists. Why are you so afraid to see things from another perspective? Why are you so eager to toss away these values?

 

[bossi]

Pieman,
Since you‘ve asked others to be more careful with their posts, I‘ll thank you to do the same.
I did not at any time "... say that they are undermining the investigation, ...". Rather, instead, I posed several questions. So, if it‘s all the same to you, I‘d prefer you didn‘t twist my words.

And, in my personal opinion, I feel that our law enforcement agencies are in a difficult position - none of the hi-jackers on September 11th were card-carrying members of the St Andrew‘s Society (for example) ... and North America is full of shrill libertarians only too ready to decry the actions of "the establishment".

I guess the best analogy is fishing - sometimes one must cast a wide net in order to catch something.

 

[Pieman]

bossi, you are correct.

I should have used the word ‘speculate‘ or something to that effect, rather than ‘say‘.
Either way, I did not mean to twist or take more meaning in your words than you intended.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Pieman:
[qb] . If you are really interested, come over to my friend's house and listen to the crappy phone tap CSIS has on there. Come to the local mosque and listen to the crappy phone tap CSIS has on there. Talk to the CSIS agents who come to my friends house and question him and his family. Not mention several other people I know going through the same kind of harassment. [/qb]

I have a hard time believing any of the above. And I‘ll tell you why.

In the intelligence community a "phone tap" is called " Technical surveillance". Contrary to popular belief you can‘t here anything on the line when someone taps your phone you won‘t know it. The government does it from a bell sub-station. there is nothing on your line to hear. They also need a warrent from a Judge to do it.

Stop pretending to be something you are not!

Conspirecy theories do nothing but feed paranoia and is dangerous!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Where is the religious freedom? You try going into a country in the middle east and praying to whomever. We may not be perfect but i think Canada is doing pretty good when it comes to respecting EVERYONS religion and herritage.

CSIS is taping peoples phones, thats not big news. The goverment has been listening to phone calls since world war 2 (Which stopped what was it, 40 thousand german immigrants in the states from marching on Toronto and Ottawa to keep canada out of the war?)


I‘m sure your friends aren‘t the only ones being spied on. Unfortinuatly their finding RPGs, C4 explosives and terrorist training manuals in islamic schools or mosques (can‘t remember which?)so they are obviousl going to put more man power and time into checking that out. Those few individuals whom are into that stuff are ruining it for the rest of the community, don‘t blame the police for doing their job guy.

It‘s not that the police are ignoring "white" crime and going after whoever. If you are trying to say that than your just as bad as the biased media only reporting one side of the story.

 

[Pieman]

In the intelligence community a "phone tap" is called " Technical surveillance". Contrary to popular belief you can‘t here anything on the line when someone taps your phone you won‘t know it. The government does it from a bell sub-station. there is nothing on your line to hear. They also need a warrent from a Judge to do it.

Believe what you wish. The phone is tapped or being has ‘Technical surveillance‘ being used. It is clear their technology uses a speech recognition program as you hear a slight ‘click‘ and the volume is decreased when key words are spoken. i.e. dates, times, etc. This is pretty high class equipment, but it is not invisible or undetectable. Either way, I cannot prove or support this any further on a bulletin board.

Where is the religious freedom? You try going into a country in the middle east and praying to whomever. We may not be perfect but i think Canada is doing pretty good when it comes to respecting EVERYONS religion and herritage.

This is my point; they are NOT respecting people‘s religious freedoms anymore by targeting people because of their religion. I am saying they degrade Canadian values by using these methods to locate terrorists. Someone mentioned the need to cast a wide net in a difficult situation. Does this net really have to interfere with and degrade our values at a fundamental level? There are other methods for this madness.

 

[Pieman]

Unfortinuatly their finding RPGs, C4 explosives and terrorist training manuals in islamic schools or mosques (can‘t remember which?)so they are obviousl going to put more man power and time into checking that out. Those few individuals whom are into that stuff are ruining it for the rest of the community, don‘t blame the police for doing their job guy.

Please show me where police did find terrorist manuals, RPGs, and C4 explosives in islamic schools or mosques. I am unware of one single case of that happening in Canada. IF you cannot show me, please do not make things up to support your claim.

 

[girlfiredup]

Did anyone catch the write up on the citizen this morning? I thought what Khawaja‘s brother had to say was amusing.. "All they had to do was ask. They didn‘t have to kick the door down."

As I write this, there are 6 raids happening right now simultaneously throughout the Nations Capital. Also, at 2:30 pm est, a news conference is being held with security officials from Ottawa, Toronto, and Washington.

Tomorrow‘s headlines should be interesting.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I‘m too lazy to show you to be quite honest and im not trying to prove anything. It was either in the news paper or on the news. Police raided some kind of islamic school or something and found RPG,s C4 and some other things. Someone else on here is bound to have heard about it.

I don‘t see it as the canadian police targeting muslims. I see it as the canadian police got information about someone that just happened to be muslim or islamic, whatever, and acted on it. As per normal, people throw up the race/religion card. It‘s one thing if they dont find something, thats harassment. But they ARE finding stuff.

This has nothing to do with respecting a certian religion. Criminals are criminals whatever race or religion they are.

 

[girlfiredup]

RCMP NEWS RELEASE

RCMP lays charges under Sections 83.18 and 83.19 of the Criminal Code

OTTAWA - March 30, 2004 - On March 29, 2004, members of the RCMP executed search warrants at two locations in Ottawa. These warrants were obtained lawfully and judicially after a careful review of the supporting affidavit material. The search warrants were for the residence and workplace of Mr. Mohammad Momin Khawaja of Ottawa.

Today, Mr. Khawaja, a 29-year-old Canadian born citizen, has been charged pursuant to sections 83.18 and 83.19 of the Criminal Code of Canada. These sections, introduced as part of the Anti-Terrorism Act on December 24, 2001, make it an offence to knowingly participate in or contribute to the activities of a terrorist group and to knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity.

In the interest of accuracy the charges are as follows:

That Mr. Khawaja did:

1) On or between November 10, 2003 and March 29, 2004, at or near the City of Ottawa, in the Province of Ontario and at or near the City of London, England, did knowingly participate in or contribute to, directly or indirectly, an activity of a terrorist group, for the purpose of enhancing the ability of a terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity, as defined in section 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code, thus committing an indictable offence, contrary to section 83.18 of the Criminal Code.

2) On or between November 10, 2003 and March 29, 2004, at or near the City of Ottawa, in the Province of Ontario and at or near the City of London, England, did knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity, as defined in section 83.01 (1) of the Criminal Code, thus committing an indictable offence, contrary to section 83.19 of the Criminal Code.

Mr. Khawaja appeared in court today at 1:30 p.m. in Ottawa at which time he was remanded in custody until Friday, April 2, 2004 at 1:30 p.m. A publication ban on the proceedings was granted by the court.

This investigation has resulted in much interest and speculation. Certain details about the arrest and searches conducted yesterday can be provided notwithstanding the publication ban:

At approximately 1:30 p.m. on March 29th RCMP members arrested Mr. Khawaja at his work place and conducted a search.


A search warrant was also executed at Mr. Khawaja‘s residence at 672 Princess Louise Drive, Ottawa. The RCMP Emergency Response Team entered and secured the residence. To ensure the integrity of the scene, two of the occupants who were home at the time were removed from the residence. The preventive arrest provisions of the Anti-Terrorism Act were not used. The occupants were not arrested.


The RCMP worked closely with the Ottawa Police Service in ensuring the safety and security of police personnel, residents and the public in the immediate area of the search. The search was concluded at approximately 1:30 Tuesday morning March 30th.


The RCMP would like to assure Canadians that it is working closely with all its partners to ensure public safety and security. The RCMP‘s primary objective is safe homes and safe communities for all Canadians. The RCMP has an obligation to investigate all possible leads and information pertaining to criminal activity or potential threats.
The Ottawa Muslim community has raised concerns about this investigation. The RCMP acknowledges these concerns and wishes to assure Ottawa‘s Muslim community that it practices bias-free policing. The RCMP has a zero tolerance policy towards racial profiling and racially biased policing. Neither is consistent with our core values. The RCMP does not target individuals or groups based on their racial, cultural or religious backgrounds.

The actions taken yesterday were directed at criminal activity with respect to national security.

The RCMP acknowledges that members of the Muslim community are law abiding citizens. The RCMP will continue to meet with community leaders and other representatives to address any concerns they may have.

As this matter is now before the courts, it would not be appropriate to provide any further details at this time. This is a complex investigation. The RCMP wishes to thank the media and the public for their patience and understanding. The RCMP is committed to updating the media and the public with further information when it is possible.

 

[clasper]

Originally posted by Ghost778:
[qb] I‘m too lazy to show you to be quite honest[/qb]

Well your credibility just took a big hit.

Originally posted by Bruce Monkhouse:
[qb] Produce it or shut up![/qb]

 

[clasper]

Originally posted by Pieman:
[qb]Believe what you wish. The phone is tapped or being has ‘Technical surveillance‘ being used. It is clear their technology uses a speech recognition program as you hear a slight ‘click‘ and the volume is decreased when key words are spoken. i.e. dates, times, etc. This is pretty high class equipment, but it is not invisible or undetectable. Either way, I cannot prove or support this any further on a bulletin board.
[/qb]

So your voice is being recorded and fed into a software package, and then when the software recognizes a key word, you hear a click as it records the data? That just doesn‘t make sense. Why would the software click at you?

I‘m not saying the phone line you describe isn‘t bugged, but if CSIS was listening in, you wouldn‘t be able to tell from the sounds you hear through the receiver. If some vigilante wingnut tried to bug the line, who knows what clicks and chirps you might hear, but the professionals are a little more sophisticated.

 

[Jarnhamar]

****. Do you think maybe in the future if i try hard i can gain some of that credibility back? Because i‘m gonna lose somesleep over this

Just because you guys are making a big deal about it i checked through the papers from last week (Standard freeholder out of cornwall) but my wife threw em out.
Guess i‘m a liar. Or just couldnt care to prove something to someone talking about government plots and wiretaps..

Pieman tell your friend to wear a tinfoil hat when talking on the phone, it‘s sure to stop any type of bug and/or brainwave recording software they have.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I just heard about an organized crime bust around North America. News conference to follow, I hope they‘re not white christians cause I‘m not sure Tartboy could handle the shock of it. CHEERS

 

[scm77]

 

[buglog1]

I am with Slim on the RCM Police and their capablity / role pre- and post-JTF2‘s inception. At a bureaucratic level, I think a perception that the ERT team was ‘slow on the draw‘ did exist. The believe was that because they were there - in a nutshell - to serve and protect, they may hesitate when it was time to boogie. I am fairly comfortable saying that this was simply not the case. The members that made it onto ERT were some very hard people - and they were drawn from the member pool - a pool that is not unlike the one that exists today. To suggest that because JTF2 took ownership and a much broader mandate from the bureaucratically beleaguered ERT, the RCM Police does not maintain a highly capable tactical team PARTICULARLY in the NCR is a little bit silly. Don‘t ya think?

PE

 

[Pieman]

Whoever hacked into my profile, I have reported you to the owner of this sight.

I never have seen a more immature and disrespectful group of people.

You cannot stand that somone has a different opinion than you, so you act like kids.

Perhaps we could meet at the bike racks at recess and settle this. But then again, you Moms might be angry if you came home from kindergarden late.

 

[Infanteer]

Welcome to Army.ca.

I was the one who changed your profile. As a moderator it is fully within my abilities to do so. Consider it a subtle message that the avatar you are displaying sends the message that you are a soldier. You obviously are not, and this aggrevates some of the senior members of this board. If you want, I can choose an avatar for you.

As for the "immature and disrespectful" group of people here, most of them have contributed a significant portion of there lives securing this country and dealing first hand with the situation you see here. Their opinions have been formed through blood, sweat, and tears. Trust me, there is more to the world then the hallowed halls of the University of Calgary. If you don‘t like the opinions of the soldiers at ARMY.CA, the door is always open. I‘m sure the forums of Libertarian.ca or the Canadian Human Rights Commission would love to hear your thoughts.

Bottom line: If you‘re going to post something, post it. If you‘re going to whine, leave.

Cheers,

The Staff