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Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter the patriot
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Scoobydude said:
Yet there are a lot of indo-canadians in cadets who have no interest in joining the CF even though cadets gave them so many opportunities.

Both organizations are completely different beats. One has little to no obligations and very little in the way of disruptions to normal life. It is not hard to understand why one appeals to people and the other does not.
 
I was filling out the army application sheet, and It asked me if I'm a visible minority. I can understand if they asked me which race I am, but it asked if I was Caucasian or a minority. What's up with that?
 
CADPAT15 said:
I was filling out the army application sheet, and It asked me if I'm a visible minority. I can understand if they asked me which race I am, but it asked if I was Caucasian or a minority. What's up with that?

This discussion may help explain.

Recruiting >  Diversity in recruitment 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106927.0
 
I am truly sorry. I'm extremely disgusted by the viewpoints this article presents, and I would not give it more publicity by posting it on this site, if it were not for some very important reasons. First let me say being a resident of British Columbia and from a mostly immigrant community, our perception of the Canadian Military was that of a mostly white organization which was similar, if not the same as the American Military, especially in terms of its recruiting methods. When going through the educational system from elementary to high school (I only graduated last year), those stereotypes still held true. The CAF was seen as respectable through out our past (WW1, WW2, Peacekeeping), but never seen as a profession worth pursuing in the present.

Yet disturbing as it may sound I believe that our teachers along with civilian ignorance played a part in reinforcing the negative aspects associated with the Military. For those who don’t know the BCTF is an acronym for the British Columbia Teachers Federation. The Union which negotiates the pay and rights for teachers across B.C, and of course being a Teachers Union they have a direct influence over the children of BC. Though this article is the individual opinion of Marianne Neill, I as a recent high school graduate feel it is reflective of the opinion's of most teachers within the BCTF. So as I graduated, I looked back on high school and tried to understand why the military was not seen as much as an option as it should have been? Why there was only a single recruitment poster in the career center, which I did not realize was a recruitment poster until I walked into the recruiter’s office at the regiment I wish to join? And why such misinformation was allowed to be spread without any one to stopping it?

Marianne Neil, President of the Burnaby teachers' Association
http://www.bctf.ca/publications/NewsmagArticle.aspx?id=21006

Military recruitment and racism

By Marianne Neill

When I was in my early 20s, two of my brothers joined the reserves because they couldn’t find another summer job. In late August, when they returned, I was sitting on the front porch at my parents’ home, listening to one of them tell me about his summer. With the crickets chirping, and maple trees rustling above us, he told me a story that shattered my understanding of what it meant to be Canadian. My brother told me that during bayonet training, the sergeant had advised recruits to imagine there was a “____ big ugly gook” standing in front of them, and they were to “lunge and thrust” with their guns. For reservists, this had been only the beginning of a lesson in desensitization and dehumanization that crossed boundaries of decency in multiple ways.

Not all recruits have such sordid tales to tell. However, this story is a fragment in a culture of militarism that enables systemic racism in many different ways. Teachers must sensitize themselves to this if they are to pass on critical awareness to their students, and give them a fair chance to make informed choices about their lives.

My conversation with my brother took place during the years when the Canadian military was ostensibly a peacekeeping force. It is true that during the years when the military was publicly identifying with the peacekeeping role, there were missions that called that role into question. There have been questions about Canada’s role in the removal of Aristide from power in Haiti, and we are all well aware of atrocities committed by individual troops in Somalia. Nevertheless, the dissonance between public image and actualization during that time, gave our citizenry a platform for objection when our military strayed from the role we understood them to have.

Since 2002, the Canadian military has gradually transformed its public image from peacekeeping to war-fighting. The public has been non-reactive, largely because of the stealth with which the transformation was effected: an incremental, carefully planned public relations campaign that has shown us images of Canadian soldiers breaking down doors, and creeping through streets with guns, as well as rescuing women and children from vague disasters.

A war-fighting military is more reinforcing of systemic racism than a peacekeeping one. Peacekeepers help develop agency, autonomy, solidarity, and advocacy (the BCTF social justice lens) in the countries they contact. Though perhaps not always in reality, their role is conceived as antiracist. In contrast, war-fighters, even while protecting one group or population, seek to conquer another. Unlike police, soldiers do not discern between one individual and another, and are not constrained by a criminal justice system. Their job is to attack a group that has been identified as the enemy. Most often in wars, the enemy is a racially and/or culturally identifiable group. The aggressive and defensive nature of war-fighting, and its identification of the enemy on the basis of group membership, means the individuals who participate in it are going to be susceptible to racism. My brother’s story exemplifies this.

Clearly, I am not saying that all members of the military are racist. I am saying that the act of war-fighting is inherently racist. Fear and desensitization make individuals vulnerable to racism when they are in a war-fighting situation. This experience can stay with them in subtle ways after the crisis is over. A boundary once crossed is more easily crossed again.

In the last six years, since the Canadian military has begun to transform its public role, and has been structurally integrated with the American military in new ways, we have seen more soldiers come home in coffins than we had in 50 years of peacekeeping. Recruiting efforts have stepped up, and money has been spent on a massive advertising campaign to attract youth. Promises of free education, travel, and adventure, appeal especially to disadvantaged youth. Military leaflets offer the army as a way to fight boredom.

Recruiting campaigns target vulnerable groups. As such, they exploit inequities, including racism. Ads directed at Aboriginal youth are insidious in exploiting psychological needs. They promise the life of a warrior, manipulatively integrating military and Aboriginal iconography. Reserves and the Bold Eagle program for Aboriginal youth pay more than students could get for flipping burgers all summer. The Atlantic provinces produce more recruits because they are economically disadvantaged. Recruiting drives are more aggressive there. General Rick Hillier, who was Commander-in-Chief until 2007, openly advocated targeting immigrant populations for recruitment.

In a just society, youth would not be drawn to the military just because they have no other opportunity to have an education. There is a reason that disadvantaged groups are targeted by recruiters. It may have something to do with all the information recruiters don’t share with recruits, such as:

    Military charges against Canadian forces members have risen as much as 62% since Canada started sending troops to Afghanistan. Absent without leave charges were the most frequent.
    The suicide rate among Canadian soldiers doubled from 2006 to 2007, and was triple that of the general population.
    Canada does not reveal the number of soldiers wounded so badly that they have to return home for treatment. However, during the first eight months of 2007, 108 members of the CF were eligible for an allowance given to people in this category.
    Finally, they do not mention the controversy over war as a solution, or the moral disturbance inherent in war-fighting. In a letter to the Toronto Star on October 9, 2008, Corporal Paul Demetrick wrote: “We respond to hostile fire by indiscriminate bombings and shelling of villages, killing innocent men, women, and children; we fire white phosphorous shells into vineyards… we hand over prisoners of war to Afghan authorities, who torture them; and we shoot and kill a two-year-old Afghan boy and his four-year-old sister… How can we inspire the Afghan people to respect liberty, democracy, equality for women, education for children, human rights, and respect for life when we are maiming and murdering them and destroying their homes, communities and the economy, and their country…?” War-fighting creates disturbance in the emotions of healthy people.

Economically disadvantaged youth are more willing to hear the promises and appreciate the opportunities offered by a military career, while ignoring negative messages. This is why they are targeted for recruitment, and why recruiters don’t bother wasting too much time trying to recruit the wealthy.

The injustice in recruiting to the military is effectively summarized in the concept of an economic draft. If you underfund universities and colleges, fail to support Aboriginal, immigrant, and refugee populations, and fail to guarantee a living wage, there is no need for conscription.

In this country, we like to believe we are a just society. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that enshrines equality rights. Yet, we do have systemic racism, and the nature of our military and its recruiting processes are one expression of it.

Marianne Neill is president of the Burnaby Teachers’ Association.

I will end my rant now but not without highlighting the last, most untrue and disgusting part of this article.

"Economically disadvantaged youth are more willing to hear the promises and appreciate the opportunities offered by a military career, while ignoring negative messages. This is why they are targeted for recruitment, and why recruiters don’t bother wasting too much time trying to recruit the wealthy.

The injustice in recruiting to the military is effectively summarized in the concept of an economic draft. If you underfund universities and colleges, fail to support Aboriginal, immigrant, and refugee populations, and fail to guarantee a living wage, there is no need for conscription.

In this country, we like to believe we are a just society. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that enshrines equality rights. Yet, we do have systemic racism, and the nature of our military and its recruiting processes are one expression of it.”
 
It seems you are a little upset that someone is calling into question the honour and integrity of an organization that you hold in very high esteem.  Take a step back and this about what I am saying below for a second:

Just one woman's opinion, at the end of the day I wouldn't read into it too much.  The thing with people like this is you are wasting your time if you think you are going to change the opinion she has of the military, even if it is an ignorant one.  Better to just ignore her rather then read her articles and fuel the fire so to speak.

Over the past month I have been in Ottawa a few times.  Multiple times now, I have been at the Delta Ottawa and have been approached by the same man while I was in uniform and given a mouthful of "how despicable I am for wearing the uniform, how I am just a baby-killer, etc, etc..."  The first time he confronted me I just ignored him, the second time I lost my cool and gave it back to him with a "piss off!  Get out of my face!" along with a few other choice words for him. 

I did get pretty mad the second time but looking back on it I probably shouldn't have.  I did see him again just last week but now instead of reacting to his rants I am as nice to him as possible which really irritates him  ;D

My point is, not everyone is going to have a high opinion of what you do in the military and for those that don't their isn't a whole lot you can do to change it.  Better to just laugh about it and not give a rats ass because it isn't a popularity contest.

 
RoyalDrew said:
It seems you are a little upset that someone is calling into question the honour and integrity of an organization that you hold in very high esteem.  Take a step back and this about what I am saying below for a second:

Just one woman's opinion, at the end of the day I wouldn't read into it too much.  The thing with people like this is you are wasting your time if you think you are going to change the opinion she has of the military, even if it is an ignorant one.  Better to just ignore her rather then read her articles and fuel the fire so to speak.

Over the past month I have been in Ottawa a few times.  Multiple times now, I have been at the Delta Ottawa and have been approached by the same man while I was in uniform and given a mouthful of "how despicable I am for wearing the uniform, how I am just a baby-killer, etc, etc..."  The first time he confronted me I just ignored him, the second time I lost my cool and gave it back to him with a "piss off!  Get out of my face!" along with a few other choice words for him. 

I did get pretty mad the second time but looking back on it I probably shouldn't have.  I did see him again just last week but now instead of reacting to his rants I am as nice to him as possible which really irritates him  ;D

My point is, not everyone is going to have a high opinion of what you do in the military and for those that don't their isn't a whole lot you can do to change it.  Better to just laugh about it and not give a rats ass because it isn't a popularity contest.

Your correct, I'm a little steamed after reading something like that  >:(. But I guess if you think about it for every one person against the CAF, there are a hundred people who love and respect our Military. Its just, the person writing this isn't some troll, it's somebody who has direct influence over our children. Somebody who could easily persuade a young man/women who wishes to be in the military to turn against it. Someone who is spreading misinformation to the people most likely to trust and believe her. Your right though, in the end we serve to defend defend free speech, even if it's from people like her  ;D. Thanks and ill try to keep my head on Captain.  :salute:
 
Ms Neil is an archetypal representative of a subset of all Western societies ~ she is, most likely, a silk stocking socialist if not an avowed Marxist, a rabid anti-American and one of those who expresses dismay at China's shift from Maoism to capitalism. Trust me, Emilio, we can find her like in Calgary, Toronto, and Halifax and in Boston, Dallas, London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, Singapore and Auckland, too. We can also find her polar opposites ~ equally ill informed and equally prejudiced ~ at the other end of the socio-political spectrum, and in all the same places, and and they are equally unpleasant.

Remember the old adage about sheep, wolves and sheepdogs* ... we're the sheepdogs, she's one of the sheep. We defend her and her ideas just as we defend everyone else.

____
* See e.g. this, and, if you're really interested in the analogy borrow LTC (Ret's) Grossman's book, On Combat, from your public library.
 
Ms Neil seems to have formed much of her opinion based on her brothers' brief experiences with one aspect of their training - not really a good basis upon which to form an opinion about a rather large and complex organization.  Although she raises a number of issues of merit, there are a few flaws in her reasoning:

1)  That the CF is targeting immigrant and aboriginal groups because they are economically disadvantaged and. therefore, easier to persuade.  Nonsense.  Current advertising is targeted at certain groups because we recognize that the CF population does not reflect the Canadian demographic.  Our recruiting efforts target non-traditional groups because we're trying not to be seen as an exclusively young white male enclave.

2) The the CF has moved from a predominantly peacekeeping to a warfighting force.  Nonsense.  The CF has always striven to be a balance multi-capable force.  Peacekeeping is an operation (one of many) not an occupation or vocation all on its own.  We carry out peacekeeping missions, but it is not (and never has been) our sole raison d'etre.  In fact, peacekeeping operations can only be properly conducted and are generally only successful when conducted by well-equipped, professional armed forces (who, coincidentally, are also well-situated to conduct warfighting missions).

3) That it is immoral to advertise only the positive sides of a career or vocation and not talk about the negative.  What field of endeavour ever recruits by telling prospective candidates about the bad parts?  Does the Plumbers Union talk about being showered in $hit from time to time when encouraging folks to become plumbers?  Does the Teachers Union talk about disrespectful students and uncooperative parents in their advertising for new teachers (or do they just concentrate on how they're "helping" to make a better community)?

Having said all this, I don't think any of us would ever be able to change Ms Neil's twisted views.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Ms Neil is an archetypal representative of a subset of all Western societies ~ she is, most likely, a silk stocking socialist if not an avowed Marxist, a rabid anti-American and one of those who expresses dismay at China's shift from Maoism to capitalism. Trust me, Emilio, we can find her like in Calgary, Toronto, and Halifax and in Boston, Dallas, London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, Singapore and Auckland, too. We can also find her polar opposites ~ equally ill informed and equally prejudiced ~ at the other end of the socio-political spectrum, and in all the same places, and and they are equally unpleasant.

Remember the old adage about sheep, wolves and sheepdogs* ... we're the sheepdogs, she's one of the sheep. We defend her and her ideas just as we defend everyone else.

____
* See e.g. this, and, if you're really interested in the analogy borrow LTC (Ret's) Grossman's book, On Combat, from your public library.

Thank you Sir, that link is exactly what I needed.
 
Another few years and any Caucasian living in Vancouver can truthfully check the "visible minority" box.  :)
 
In Ms Neil's article she states

The suicide rate among Canadian soldiers doubled from 2006 to 2007, and was triple that of the general population.

I thought that the suicide rate of Canadian soldiers was still below the national average?  Of course the article is also almost 4 years old.
 
ObedientiaZelum said:
In Ms Neil's article she states

I thought that the suicide rate of Canadian soldiers was still below the national average?  Of course the article is also almost 4 years old.

I wouldn't take anything Ms.Neil wrote in this article on much merit.
 
Emilio said:
I wouldn't take anything Ms.Neil wrote in this article on much merit.
Why? Because she has a different opinion than you?

Grow up and drop your sense of entitlement. The last thing the CAF need is another whiny self-victimizing little twerp who thinks everything is owed to him and every one needs to agree with him just because he's a private in the reserves.
 
john10 said:
Why? Because she has a different opinion than you?

Grow up and drop your sense of entitlement. The last thing the CAF need is another whiny self-victimizing little twerp who thinks everything is owed to him and every one needs to agree with him just because he's a private in the reserves.

Since posting this article I came to my senses, and realized the views Ms.Neil shares are held by a very small minority of people.

But I saw something wrong written by a person of influence, so I exposed it to others, I stand by that.

I'm gonna turn the other cheek, and not insult you back, someone of your age should be above attacking an 18 year old.

And read my profile I'm not a private in the reserves. I'm not even enrolled, I'm a civilian at the moment and can say whatever the hell I like.

I am not bound the the Code of Service Discipline.

But I still choose to follow it (for the most part), even while being a civilian.

At the moment I'm only bound by the rules of this site. If one day the CAF tells me to halt the sharing of my opinion, I will gladly do so.

But until then do not tell me what I can and cannot do, because I will still do it.
 
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