srhodes said:
I'm no expert, but here: AF Trg assigns streams after BMOQ. Based on which you are loaded on one of three courses in Cornwall. Any other info (presumably from CFRC) was incorrect.
As an anglo going AEC you don't need french until Major. Since you may never get there, why spend the $$$? That is the thinking. Yes it is a bit long, but currently nothing compared to some other trades i.e. int 2-3 yrs and pilot 3-4 yrs. During that time you will do meaningless tasks and OJE...
OJE is NOT like residency. Military is not like law or medicine. Where do you get that idea from???
OJE means observing squadron life, the job, practicing some skills so you have better chances at passing the course and then are functional earlier when you get to your unit. It's also about killing time b/w courses. What else do you suggest? E.I.?
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The first day I showed up at my base, my Captain asked me what stream I wanted to go. I said Weapons, and at the end of the day he said, alright you got Weapons, and you're probably going to course next January. Now since Im at a base that doesnt do Weapons, I am doing Electronic Wafare, a couple OPME's and DL courses till I leave. There are 4 guys here waiting to go Weapons. We spend our days studying, and waiting.
I was well aware of this websites existence, and i thank you for sending a link to it. Kind of pretentious of you though to accuse me of not using the search function when you can't even back up your accusations with a solid link that actually explains my question, and well you can read everything on that link and it still fails to explain my question. Furthermore, your link was not even a topic on this forum! For future reference, it would be nice of you to avoid accusations of not using the search function, when you cant even back up the question a person may have with previous information from the forum, no need for you to be "that guy".
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The training path for an ac op is as such - your first phase includes entry level training in both weapons and traffic. From that course, conducted over a 3-4 month period at CFSACO, you will be posted into either side, to an appropriate base. (ie: Weapons - North Bay/Traffic - Trenton, Comox, Moose Jaw etc). For someone who is posted into a Terminal Data position, the next step *might* be the PAR Controller course, or for the Tower Data person, the Ground Controller course. It all depends on where you are and what the Career Mgr has planned.
Not too sure about what happens next for a Weapons person, as I am not that familiar with that side of the trade.
I am unsure of the difference to which you asking about, but that is how it is done once you are thru basic and posted to a base awaiting your first phase of training.
By all means, anyone is welcome to jump in and correct me.
Not too sure about what happens next for a Weapons person, as I am not that familiar with that side of the trade.
I am unsure of the difference to which you asking about, but that is how it is done once you are thru basic and posted to a base awaiting your first phase of training.
By all means, anyone is welcome to jump in and correct me.
My apology's timbit if moe is correct. Thanks for the good response, seems there is so much variety in this trade. I have been in the infantry for nearly 8 years, and finally got my offer to start course on july 14th. Already have the precourse material memorized, and im now going through the VFR, IFR notes, although i think its for the AES course? I was hoping to go to the air defense side of the trade, but my wife is a traffic tech, and we want to be posted together. Judging by the notes i have studies, it appears the air traffic side offers a much broader spectrum of postings. What is the course difficulty like. I have people telling me that it has an 80% failure rate, and i have ppl telling me that they drank every night, and didnt open a book and made it through no problem.
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Well - No matter what you hear - if you give it your full effort - there should be no reason not to pass. I know there are a few ex-infantry guys on the AC op course right now doing just fine, balancing down time with crunch time. At the end of the day, it's your career course, or second career course, at any rate, so you will have to decide how important it is to you. CFSACO is a very welcoming environment to take a course in, but it is also very easy to fall back into bad habits. Trust me! Personal experience! lol.
In terms of which stream you want, I'm not sure you get much choice. A friend of mine just checked out as a Terminal Data Ac op here in Trenton, and was fortunate to get the stream and posting he wanted. Even for us Officers now, choice is potentially limited, depending upon time and scheduling constraints. You may not get weapons at first - but it may be possible to switch later.
I will be returning to the IFR course in August, so perhaps I will see you there - we chat over a pint in the Jet Set.
SSS
In terms of which stream you want, I'm not sure you get much choice. A friend of mine just checked out as a Terminal Data Ac op here in Trenton, and was fortunate to get the stream and posting he wanted. Even for us Officers now, choice is potentially limited, depending upon time and scheduling constraints. You may not get weapons at first - but it may be possible to switch later.
I will be returning to the IFR course in August, so perhaps I will see you there - we chat over a pint in the Jet Set.
SSS
No, i didnt. I printed all the notes for the IFR, VFR portion. I think its intended for the officers course, but still an interesting read, ill check out the weapons portion tom. Trying to learn as much as i can about the trade before i start OJT in a couple of weeks. Dont want to waste anyones time by knowing nothing once ojt starts. As much pride as i have wearing the RCR capbadge, it will be really nice to start wearing blues even if ill go back to wearing the cornflake. Is there any ac ops here that can refer me to some material i can study before going on course? Already have the precourse package memorized, have the weather manual, and reading over the IFR, VFR, and the 13 wing sabre routine orders. As of now though, most of the QL5 notes are still chinese to me.
Thank you for the replies.
In regards to the french, doesn’t knowing how to speak the 2nd official language indeed help you in attaining the rank of Major? Just been hearing different stuff in regards to 2nd language training for CF officers (some getting to it very early on and others later). I think it’s a safe bet to assume that newly minted francophone officers get the english course right away, so why wouldn’t anglo officers get the same courtesy for the french training considering that 2nd language fluency is an important factor that does help get you promoted to senior level positions in what is a designated bilingual institution.
Yes, military is different, but the point I was trying to make in regards to the medicine/law thing is that I’ve never heard of getting ‘on-the-job’ training without first receiving some foundational instruction related to the specific job FIRST. Listen, certainly better than EI as you suggested, but just seemed strange to me. That’s all. And a bit discouraging to think that it could be 2 years before you even begin to start training/learning about what sparked your interest in the CF to begin with.
Thank you….
In regards to the french, doesn’t knowing how to speak the 2nd official language indeed help you in attaining the rank of Major? Just been hearing different stuff in regards to 2nd language training for CF officers (some getting to it very early on and others later). I think it’s a safe bet to assume that newly minted francophone officers get the english course right away, so why wouldn’t anglo officers get the same courtesy for the french training considering that 2nd language fluency is an important factor that does help get you promoted to senior level positions in what is a designated bilingual institution.
Yes, military is different, but the point I was trying to make in regards to the medicine/law thing is that I’ve never heard of getting ‘on-the-job’ training without first receiving some foundational instruction related to the specific job FIRST. Listen, certainly better than EI as you suggested, but just seemed strange to me. That’s all. And a bit discouraging to think that it could be 2 years before you even begin to start training/learning about what sparked your interest in the CF to begin with.
Thank you….
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Hey everyone! I finally got my CT into the AC OP trade, and should be starting my 3's in about a month! can't wait..
I had one small question (and i've read all of the threads about AC OP, but I may have missed the answer) I wanted to know: for the PAR side of the trade, are people selected at random, on a volunteer basis, or based on operational requirements at the time? I realize I probably have a few years before I actually go on my 5's, but some information would be helpful...
tThanks for all the info that's been put on the site already.. I can't wait to actually start to work!!
I had one small question (and i've read all of the threads about AC OP, but I may have missed the answer) I wanted to know: for the PAR side of the trade, are people selected at random, on a volunteer basis, or based on operational requirements at the time? I realize I probably have a few years before I actually go on my 5's, but some information would be helpful...
tThanks for all the info that's been put on the site already.. I can't wait to actually start to work!!
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@srhodes
You are correct, in that a good second language profile may be worth up to 5 points (of 100) when you get to a point where your file goes before a promotion board. It wasn't that long ago that second language training (SLT) was completed immediately after BOTP, so those who hadn't previously tested or tested out would stay up to 9 additional months in St. Jean in order to achieve a B profile. I believe this changed around late 06, after I went through, and that the only people sticking around for SLT after basic are the pilots, due to significant training delays (this may have changed). I didn't go to RMC, but I'm pretty sure that SLT is still a part of their programme as well.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that new francophone officers are given preferential slots for language training. In any case, you don't even enter your expected promotion zone (when your file may go to the board) until 4 years after making Captain, so if you want to work on your language skills, you have time. Many bases offer language training on location, so once you're posted you can ask your chain of command to get you on one of these courses. They also have 10 week SLT courses in St. Jean, as well as online/computer resources (like Rosetta Stone) that could be viable options.
You are correct, in that a good second language profile may be worth up to 5 points (of 100) when you get to a point where your file goes before a promotion board. It wasn't that long ago that second language training (SLT) was completed immediately after BOTP, so those who hadn't previously tested or tested out would stay up to 9 additional months in St. Jean in order to achieve a B profile. I believe this changed around late 06, after I went through, and that the only people sticking around for SLT after basic are the pilots, due to significant training delays (this may have changed). I didn't go to RMC, but I'm pretty sure that SLT is still a part of their programme as well.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that new francophone officers are given preferential slots for language training. In any case, you don't even enter your expected promotion zone (when your file may go to the board) until 4 years after making Captain, so if you want to work on your language skills, you have time. Many bases offer language training on location, so once you're posted you can ask your chain of command to get you on one of these courses. They also have 10 week SLT courses in St. Jean, as well as online/computer resources (like Rosetta Stone) that could be viable options.
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@Old Guy
You're right, our controllers are officers, with the exception of Precision Approach Radar (PAR) controllers, which is an enlisted sub-specification.
A big difference between our structure and yours (USAF) is that our occupation ended up merging ATC with what you guys refer to as ABMs (air battle managers - the airborne command and control folks you mentioned).
Cheers!
You're right, our controllers are officers, with the exception of Precision Approach Radar (PAR) controllers, which is an enlisted sub-specification.
A big difference between our structure and yours (USAF) is that our occupation ended up merging ATC with what you guys refer to as ABMs (air battle managers - the airborne command and control folks you mentioned).
Cheers!
I am currently doing my BMOQ at Saint-Jean and I'm francophone. I need to reach the CBB level in English in order to leave Saint-Jean after my BMOQ. If I don't, I'll spend some more time at the Mega on SLT. Yuk! I got E and C at the written exams but I'm still waiting for the result of my oral evaluation.
Two weeks ago, they asked us to give our preferences for OJT posting after the BMOQ. I put 1) Shearwater, 2) Cold Lake and 3) Trenton, but I'm afraid I might be posted to Bagotville just because I'm francophone. I heard that you don't usually get to Shearwater as a first posting, but I'd really like to go at Cold Lake too. More exotic to me than Bagotville... I can't wait to know where I'm going!
Two weeks ago, they asked us to give our preferences for OJT posting after the BMOQ. I put 1) Shearwater, 2) Cold Lake and 3) Trenton, but I'm afraid I might be posted to Bagotville just because I'm francophone. I heard that you don't usually get to Shearwater as a first posting, but I'd really like to go at Cold Lake too. More exotic to me than Bagotville... I can't wait to know where I'm going!
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I'm in Moose Jaw right now. And it wasn't one of my choices. But now that I'm here, I love it. From what I hear the single shacks here are the best in the whole CF. Where ever you wind up for OJT, you're there for a short time, so enjoy it.
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It'll either be September or January when I start in Cornwall
