A400M Rollout

[TCBF]

- May 2011.

8)

 

[YZT580]

I suspect that Boeing would be willing to open up a few delivery slots in the C-17 assembly line to assist the Germans until such time as the A400 can be delivered.  Forget the C130.  They are sold out for any large fleet deliveries for the next 5 years I think.  Sad though.  If they hadn't been so keen on trying to build their own engine systems, and had opened it up to P & W they might not be faced with all of these problems

 

[Haletown]

LM is pondering a "change" to the good old Herc/Jerc that could be the A400 killer

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/09/picture-meet-the-c130xl.html

 

[TCBF]

... If they hadn't been so keen on trying to build their own engine systems, and had opened it up to P & W they might not be faced with all of these problems

- Being Canadians, we know the fatal delays that can result from developing a new airframe AND a new engine (AND a new weapons system) at the same time.

 

[ironduke57]

... If they hadn't been so keen on trying to build their own engine systems, and had opened it up to P & W they might not be faced with all of these problems

Well noone can say that it couldn´t had happened the same way, if P&W would have been responsible for the engine´s.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[geo]

Quite possible Ironduke.... then again, a multi-national syndicate build VS a single source contracting might have averted some of the problems being experienced by the A400M.

 

[Haletown]

"If they hadn't been so keen on trying to build their own engine systems, and had opened it up to P & W they might not be faced with all of these problems"

Actually, in the beginning,  they did have an open competition and PWC won the bid for the engines - best price and technical proposal, lowest risk. 

Then the Euro weenie politicians got involved, arbitrarily canceled the deal because they wanted Euro jobs.

So the irony was supreme when they attempted to derail the purchase plans for the C17's we bought by spreading rumours and stories to the Quebec media, the PQ and the Bloc that only Airbus/ EADS would give Quebec the rightful aviation jobs they should have and that Boeing wouldn't.

Some cheeky, screw Quebec over in the first place and then claim to be their saviour.

Gotta love the Euros,  just like they love themselves.


Thank Crikey we bought the 17's & the Jercs and didn't fall for their snake oil sales pitch.

 

[ironduke57]

Quite possible Ironduke.... then again, a multi-national syndicate build VS a single source contracting might have averted some of the problems being experienced by the A400M.

True. I for myself would had preferred that they select one of our engine producers (e.g. MTU ) to develop it. Production could be be splitted later. (Like Leo2 which was originally produced by Krauss-Maffei and Atlas-MaK.)

...
Then the Euro weenie politicians got involved, arbitrarily canceled the deal because they wanted Euro jobs.
...

Yeah right. Something like this can´t happen in Canada.  ;D

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[Don2wing]

Re: Geo's earlier post on the C-130XL

LM is pondering a "change" to the good old Herc/Jerc that could be the A400 killer

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/09/picture-meet-the-c130xl.html

  Here is a picture of a Short Belfast from the 60's. This plane came to not as the UK had a pound sterling crisis and needed a loan
at the IMF. Part of the solution, as the Americans ran it, was that the Brits drop development of the Belfast and buy the C-130s.  Its cargo deck was 64 ft long and the fuselage over 18 feet in diameter. Not bad for the sixties as it could carry a Chieftain tank of the day.  The Europeans push their products but so do the Americans.

 

[Haletown]

and now, the confession that had to come. 

"The first flight of the A400M until now planned before the end of 2008 will be postponed, because of the unavailability of the propulsion system.

The first flight actually depends on the results of the test campaign to be done on the flying test bed, which should start in the coming weeks, and on the readiness of the propulsion system.

Only after this and further discussions with customers, the financial, technical and schedule implications can be reliably assessed.

The 2008 guidance of the group is not changed"

  http://tinyurl.com/3hejyj

 

[Haletown]

and now the internal finger pointing blame  game has started.  Cool !

"Ouch! the knives are coming out and the finger pointing is starting over the latest delay to the A400M, pushing first flight into at least 2009.

Safran, a key member in the Europrop International engine partnership, is taking issue with EADS’s explanation for why the A400M won’t fly.

EADS clearly put the blame on the engine makers, but Safran points out that eight TP400 turboprops for the first two A400M flight test aircraft have been delivered."

http://tinyurl.com/5y3rod

 

[MarkOttawa]

Just to rub it in:

C-17 Advances as A400M Slips
Aviation Week & Space Technology, Sept. 29, page 20 (text subscriber only)
http://www.aviationweek.com/search/AvnowSearchResult.do?reference=xml/awst_xml/2008/09/29/AW_09_29_2008_p20-83911.xml&query=c-17+a400m

NATO has taken a big step forward in boosting its airlift capacity with the signing of a memorandum of understanding to acquire three Boeing C-17 airlifters.

The move comes as EADS has acknowledged that the A400M’s first flight will not take place this year. It was initially supposed to take place last year and has been delayed repeatedly. EADS, the majority partner in the Airbus Military consortium developing the airlifter, blames “unavailability of the propulsion system,” and has not given a new first flight date.

The TP400, being developed by Europrop International, is now being prepared for flight trials on the Marshall Aerospace C-130 testbed. The engine will complete about 50 flight-test hours, at which time the expectation is the A400M will be cleared to fly.

EADS says it’s not adjusting its financial guidance as a result, although the delay will likely spell the need to take further financial provisions. With no schedule margin left, delays in getting to first flight translate directly into postponing deliveries to customers, company officials concede. The first handover now may not take place until at least 2011 [emphasis added]...

The delay could force some customers to review their airlift plans. The U.K. at one point considered buying up to 10 C-17s; it so far has committed to six and indicated it could go higher if the production line remains open.

Meanwhile, NATO hopes to take delivery of its first C-17 in March [emphasis added], with two more to follow roughly three months apart. The U.S. Defense Dept. is providing the first aircraft, while NATO is buying the other two directly. They will be based at the Papa air base in Hungary.

So far, 12 countries have signed the agreement: Bulgaria, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Sweden and the U.S. The Czech Republic is still debating the issue, but chances are seen as slim it will commit. Italy has asked for an extension to sign until December. The acquisition is the first major NATO weapons purchase since the alliance made the commitment to buy E-3 Awacs early warning aircraft 30 years ago.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[GAP]

With France officially being in recession, and the subprime fiasco hitting European banks and governments hard, there is a real chance that the whole consortium will go belly up, rather than sink scads of more money into it and Airbus's nonperformance routine.....

 

[Haletown]

And to think there was such huge opposition to buying C17's for the CF and such a correspondingly large  cry from the MSM and certain political groups to buy the  A400 - now the infamous A400, instead.

If only they had stuck with their original choice for an engine supplier and not allowed political expediency to dictate rejecting PWC and going with an  untried home team.

When I think of the four new C17's in CF livery, four aircraft delivered quickly and that perform so well, I can't help but feels some pangs of shadenfrude for EADS.

 

[KJK]

According to Defense Industry Daily Airbus has shutdown production of the A400M. It could be a long time before it flies, if ever.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/A400M-Delays-Creating-Contract-Controversies-05080/#more-5080

KJK

 

[geo]

Huge opposition to the CF buying C17s ???
Think it was more EADS that was pushing to have their bird considered for the job... Far as I can remember, the CF & DND people were all on the C17s side.

 

[Haletown]

The 400 will eventually fly . .  there is way too money & pride sunk into the program to have it fail.

Every day of delay costs a lot euros.  The 130 test bed has yet to get airborne and there are persistent stories  that the FADEC software sucks . .   a VERY big problem because that software has to certified before it can fly.

Every day of delay means more doubt to the long term future of the program past the initial purchases in Europe.

Shoulda stayed with the PWC engines . . . .  they'd be airborne by now

 

[Haletown]

as an aside, I guess we wouldn't need these if we had purchased the A400

http://www.casr.ca/doc-news-cc177-loader.htm

 

[geo]

as an aside, I guess we wouldn't need these if we had purchased the A400

http://www.casr.ca/doc-news-cc177-loader.htm

Ummm... no - they would still serve a purpose with the A400, Airbuses &/or other commercial aircraft being used to resupply our forces.

 

[Haletown]

Ummm... no - they would still serve a purpose with the A400, Airbuses &/or other commercial aircraft being used to resupply our forces.

except if we had purchased the A400, we would still be waiting for delivery of the aircraft so ummmmmm, we wouldn't need them