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WW2

Would the allies have won the war without the help of the United States?


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One cannot understate the contribution of lend/lease to the success of the Red Army, nor can one seriously claim that Soviet success was "inevitable" with or without this contribution.

After the colossal losses of 1941 the Red Army was short on everything, from rifles to tanks to planes - even to rank insignia for generals! (Gen. Katukov recounts having to draw the new rank of Major General on his lapels with marker)  It was the infusion of western equipment from the US, Britain, and Canada that allowed the Red Army to conduct its counter-offensives in '42 and '43, and which carried it back West in the campaigns of '44 and 45.

For example, the Soviet Union recieved over 10,000 tanks from lend/lease.  A significant number when one considers that total T-34 production to 1945 numbered about 35,000 tanks.  From a Canadian perspective, the entire Canadian production run (1,388) of Valentine tanks was sent to the Soviet Union, and overall nearly 15% of total British armour production ended up in Russia (this despite critical shortages of tanks in Britain's own forces).

More significantly perhaps, nearly half a million American trucks and jeeps were sent to Russia.  Virtually the entire Red Army ran on Studebakers.  It was these vehicles that allowed the motorized forces of the Red Army to conduct the sweeping advances that shattered the German Army so completely in 1944 and '45.

In fact American equipment was so ubiquitous in the Russian military that folklore had it that the letters "U.S.A" printed on it stood for Ubiyat Sukinsyna Adolfa or "Kill that Sonofab*tch Adolf".

During the war the Soviet state propaganda downplayed the significance of lend/lease, even while Stalin was privately threatening in frantic messages to Churchill and Roosevelt that he would negotiate peace with Germany unless Britain and America sent him more equipment.  After the war, the Soviets conducted a massive campain of denial to state that it had never been much of a factor.  

However the truth is that a Red Army without western (and in particular, American) lend/lease might well have survived, but it would have lacked many of the crucial components for a modern army and almost certainly would not have won.
 
Who cares who drew the maps, made the plans, contocted strategies, or had the most manpower.. the fact is - Fascism was defeated giving rights and freedoms to those in the dire situations forced upon them by the Nazi Party and its allies; by different nations and their people acting as one. I wish it didn't require a war to realize our potential.

Cheers
 
Patrick H. said:
Who cares who drew the maps, made the plans, contocted strategies, or had the most manpower..

Military knowledge is gained largely by looking back and reflecting on what worked and what didn't.  If we are going to ignore the conduct of our military in the past, we are bound to repeat the same mistakes when we go into the next war.
 
So true; yet people do not seem to learn from the past most of the time, despite those well known and much acclaimed words 'those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it' I guess were all just stuck in a vicious cycle of repetition the only difference's the circumstances. :crybaby:
 
Like someone mentioned earlier. We could think about what ifs until the cows come home. Hundreds (quite possibly thousands) of journal articles and books several inches thick have covered different aspects of war (particularly the world wars). If people with PhDs can spend their whole adult life studying and arguing about a single issue, then to think that we could answer a question effectively in a forum such as this is ludicrous. Each individual choice, no matter how insignificant it may seem at the time, may become a decisive factor later on. (personally the soup or salad question still makes me think what could have been.....) We should all be looking at what we can do as to not make the same mistakes in the future and how to think of ways to avoid them.

Just as an observation, in this forum, most of the threads I have come across,  the people that pose this type of question have an axe to grind and have a particular issue with a particular country/group. I'm not accusing the author of this, but more often than not, it becomes a "well this country wasn't that important/not important." fight with people that have little to no background on the issue making asses of themselves.

(p.s when the cows do come home, I have ribs and a baked potato. I always pick the soup and have a side salad added on)  ;)
 
I don't have an axe to grind; I posted the question, which I thought was legitimate, and have been studying the answers given. Some of which have been very "interesting" to say the least.
 
vangemeren said:
Like someone mentioned earlier. We could think about what ifs until the cows come home. Hundreds (quite possibly thousands) of journal articles and books several inches thick have covered different aspects of war (particularly the world wars). If people with PhDs can spend their whole adult life studying and arguing about a single issue, then to think that we could answer a question effectively in a forum such as this is ludicrous. Each individual choice, no matter how insignificant it may seem at the time, may become a decisive factor later on. (personally the soup or salad question still makes me think what could have been.....) We should all be looking at what we can do as to not make the same mistakes in the future and how to think of ways to avoid them.

Just as an observation, in this forum, most of the threads I have come across, the people that pose this type of question have an axe to grind and have a particular issue with a particular country/group. I'm not accusing the author of this, but more often than not, it becomes a "well this country wasn't that important/not important." fight with people that have little to no background on the issue making asses of themselves.

(p.s when the cows do come home, I have ribs and a baked potato. I always pick the soup and have a side salad added on) ;)

Sorry don't take it personal, I didn't mean you., I meant other posters I've seen that have had an alterior motive. I thought I was clear, ah well no problems . ;)
 
I took it as an indirect slap in the face, as though you were elluding to the fact that that's what the original post was meant for. It was not, and now that I know you did not mean to (in an evasive way) insult me. No worries.
 
Infanteer said:
Military knowledge is gained largely by looking back and reflecting on what worked and what didn't.   If we are going to ignore the conduct of our military in the past, we are bound to repeat the same mistakes when we go into the next war.

Good post, Infanteer! :)
 
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