Worth achieving higher NCM rank before going officer?

[vizering]

I'd like to become an officer once I graduate from university and get my bachelor's and I was just wondering if there is anything to gain by achieving MCpl or Sergeant before training to become an officer.

 

[Celticgirl]

I'd like to become an officer once I graduate from university and get my bachelor's and I was just wondering if there is anything to gain by achieving MCpl or Sergeant before training to become an officer.

I can pass on what I was told by the WO at my unit about a month ago on this subject. He said that if you achieve MCpl or higher, you can CFR (Commission From the Ranks), meaning you don't have to do the 15-week BMOQ. Apparently, PLQ gives you the equivalent in leadership training. He also said that the higher your NCM rank, the higher your commissioned rank. I think he told me you are commissioned a Lt. from Sgt. and Capt. from WO, but I could be a little off with that. It was a lengthy conversation and I was trying to absorb as much as I could very quickly, so don't take anything I've said as gospel.

Anyway, that's all I know / have learned about it, but I did find it interesting info myself. Food for thought.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I can pass on what I was told by the WO at my unit about a month ago on this subject. He said that if you achieve MCpl or higher, you can CFR (Commission From the Ranks), meaning you don't have to do the 15-week BMOQ. Apparently, PLQ gives you the equivalent in leadership training. He also said that the higher your NCM rank, the higher your commissioned rank. I think he told me you are commissioned a Lt. from Sgt. and Capt. from WO, but I could be a little off with that. It was a lengthy conversation and I was trying to absorb as much as I could very quickly, so don't take anything I've said as gospel.

Anyway, that's all I know / have learned about it, but I did find it interesting info myself. Food for thought.

CFR is for Sgt's and up. Only exceptional MCpl's maybe considered for CFR, there is a thread somewhere on that.

 

[armyvern]

Let's not forget that one does not 'apply' for CFR; one's CoC identifies/recommends someone suitable for CFR.

 

[chris_log]

Is he talking reg or reserve?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Let's not forget that one does not 'apply' for CFR; one's CoC identifies/recommends someone suitable for CFR.

Agreed Vern I neglected to indicate that in my post....

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Is he talking reg or reserve?

I don't think it should matter.......

 

[chris_log]

I don't think it should matter.......

It does.

One can achieve MCpl-Sgt rank as a reservist much quicker then as a reg force member.

A reservist cannot normally CFR to a reg force officer, they have to go through the DEO/ROTP route (unless that has changed recently).

To become a reg force Sgt and then CFR to officer means he'll probably be in his 30's-40's by the time he gets commissioned. If he, for example, goes the reserve route he could be a MCpl in 4-5 years and then go the officer route (reg or reserve) and be commissioned much earlier.

So ya, it does matter.

 

[aesop081]

One can achieve MCpl-Sgt rank as a reservist much quicker then as a reg force member.

The minimum time one has to serve before being able to CFR is 10 years. Wether or not one climbs in rank faster is negeted by the time requirement.

 

[Celticgirl]

Let's not forget that one does not 'apply' for CFR; one's CoC identifies/recommends someone suitable for CFR.

This bit of info I missed. Good to know.

 

[ltmaverick25]

You do not have to wait to hit Sgt to become an officer from the ranks.  I was a Cpl that was PLQ qualified.  I went officer and was granted BOMQ and CAP on my component transfer to the reg force from the reserves.  If you are already an NCM and you want to become an officer you are best to request commissioning right away in my opinion.  Dont worry about what rank you are or whether or not you have a PLQ.

It is faster for an Officer Cadet to reach Captain then it is for a Private to reach WO just to CFR as a Captain.  The earlier and younger you are when you commission the better in my opinion.

As far as training goes, the PLQ MODs 1-6 is a long and grueling course.  The BOMQ/CAP is also long and grueling.  There really is no easy way out on this front.  Regardless of which course stream  you take, your training will be long and challening and you will have to earn your way to a pass mark.

Being an officer is very different from being an NCM and can be very difficult to adapt to.  The sooner the switch, the easier the transformation is.  I realize nobody likes the idea of extremely young and inexperienced officers running around.  I dont particularily like it either.  But everyone has to start somewhere.

 

[vonGarvin]

Let us not forget the UTPNCM route.  Basically you need to be Cpl, 2 credits at university (and more stuff), and then it's similar to ROTP in that your university is paid (less parking) and you mark time as an OCdt until graduation.  If you are a Cpl, you will commission as 2Lt.  If you are MCpl or higher, you will also commission as 2Lt, but then be promoted immediately to Lt.  During your time as an OCdt, you will receive whatever pay you would have received had you remained NCM (and no, you don't get "pseudo promoted" when you reach max incentive).  The pay beyond that is a big mess (depending on trade, time in, the phase of the moon, etc). 

:warstory:  I was accepted UTPNCM in 1995 when I was a MCpl.  I had my QL 6A (ISCC) and Small Arms' Instructor course.  I received no by-passes in training, so I did everything a newbie off the street would do (BOTC I and II, Phases II, III and IV).  Today, a UTPNCM candidate with similar quals would do BOTP II, 1.1 and 1.2.  This is a great improvement in the system, because I learned nothing (actually, next to nothing) on BOTC I and Phase 2 (Today's BOTP and BOMQ (L), aka "CAP").

 

[Monsoon]

Let's not forget that one does not 'apply' for CFR; one's CoC identifies/recommends someone suitable for CFR.

Well sure - but you can request to be identified. Some CoCs entertain such requests and others don't; it all depends on the caprices of the individuals involved. Either way, the CoC will have to support the transfer to CFR, just as they'll have to support a transfer to RESO or DEO.

 

[George Wallace]

Well sure - but you can request to be identified. Some CoCs entertain such requests and others don't; it all depends on the caprices of the individuals involved. Either way, the CoC will have to support the transfer to CFR, just as they'll have to support a transfer to RESO or DEO.

I don't agree with your wording.  You make it sound like just anyone can suddenly decide that "today I want to be an officer".  It doesn't work like that either.  You can indeed request to be identified, however, that is usually after your talents/skills/abilities/etc. have been recognized in Merit Boards and your superiors have inquired of you if you would like to take that career path.

 

[Monsoon]

I don't agree with your wording.  You make it sound like just anyone can suddenly decide that "today I want to be an officer".  It doesn't work like that either.  You can indeed request to be identified, however, that is usually after your talents/skills/abilities/etc. have been recognized in Merit Boards and your superiors have inquired of you if you would like to take that career path.

Fair enough - it's just that some units do take the "wait to be identified" attitude to extremes, essentially forbidding anyone from requesting career change lest they jinx their selection. Kind of reminds of that Groucho Marx line: "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member." In the opposite case, the club won't let anyone join who wants to belong.

 

[George Wallace]

In the end, the Unit, then the PSO, will have to recommend or not recommend, anyway.

 

[aesop081]

You do not have to wait to hit Sgt to become an officer from the ranks. 

For the CFR program, the rank requirement is Sgt and above ( outstanding Mcpls may be considerd). Other comissioning programs are not CFRs.

 

[ltmaverick25]

For the CFR program, the rank requirement is Sgt and above ( outstanding Mcpls may be considerd). Other comissioning programs are not CFRs.

I am aware of that, I just want to make sure that others are aware that CFR is not the only option, nor, is it the better option IMO.

 

[ltmaverick25]

I don't agree with your wording.  You make it sound like just anyone can suddenly decide that "today I want to be an officer".  It doesn't work like that either.  You can indeed request to be identified, however, that is usually after your talents/skills/abilities/etc. have been recognized in Merit Boards and your superiors have inquired of you if you would like to take that career path.

This is exactly why I am a big proponent of joining directly as an officer if thats what you want to do.  It makes absolutely no sence to join as an NCM when you really want to become an officer, and then try to get it done latter.  Once you are an NCM there are too many people that can stop you and say NO, you are not becoming an officer. 

Bottom line is, for those that want a comission, go to the CFRC and tell them thats what you want, and if you meet the criteria thats what you will get.  One thing I have noticed is that going directly as an officer aka through CFRC, or through DMCA for component transfer, is a very clean and sterile process.  What I mean by that is that you are being interviewed and evaluated by people who have no personal bias.  Trying to commission when you belong to a chain of command changes everything.

 

[a78jumper]

  What I mean by that is that you are being interviewed and evaluated by people who have no personal bias.  Trying to commission when you belong to a chain of command changes everything.

Agree 100%