What do you think?

[LS_Cadet]

  Hi Everybody

  I am the RSM of an army cadet corps.  However, I am one of the few RSM's that exists who have not attended any summer camps.  I currently have two metals.  I am having some complications with people below me who did not get promoted because they had more summer camp qualifications than what I had.

  I was told that I was promoted because I do the job better, the others depended alot on their camp qualifications to get promoted and therefore do not always do the work and put effort in like they should.  I have told them this numberous time, but they do not understand and do not always treat me with the respect I deserve when I give an order.  Basically it comes down to who would you rather have, somebody who gets the job or done or somebody who has qualifications?

  I would like to know what others think of this situation and what to do if anything to those below me who do not always treat me with the proper respect I think I deserve as RSM.  Thanks 

 

[Burrows]

Its not what you THINK you deserve.  Its what you get.  You don't have to have respect for someone, to be courteous, and to follow their orders.

Talk to your CO and possibly have him confirm his choice with your seniors.

 

[armyvern]

Here in the Reg Force there are probably many persons who have been promoted who others thought for various reasons were not as desrving as themselves etc.

Regardless of their thoughts on the matter, proper respect is afforded the rank, and when it's not...we have a little charge called 'insubordination' that looks after that.

That being said, as the RSM you have the authority to deal with this matter yourself prior to going to your superiors. Point out to these personnel that an inherant quality in Military Leadership and in the determination of suitability for promotion, is the ability to give orders and to RECEIVE orders, without whining, in a professional manner, conduct which they, apparently, have yet to display.

 

[Burrows]

Remind them that summer camps, are no longer a prerequisite for promotion, and that their attitude is picked up by the junior cadets who might just have the same attitude when they are the RSM.

 

[medic65726]

A summer camp should give you the skills to be beter at your job and therefore more deservig of a promotion.
If these cadets bring nothing ut of their sumer aside from, "I showed up, therfore I should be promoted" the they really wasted their time didn't they.
If you are better at a leadership task, than someone who spent 6 weeks at camp, supposedly learning leadership skills, then good for you.
I see that as a reflection of your maturity and abilities, so don't worry about it.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Old Ranger]

Get creative.

Make up or get some leadership/promotion Quizzes for them(those that think they are deserving)

The best is a Timed test that starts out with "Read this entirely before you start"
All work must be completed on this page,use the back if necessary.

The last question/instruction is "Now that you have read everything, just put your name at the top". The first question/instruction should be put your name at the top Right corner.

Fill question with math, language,tactical analysis, mapping etc.

When those that are "complaining" fail miserably, it is easy for you to point out in a professional manner one of the reasons of the current rank structure.

Ben

Edited for swearing.

 

[Peace]

At this point their .02 doesnt count at all.

Kids will be kids i know. But they MUST respect the rank. If you have problems with one or two inpaticuliar pull them aside or pull the seniors aside...

Let them know that they are IMPORTANT at what they do now. Your need their support. Respect the rank even if you cant respect the man.  Let them know that you were chosen for a reason and the CO isnt a fool. He has his reasons and his objectives. Outline your jobs, and make them understand why it is important taht even if you hate eachother, for the sake of your core that you need the strength in upper command.

 

[reccecrewman]

An RSM shouldn't have to screw around with quizzes for his senior NCO's to show them why they aren't the RSM.  It's simple, odd's are, he's dealing with his WO's and MWO's crying about the situation.  By the time you reach WO or MWO, Chain Of Command should be a fairly simple thing to comprehend. RSM issues an order, and (provided it's lawful) it gets followed.  Those who do not comply, let the charge parades commence.  ;D

 

[Burrows]

Personally, I would like to see why you haven't attended a summer camp course of any type. 

Who are you talking to here?

The RSM was selected by the officers for a reason.  They know that reason, and the NCOs and in this case cadets should respect that descision.  Its not their place to question their superior at every road.

Cadet camp is not a mandatory part of cadets.

See above.

 

[KueflerVictor]

Personally, I would like to see why you haven't attended a summer camp course of any type.  

WWellsee where this man is coming from.  i would like to know why you hhaven'tgone to camp.

BUT none the less your subordinates should follow your order without question
i would say, if you took them aside and talked to them with an officer, they should straighten themselves out.  if not, start given them  things to do (ppolishingparade markers perhaps)
I am the CSM of our core and being a SGT has had some of the other seniors questioning me, but i did get them sorted out.

 

[Burrows]

Personally, I would like to see why you haven't attended a summer camp course of any type.  

WWellsee where this man is coming from.  i would like to know why you hhaven'tgone to camp.

BUT none the less your subordinates should follow your order without question
i would say, if you took them aside and talked to them with an officer, they should straighten themselves out.  if not, start given them  things to do (ppolishingparade markers perhaps)
I am the CSM of our core and being a SGT has had some of the other seniors questioning me, but i did get them sorted out.

You're quoting him and adding nothing but your signature why?

 

[Pea]

Normally, you do not publically question the appoint of senior ranks. You can provide constructive criticism as to how they do their job when it is called for. But you do not question how they got that position if they received it legitimatly, just because he has not been to camp (not 'summer training') does not a bad RSM make.

Grow up, the amount of fruit salad on a uniform should not be the main factor in how you decide if they are a good cadet or not. I never got my NSCE when I was in cadets, should I have been prevented from being a staff cadet?  

The not getting NSCE question. This was a touchy one when I was a cadet. I am sort of on the fence about this one. I don't think it should prevent one from being a staff cadet. But, I do think they should not be put in a leadership role (say Pl. WO) over a cadet who has passed this qualification.

Now let me explain. NSCE tests general knowledge learned as a cadet. If one fails this test, then in my opinion why should they be put in a role to teach others, if they have not proven that they know the material themselves? Especially being staff to a CLI platoon, who is most likely one year behind them, or may have their NSCE themselves already.

However, there are other staff postions at CSTC's that should be made available. At the Sgt. level. (Or the WO. level if there are not enough NSCE qual'd cadets available) Now let me make one more point, I am meaning this from the application level. So, when positions are initially offered to the cadets. I do believe though, that once the staff arrive for pre-course, then changes can be made. If it turns out that the NSCE qual'd Warrant looked good on paper, but is not performing to the expectations, then by all means, put them in a position more suited for them. Now, if there is a non-NSCE qual'd cadet who will do this job at the expectation level, give it to them.

My $0.02.

 

[KueflerVictor]

You're quoting him and adding nothing but your signature why?

my mistake take a look at what he said and then look at what i said mearly a typing error

 

[q_1966]

Now I agree for the most part that having NSCE   makes you a better teacher & Leader, but not necessarily

My Ex. Plt Sgt. (CL 2003, 18 Plt.) taught a lesson to our (CLI&C 3Plt.) Class about Clouds, Cloud formations and the like and even though he had failed NSCE earlier that year, I didnt know Clouds could be so bloddy interesting

And that year was his last year so he couldnt go back and do it again, but made he best of it. I also know horrible leaders and teachers that passed NSCE (Slipped through the cracks probably) so i think that NSCE helps but isnt the main basis of being a good leader & teacher, Character Is.

Edit: For typing Errors

 

[Dane]

NSCE isn't about becoming better at something. The idea is you already are.

It's like the bar exam lawyers take, it doesn't make them better lawyers but they need it to practise law.

 

[KueflerVictor]

Right on - NSCE just reinforces the things you've learned from Green through Gold Star.   If you weren't sure of something before, then the idea is that you can re-learn it enough so you can gain the general idea when you have to teach your cadets the same thing.

I totaly agree with you.  NSCE is more of a qualification of Green-Gold star.

 

[armygurl_557]

While camp is not everything for a promotion, or skills, it emphasizes an enormous part of it, and allows you and your peers to see you in a light where you are under a constant stress, and under the constant Cadet Rules (something that is much easier when you're a cadet for 2 hours a night, once a week).

Actually To My Undertanding, Camp is Only an Optional Part Of Training.
Personally I find that many people who have not been to camp before, but are in a higher position, do the job better because they didnt experience camp. Many people come out with positive and negative experiences form camp, like what you get out of camp often has something to do with your behavior for the following cadet year.
In Example, if you got RTU'd for an insufficent reason, in your opinion, then your opinion of the Cadet movement would lower and your respect for people in cadest would lower as well.

But That is not always the case, some people take it for what it is, and individual problem, not a terrible system.

 

[Burrows]

Camp is NOTHING for promotion prerequisites.

 

[Zedic_1913]

Camp is NOTHING for promotion prerequisites.

However camp still exists as a requirement for the Master Cadet appointment.

 

[KueflerVictor]

However camp still exists as a requirement for the Master Cadet appointment.

how true