Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's

[hambley92]

Basically, if that picture was taken in Germany, he would be authorized to wear German jump wings.

Right. It was taken last week at the NATO Chiefs meeting in Brussels. There are pictures of CDS wearing same insignia this weekend in Toronto too.

 

[Eaglelord17]

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1045579

and the Forage Cap *stuff*...

http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/news-publications/national-news-details-no-menu.page?doc=maple-leaf-is-back-in-new-army-dress/iv9j06gw

Forage caps – with their distinctive stiff brims – were replaced by the beret in the CA decades ago. CWO Guimond said their re-introduction is a nod to CA heritage that will also bring the CA more in line with many of its allies.

“The forage cap suggests authority, seniority,” he said. “It means a lot. And when we look at many other countries, the general officers are wearing their forage caps with their element uniforms.”
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I guess the Army Sgt-Maj doesn't remember getting issued his forage cap on Thursday of Week 1 in Cornwallis like I did.  I had no idea I had authority and seniority vested in me that day in Supply!

The forage cap suggesting authority is one of the few points I actually agree with. I was on parade a year ago as the Navy guy in a Army unit with the forage cap. The civilians organizing the parade would come up to me to ask what was going on instead of going to the officers as they thought I was in charge. The point being that is how civilians in particular view it, and it is one of the few visible changes civilians will notice (as change in ranks and such tend to get ignored as they don't know what the difference in ranks were to begin with).

 

[Rifleman62]

With all the bling and a forge cap don't stand near the entrance of a ritzy hotel.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The forage cap suggesting authority is one of the few points I actually agree with. I was on parade a year ago as the Navy guy in a Army unit with the forage cap. The civilians organizing the parade would come up to me to ask what was going on instead of going to the officers as they thought I was in charge. The point being that is how civilians in particular view it, and it is one of the few visible changes civilians will notice (as change in ranks and such tend to get ignored as they don't know what the difference in ranks were to begin with).

I don't think we should be deciding dress regulations off the perceptions of civilians though.  But, hey, as long as I can keep my head wallet for parades and stuff, I'm cool with the whole forage cap deal.  :nod:

 

[Eaglelord17]

I don't think we should be deciding dress regulations off the perceptions of civilians though.  But, hey, as long as I can keep my head wallet for parades and stuff, I'm cool with the whole forage cap deal.  :nod:

Not saying we should either, but to them it does suggest authority, which makes sense as you look at most militaries most (pretty much all?) use forage caps for there higher ranks. Personally I just want the kit required to do what I need to do, which currently we lack. It almost makes you wish they could ban dress uniforms until we have the actual equipment required to do our jobs, i.e. blow things up, kill people, and the stuff needed to support the equipment and people doing those two actions.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not saying we should either, but to them it does suggest authority, which makes sense as you look at most militaries most (pretty much all?) use forage caps for there higher ranks. Personally I just want the kit required to do what I need to do, which currently we lack. It almost makes you wish they could ban dress uniforms until we have the actual equipment required to do our jobs, i.e. blow things up, kill people, and the stuff needed to support the equipment and people doing those two actions.

I trust that by 'kill people' you mean 'the enemy'?

One never knows these days, especially if one is flying a Sea King or something like that

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Would you care if all of your subordinates who had US jump wings suddenly started wearing them?

Leadership is from the top down, no?  From http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/toc-04.page

4.02 - GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF OFFICERS

(1) An officer shall:
a.become acquainted with, observe and enforce:
i.the National Defence Act,
ii.the Security of Information Act,
iii.QR&O, and
iv.all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions that pertain to the performance of the officer's duties;

That would include CF dress regulations.  It sets the "we are GOFO/Snr Officer/Jnr Officers/CWOs/MWOs/WOs/Sgts, we can bend the rules that we are actually supposed to enforce" precedent.  If its not a big deal for our most senior ranks to do it, it should be even LESS of a deal if our OCdts, 2Lts, Cpls and Pte's do it.

But the last few years have shown us its not about leadership sometimes, its about getting the new bling.  Example, the "new" Wings for RCAF personnel that are approved but not produced in mass and distributed yet, but our senior leaders and a select few are sporting the new bling so they have their LCF goin' on while the people at the op level wait.  The Wings themselves aren't much of a big deal (the less I am in DEU and more I am in a flight suit, the happier I am...), the message of "the troops DON'T come first" is a big deal (to me). 

I'm well aware of the regulations, I just think that at this stage of Vance's career he's more a politician than anything else and only has a few years left in service I'm sure.

With the dismal state the CAF is in, I don't think this is the big ticket issue we should be focused on. I know for a lot of you old school mbrs it'll be hard to see that point of view.

Also, it's not like the CAF is out any money by having JV prance around in US Jump Wings, so while I get the budget discussion, it's irrelevant.

 

[AmmoTech90]

I'm well aware of the regulations, I just think that at this stage of Vance's career he's more a politician than anything else and only has a few years left in service I'm sure.

So Mr. MP, how much time left before CRA does a CAF member have to have before the regulations no longer apply to them?

And that attitude is why MPs should look after traffic route marking and POWs.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

So Mr. MP, how much time left before CRA does a CAF member have to have before the regulations no longer apply to them?

And that attitude is why MPs should look after traffic route marking and POWs.

Apples to Oranges, you're comparing a 25¢ pin on a suit jacket to CSD Offences.

 

[PuckChaser]

Apples to Oranges, you're comparing a 25¢ pin on a suit jacket to CSD Offences.

But by wearing that pin, the member could be committing an offense. You can't just piss off rules because that person might pull pin or is too high of a rank.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Edit: Disregard, I'm having a rough day and this wasn't necessary.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But by wearing that pin, the member could be committing an offense. You can't just piss off rules because that person might pull pin or is too high of a rank.

OK, I have to come clean now.

I never, ever wore the 1812 pin. Wasn't even issued it but I know that's no excuse.

Wait, there's someone hammering on my door....  ???

 

[dimsum]

OK, I have to come clean now.

I never, ever wore the 1812 pin. Wasn't even issued it but I know that's no excuse.

Wait, there's someone hammering on my door....  ???

Me neither.  It must have been lost in transit for 3+ years in the Pacific.  Someone in Australia probably has it now.

 

[my72jeep]

Me neither.  It must have been lost in transit for 3+ years in the Pacific.  Someone in Australia probably has it now.

War of 1812 pin hell l'm still waiting for my year of the veteran pin to be issued.