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Wearing an Ancestor's Medals Mega-thread

x_para76

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Well you've all convinced me how wrong I am in my thoughts regarding this topic. I have never intended to wear anyone else's medals other than my own. I did enjoy some of the personal attacks on my military service though. This rememberance day I would be happy to have a conversation with anyone about their long and storied military service.
 

Jarnhamar

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There is a difference between thinking a rule is stupid  and thinking the rule you think is stupid should be ignored.

I would personally rather see a widow or parent or child display these medals on remembrance day than see the legions gong show they put on but that doesn't change the lawfulness of the rule.

Given the pipes and crown fiasco and what someone lobbying the government can do, your ire would be better spent trying to change this rule through the government than calling people on in an internet message forum.

 

x_para76

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I just find it hard to conceive that one would apply the CC to a widow wearing her dead husbands medals on rememberance day and on the right side, the same way they would apply it to someone wearing medals or a uniform that they have no right to wear for the purpose of personal gain or some other dishonest reason.

There must be some grey area or latitude on this that wasn't taken into account when the law was written. The same way as there's leeway given on certain military regulations when operational conditions deem it necessary.
 

Michael OLeary

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x_para76 said:
I just find it hard to conceive that one would apply the CC to a widow wearing her dead husbands medals on rememberance day and on the right side, the same way they would apply it to someone wearing medals or a uniform that they have no right to wear for the purpose of personal gain or some other dishonest reason.

There must be some grey area or latitude on this that wasn't taken into account when the law was written. The same way as there's leeway given on certain military regulations when operational conditions deem it necessary.

There's no grey area, you're either following the letter of the law or you aren't. When someone disagrees with the law, or a military regulation, it provides them an opportunity to build their case and to use official channels to have it changed. No matter how much you may dislike it, that does not give you, or anyone else, a right to break it (whether or not it will be prosecuted).

In the UK the wearing of an ancestor's medals (or, more particularly, a deceased husband's or son's) on the right may have become an accepted if not officially supported practice. In Canada, this was unnecessary for those specific people you mention, because Canada instituted, and maintains, the silver Memorial Cross. This is an official emblem specifically presented in order that those members of a grieving family may have a visible symbol of their sacrifice to wear at appropriate occasions. For the families of those lost in Afghanistan, since they seem to be forming a particular point of your argument, the issue of three Memorial Crosses plus the new Memorial Ribbons means that the fallen soldier will be well commemorated by dedicated symbols worn by family members.

None of this, however, prevents you or anyone else from initiating a campaign to change the existing rules.
 

x_para76

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Michael O'Leary said:
There's no grey area, you're either following the letter of the law or you aren't. When someone disagrees with the law, or a military regulation, it provides them an opportunity to build their case and to use official channels to have it changed. No matter how much you may dislike it, that does not give you, or anyone else, a right to break it (whether or not it will be prosecuted).
 

x_para76

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I wasn't aware that Canada had such a decoration that is awarded to a wife or parent of a fallen soldier. I can see how that would eliminate the need to wear a family member's medals.

Thanks for the heads up!
 

Fishbone Jones

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x_para76 said:
I wasn't aware that Canada had such a decoration that is awarded to a wife or parent of a fallen soldier. I can see how that would eliminate the need to wear a family member's medals.

Thanks for the heads up!

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group09

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=MC
 

Towards_the_gap

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x_para76 said:
I wasn't aware that Canada had such a decoration that is awarded to a wife or parent of a fallen soldier. I can see how that would eliminate the need to wear a family member's medals.

Thanks for the heads up!

You are in a PRES unit and have never heard of a memorial cross?
 

Michael OLeary

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recceguy said:
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group09

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=MC

And the Memorial Ribbon:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=MemR

Up to five (5) Memorial Ribbons will be issued to close loved-ones who were not in receipt of a Memorial Cross.
 

George Wallace

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x_para76 said:
I wasn't aware that Canada had such a decoration that is awarded to a wife or parent of a fallen soldier. I can see how that would eliminate the need to wear a family member's medals.

Thanks for the heads up!

This form, along with your NOK and Emergency Notification forms, your MPPR, and other documents are all part of the annual AAG that your unit should be conducting when it stands up after the summer break.  It is all part of your Pers File that your unit should be maintaining. 
 

chrisf

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Towards_the_gap said:
You are in a PRES unit and have never heard of a memorial cross?

I'd say if you canvassed reservists across Canada, less than 1/4 would know what a memorial cross was.
 

ballz

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x_para76 said:
I just find it hard to conceive that one would apply the CC to a widow wearing her dead husbands medals on rememberance day and on the right side, the same way they would apply it to someone wearing medals or a uniform that they have no right to wear for the purpose of personal gain or some other dishonest reason.

There must be some grey area or latitude on this that wasn't taken into account when the law was written. The same way as there's leeway given on certain military regulations when operational conditions deem it necessary.

If convicted, a judge would take into account mitigating and aggravating circumstances when handing down a sentence. I am guessing your example would never result in a formal charge being followed through all the way to a conviction, but if it did, I suspect a judge would probably consider those circumstances quite mitigating and would probably grant an absolute discharge.

But this is all hypothetical, and I am not a lawyer.
 

Teager

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a Sig Op said:
I'd say if you canvassed reservists across Canada, less than 1/4 would know what a memorial cross was.

I doubt that. If they didn't know what it was then they would just put random friends and such down to receive it. If you READ the form you know what it is for. Maybe some of the new reservists might not understand it but I think the majority do.

Besides never sign a form you don't understand or don't know what your signing  ;) and if you do well I'm sure you'll learn quickly not to do that again.
 

George Wallace

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a Sig Op said:
I'd say if you canvassed reservists across Canada, less than 1/4 would know what a memorial cross was.

If that is the case, many units have RMS Clerks who are Oxygen Thieves.
 

Michael OLeary

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Teager said:
I doubt that. If they didn't know what it was then they would just put random friends and such down to receive it. If you READ the form you know what it is for. Maybe some of the new reservists might not understand it but I think the majority do.

Besides never sign a form you don't understand or don't know what your signing  ;) and if you do well I'm sure you'll learn quickly not to do that again.

Just because people get the briefing and complete the form each year, doesn't mean they would recognize a Memorial Cross if they saw someone wearing one. And even fewer would recognize the Memorial Ribbon.
 

Teager

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Michael O'Leary said:
Just because people get the briefing and complete the form each year, doesn't mean they would recognize a Memorial Cross if they saw someone wearing one. And even fewer would recognize the Memorial Ribbon.

I agree with you there. My response was more in knowing what the Memorial Cross is. A lot would not know what it looks like or the Memorial Ribbon. That would go for most medals and ribbons many do not know what they look like and are awarded for.
 

Fishbone Jones

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George Wallace said:
This form, along with your NOK and Emergency Notification forms, your MPPR, and other documents are all part of the annual AAG that your unit should be conducting when it stands up after the summer break.  It is all part of your Pers File that your unit should be maintaining.

Read his profile. He's no longer serving.

George Wallace said:
If that is the case, many units have RMS Clerks who are Oxygen Thieves.

Rather than slag the clerks, how about rebutting the assertion that Reservists don't know shit.
 

George Wallace

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recceguy said:
Rather than slag the clerks, how about rebutting the assertion that Reservists don't know shit.

This is a form that the OR has members fill in annually..... If the Clerks aren't doing it, then there is something wrong.  It doesn't matter if they are PRes or Reg, it is an administrative problem.  At the same time, those who don't ask questions as to what they are filling out/signing, really are looking for problems later in other contracts, etc. that they may sign outside of the military.

It still boils down to people not doing their jobs.
 

Fishbone Jones

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George Wallace said:
This is a form that the OR has members fill in annually..... If the Clerks aren't doing it, then there is something wrong.  It doesn't matter if they are PRes or Reg, it is an administrative problem.  At the same time, those who don't ask questions as to what they are filling out/signing, really are looking for problems later in other contracts, etc. that they may sign outside of the military.

It still boils down to people not doing their jobs.

I don't want to derail the thread further, so I'll just let you go.
 
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