Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )

[honestyrules]

Good day!

Here's my question: Who, within your immediate chain of command,(rank &/or Position) has the authority to refuse your VOT application.
I'm not talking about the career manager or the BPSO (I know both can).


I just feel that for some reasons my VOT process might be brought to a full stop for retention purposes (at the unit level). Would that be ground for some kind of redress?

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

Unfortunately not. The VOT programme allows for denial due to manning levels. If you decide to apply to a COTP trade then you won't have to worry about that stipulation since that programme neatly sidesteps the whole manning crunch dilemma.

 

[284_226]

Nobody at the unit level can quash your application for VOT.  The CO of your unit can give reasons to support "not recommended" to the BPSO, but that's it.  The decision is ultimately made by the selection board with input from the BPSO.  If you're in a trade that has limited numbers to VOT out, then the ranking is done at the selection board, not by your CO.  If you had proof that your unit was trying to externally influence the process in a manner other than their recommendation to the PSO, that'd be pretty good grounds for a grievance.

I applied for VOT for the 2002 competition, and my CO at the time vehemently argued that I wasn't a suitable candidate.  Fortunately, the BPSO saw through the ulterior motives of the CO and my VOT was approved by the selection board.  On the last day before my OT, I ensured that I personally thanked the CO for his support.  >

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

284_226 ,
This is a good example. I was inform by my warrant yesterday that both my chief and CO will no recomend me for my VOT due to manning issues. Now, I have 2 decisions to make, keep going on with the OT or withdraw myself from it.

 

[284_226]

That's only one decision. 

If you have a PSO that's on the ball, he/she should be telling the Chief and the CO that their comments regarding manning issues aren't really within their purview when it comes to OTs.  Their comments should be restricted to what type of serviceperson you've been, and how they expect you to perform in a new occupation.

Manning issues are supposed to be within the realm of the Career Managers - who are consulted before the VOT competition opens up to determine how many members will be allowed to VOT out, depending on the state of the trade.  The year that I OT'ed, it was stipulated by my losing career manager that only three personnel would be allowed to VOT out.  When the competition closed, the board just took all the applicants, rated them (without regard to manning issues), and then the top 3 personnel got the VOT.

 

[honestyrules]

Thanks for the answers!

Manning issues are supposed to be within the realm of the Career Managers - who are consulted before the VOT competition opens up to determine how many members will be allowed to VOT out, depending on the state of the trade.  The year that I OT'ed, it was stipulated by my losing career manager that only three personnel would be allowed to VOT out.  When the competition closed, the board just took all the applicants, rated them (without regard to manning issues), and then the top 3 personnel got the VOT.

There is no such thing as manning issues in my trade (we're in green), although I'm expecting the Career manager (who has issues manning the "french first language" positions within the trade...), to say something, trying to retain me because of a language issue. There should be something like 3 positions for VOT in my trade. I just don't want my VOT to be turned down cause there is so few of us speaking French and they want to keep us in this trade for that particular reason.

 

[284_226]

Thanks for the answers!

There is no such thing as manning issues in my trade (we're in green), although I'm expecting the Career manager (who has issues manning the "french first language" positions within the trade...), to say something, trying to retain me because of a language issue. There should be something like 3 positions for VOT in my trade. I just don't want my VOT to be turned down cause there is so few of us speaking French and they want to keep us in this trade for that particular reason.

I can't speak for other trades, but in my case, the career manager didn't even know about my OT request until the OT message came out of Borden.  He was actually the last to find out.  I was on good terms with the losing CM, so I have no reason to believe he'd tell me otherwise.  I suppose there's nothing stopping your chain from mentioning it to the CM in an attempt to sway your wishes, but I don't think there's much influence they can bear, short of the "old chief's network".

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

you're right 284_226. One thing I wonder, my trade AVS is amber. AESOP is red. So by OTing to a red trade I don't see why I should be penalized. I know a FE who was selected even tough his CO did not recommended him. I know AESOP is different, its open to all trades, but from what I've heard, there's not a lot of applications so far.

 

[284_226]

you're right 284_226. One thing I wonder, my trade AVS is amber. AESOP is red. So by OTing to a red trade I don't see why I should be penalized. I know a FE who was selected even tough his CO did not recommended him. I know AESOP is different, its open to all trades, but from what I've heard, there's not a lot of applications so far.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say you're being penalized.

 

[Sub_Guy]

As the above posters mentioned, no one in your unit level can deny your OT.

But what they can do (as was stated) is not recommend you and give you a crappy write up.  Now that being said will not stop you being accepted into a new trade.

There is a link on the CFRG Borden website that shows you the limits on each trade (how many are permitted to OT out).  If you want I can send it to you.

Carry on with your OT process, if you had a decent supervisor he would do everything in his power to see you through and help you on your way. 

The career manager will have no idea that you have your OT in, he will only find out when you leave, or if someone gives him a heads up.  In the big scheme you are just a number.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

I've decided to OT anyway. BPSO knows and told me if my unit try to hold me again they'll deal with it this time.

 

[flames9]

Hope u go through with ur re muster to AES op, loved my time in the trade. best job going in my little opinion!!  At one time they used to get quite a few applicants and was quite competitive, but in the past yrs that has changed, so I have been told, as I'm no longer in the Forces. Best of luck

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

284_226 ,
I apology if I didn't reply earlier, I must have missed your post.
What I meant by penalize was as my supervisor point of view. I was told I would not be recomended due to manning issues. They wrote that AESOP was open to all trade therefore a cook for exemple may have better chance than AVS because my trade is amber and soon to become red. Now I know that is BS because CFRG are the one taking the decision as to who get selected or not. Now with that in mind, my CO will most likely not recomended because of manning issues within the scadron. I sure I'm praying lots these days that it does not weight much when the board sits down in the next few months.

 

[284_226]

Ah, now I understand what you meant, thanks.  You seem to be doing just about everything you can do to minimize the interference from your CoC.  I think as long as the PSO is well aware of what their ulterior motives are, you've got as good a chance as anyone.  I do sincerely believe that the CF would rather VOT a member than lose them altogether - if at all possible.

 

[darrk_majin]

I have been thinking of remustering trades for a long time now, I am reg force. I was thinking of going from Veh tech to combat arms trade. I am finishing my 4's right now. From what I know my current trade is red flagged and told that is will be next to impossible to change trades after i become 4's qualified. Then I was told by a few people that it might even be faster to get out then reapply after the 6 month waiting period. Has anyone herd of this being done and does anyone have any experience with it. Also please share your views on the situation

 

[George Wallace]

Well......A VR is the quickest way to Remuster to Civie.  As for getting into another CF Trade, you will now have to figure out where your Pers File goes and how long it takes to go there, and then how long it takes the CFRC to retrieve it.  Then you have to figure out where you Med File goes, and how long it stays at each location along the way, and then how long it will take the CFRC to Track it down and put it all together with your Pers File.  Then you will have to take into account the last PER you will get and what it may do to any hopes of rejoining.  Have we mentioned the fact that you will probably be moving in the meantime?  There are several other factors you may want to ponder after you have sorted through these ones.

 

[GUNS]

Would I be out of line if I asked for your reason to switch?

 

[armyvern]

Another point to ponder ...

What if you VR'd then tried to get back in --- only to have them keep offering you Veh Tech being that you are already QL3 qualified?? Perhaps they won't let that money they've already put into you be wasted?? Be very careful what you wish for.

I'm also wondering your reasons as to why you'd want to remuster at this stage of your career -- you're on your QL4s ... you haven't even experienced what your daily work will be like in actuality once out of the trg phase.

And, I hope that your reasonings aren't simply to get onto a tour faster -- that's be doing it for all the wrong reasons.

 

[geo]

Ummm have you thought of asking your career mangler?

 

[darrk_majin]

I want to remuster because I do not feel I am in the right place,  Ever since the day I started my trade I have been lied to with what kinda work I will  get to do. I thought and hoped it would be alot different then what it is. Combat arms have always  intrested me, I feel that I should being doing that stuff at this point in my life and not sitting back, I am young and should be out there. I want to have the chance to get on some of the courses and jobs they get to do. I have always been into the physical type of lifestyle. I just dont feel satisfied with what I'm doing right now.