Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )

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wackymax

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I have playing with the idea of remustering from SigOp to Infantry for the past few weeks of basic. I have one week left @ Farnham and then it's off to Kingston for me. I've missed the deadline for remustering here at basic but I have another opportunity (so I'm told) when I get to my MOC training.

Here's the deal: I'm very competent technologically, however, I love nothing more than to be out in the elements with the boys, a ruck on my back and moving through the woods @ night. From what I've seen of the other SigOps in basic here as well as other Sigs I've talked with, I am confident that I would excel in that position. I don't find dealing with technology challenging.

At basic here, I find many of the classes pretty dry. Most of which I have to battle to keep my concentration and stay awake but when it comes to any of the survival/field training classes, nothing could break my focus. I soak it all up and I'm left looking for more. I try to work it out of my instructors, however, they're all Navy. Several of my weapons training and PT instructors have come to me after class and asked me what trade I was in. When I fill them in that I'm heading in as a SigOp the general respose is, "ohh.. too bad" and give a bit of a cringe.

I'm working my way to being fit. I'm far from where I want to be but I do believe that I've gotten a fairly good start. My platoon is made up of more than 80% combat arms yet I did the best on my PT test than the rest.

I never joined the army for money or to be a hero. I'm here to be a proud Canadian, to serve my country and look for a life unlike any other. I could care less about being a Master Corporal or whatever faster than the rest. I want to do something that gives me purpose and drive to excel. I want to learn about survival, section attacks, jungle/desert/mountain training, and pushing the body to it's physical and mental limits. I'm not certain the SigOp trade could provide this.

There are a couple things about infantry that I'm uncertain of. Drill & carrying a 120lb ruck on my back for the next few years for starters. Drill isn't exactly my favorite thing in the world (but does look fu**ing cool).

Maybe my concerns are unfounded, however, I would appreciate any comments and/or suggestions as to whether or not a remuster might be a good choice of action. I might have a better idea of what I want to do after my last week at Farnham but I'd like some reading when I get back :)

Thanks all!!
-- Matt
 

Spooks

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Remuster -to- the infantry. For formalities, I'll give the standard instructor's "Are you nuts?" now to get it out of the way.

We had a guy in basic who was going SigOps who would pump off 40 onehanded pushups in the smoke pit while smoking, and then switch to the other hand. Perhaps one of the most fit guys in the platoon. I am in the same boat as to understanding technology easily, but I went infantry instead from the start because my civy job prior to the CF was technologically based and was very unsatisfying for me.

First, if you find that classes are boring and tiring it won't end just because you're in the infantry. The instructors will always dim the lits, close the doors and windows and probably up the temperature intentionally. As an infanteer, you'll have your weapons classes in SQ, tactics, fieldcraft theory and so on. In BIQ you'll have AFV and regimental history as long as a review on most of the things you learned in SQ. Even in battallion you have a lot of classroom stuff esp in your BasicComms and DP2A courses.

Now as for the field, yes Inf do a lot more of the boonie stuff than the sigs guys. Atleast here in the west you see sigs guys go for a lot of Ruckwalks for morning PT, in the inf you get your bimonthly 20km runs and more running. Dril...well, I ave done little in the past 4monthes that I've been in Battallion. You have morning parade which is...attention, at ease, attention, at ease, stand easy, dismissed. For ruckmarches your ruck weighs 55lbs minimum and most people say (unless you're training for a mountain man competition or something) not to hurt your body and cram 100lbs in there to prove your manliness. In the field your -gear- can get up in weight as you add rations, ammo, peripheral gear to your body and weapons, more ammo, and protective gear. 120lb -ruck- would happen only in odd circumstance or you really pissed off your superiors.

Personally, I enjoy ther infantry a lot as when you do some of the higher training it is very rewarding. Your successes and failures are very immediate for us at the bottom of the pile, so you know when you've done well. Now, as for OTing (Occupational Transfer) in your MOC training as was told to us in training, "You need an O before you can have a T" I believe Infantry is full, but maybe that is old news now.

If you have any other Q's, ask.

My four rubles
-Spooks
 

Seamus449

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A quick question that I could not find the answer for on here nor could I talk to anyone at the recruiting center. I'm wondering what all of you who have had successful VOTs or are currently transferring did during the transfer? I'm a reservist and if I get my VOT approved I'd hope to be at my new unit by next summer so I could go on course as a member of that unit. But what will I do over the year while I'm waiting to transfer? Will I stay with my unit until the transfer is complete or will I parade with the unit I'm transferring with? Or worst of all, would I be sent into a payless limbo for god knows how many months lol?

Thanks!
 

beach_bum

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You continue to parade with your home unit until your transfer is complete.  In some cases, I have seen attach postings go through where the member parades with the gaining unit.  Whatever you do, do NOT go NES! 
 

Seamus449

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Heh course not, don't wanna loose the job. I'm going to talk to a clerk in my unit about the proper way to go about a VOT if hes not too busy tomorrow night, I am afterall quite new to the whole military paperwork game.
 

FlightSergeantRose

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I handed my memo in to change trades on a tuesday night and was subsequently called in on the following thursday to come see the platoon commander. Upon my arrival, our new plt cmdr began blasting at me for first; 'who the fuck are you making demands here, thinking your owed something'; 'Your memo format is all wrong, this is shit'; and 'Im not going to send your memo up the chain until you have 100% attendance'.

Well first off, I never made any demands other then saying I want to remuster trades and that I had sent in a loss report about a year ago and that I wanted to know what was going on with that, so if asking for information on whats going on is demanding things, then I guess I'm guilty.

Second, perhaps my memo format is not 100% 'correct'. Our new plt cmdr is used to something different than what I've been using. I have been using the exact same format for the last 3 years and noone has ever said anything about my memo not being the right format.

Thirdly, I am in school and cannot attend all functions. I come to almost all tuesday nights, the weekends though are tough to make because that a whole weekend gone that I can't spend reading or doing homework. I have to spend about 20 hours minimum a week reading for the following week, not to mention essay's, group work and whatever else I have to do.

He tried telling me that I either have to take an ERNT(sp??), or leave the military. I told him I am not doing either and that I will continue to do what I'm doing, attending Tuesday's and participating in as many weekends as I can. My commitment to the military is long term and I have no plans on leaving it after I graduate. As school becomes less a burden, my attendance will improve.

I guess my question is, can my plt cmdr hold my memo from getting passed up? I will make sure my format is correct for next tuesday. If he can, then what are my options for getting a transfer? Anyway I can go around him or file complaints or something?

I don't suppose someone here knows the 'correct' way to write a memo and could share it with me. I would really appreciate it.
 

George Wallace

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A couple of things:  From your post, and not knowing who you are, you make it sound like your new Pl Comd should not wear the rank he does.  That is from your one sided statements only.

You can find how to write a memo here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27040.0.html

It is in the Search Function, should you need to look for it or similar items.

Next:  Reference your 'Lost Damage Report' inquiry.  Submit a Redress of Grievance to this new Pl Officer and have him give you an answer.  Again, it is a Memo and he should have a reply back to you within 14 days.  If not you can follow the Chain of Command and go the the next level, which is his boss.  You may also do this with your memo for a Remuster, I might add. 

If others in your platoon are being similarly treated by this officer, complain to your Snr NCOs and SSM.  You may have grounds for harassment.  If nothing else, his incompetence as a leader and officer may come to the appropriate people's attention.
 

FlightSergeantRose

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Thanks for the quick reply. I would not say that he's imcompetent in any way, but he was quite hostile and pissed off when I first came in. Maybe he had a bad day or something. He's actually a warrant officer in his mid 30's prolly, so maybe that explains something.
 

ark

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Ask your section Cmdt, his 2IC or the OR to help you write in proper format. Don't be afraid to go see your RSM and let him know the way you were treated.
 

MARS2INF

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After searching here for some time, I have come to notice that it there isn't much information with regards to the process of GETTING a VOT going. As I am going through the process myself (MARS to Infantry) I would like to present the process as given to me by my Coxswain. Without further ado...

#1    First select an occupation(s) you are interesting in pursuing.  You can accomplish this by reviewing the site, below, which contains information on all occupations, within the CF.  Review the site and make your selection(s), remembering you must meet the minimum entry level requirements wrt medical, education, experience etc.  If you do not meet the entry level requirements you cannot and will not be considered for a VOT into that occupation.

http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dmhrr/engraph/specifications/os_bymosid_e.asp?  (DIN access only)

#2    Once you have chosen an occupation(s), you are interested in pursuing, you then have to confirm if that occupation is "open" for VOT.  This is accomplished by viewing the "Reassignment List" at this site:

http://borden.mil.ca/cfrg/english/BTIM_e.asp  (DIN access only)

If the occupation is "open" you may request a VOT into that occupation.  If it is "closed" you may not request a VOT.

Once you have accomplished this you are required to complete and submit all of the following documentation/paperwork:
  a) Memorandum to CO (thru DivO) requesting Voluntary Transfer
  b) Copy of CFAO 11-12 Annex D (Part 1 & 2 completed)
  c) Medical Category Form CFAO 11-12 Annex D (Part 3 completed)
      i) Member meets minimum Medical Category for new occupation
  d) From the Orderly Room:
      i) Copy of current MPRR
      ii) Copy of current CF Express Test result (within the last 12 months)
  e) BPSO Self-Assessment Form completed
      i) Member meets minimum educational requirement for new occupation

Once all of the aforementioned VOT paperwork has been completed, by you, and submitted, you will then be able to initiate your VOT file and only then are you able to seek a BPSO interview.


This was what I used as a template for my VOT, and was at the BPSO within 5 weeks, which is quick given the amount of SITREPs I requested to that poor Coxswain.  Every 2 days or so I asked for a SITREP.

My advice? Be proactive. Get the checklist at the link above, muster the required docs and fill them out. Write a professional memo with the appropriate file number (5035 I think it is, but don't quote me on that one - for the love of all that is Holy and Divine, do not use 1001-1 ADMIN) Talk to your DivO & HOD, they'll have seen it before and could aide/advise you accordingly. But, these links and information listed here are definitely things I wish I had when I started this whole, um, manoeuvre.

For all those wanting a VOT, good luck, and cheers,

MARS2INF
 

MARS2INF

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...update to my last. And another reason one may want to be proactive about their careers.

Fourty-eight hours after expressing my concern for the lack of information with regards to my VOT after four and a half months of being told to standby, lo and behold, I get an eMail from CFRG saying that they would like to expedite my transfer into the Infantry.

Lesson learned?

Squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease, only if that squeak is close to causing a problem to the vehicle. Otherwise, it's fairly easy to put up with an occasional squeak...

*sigh*

If only I had been this "squeaky" in August, then I may have been loaded on course in Sept. as anticipated. Hindsight being 20/20...
 

MARS2INF

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Further evidence of proactivity:

Getting on the case of my Course Training Officer to bug CFRG about the status of my VOT resulted in my message being cut and sent within 24hrs.

So, things can get done if enough noise is made to make it happen. And it starts with the person who wants/needs the attention... apparently, the ball will always be in your court, so don't just stand there dribbling - make a play.
 

Pte_Martin

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I want to OT so for the memo do i put down the trade i would like to go, or do i just write a memo asking for a OT and get it approved first?
 

284_226

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Infantry_ said:
I want to OT so for the memo do i put down the trade i would like to go, or do i just write a memo asking for a OT and get it approved first?

If you're talking about VOT (voluntary occupation transfer), you should be aware that you can't VOT until you've got 48 months service, promoted to Cpl, and QL4 qualified.
 

PO2FinClk

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Is this even a serious question? Sincerly as I am not sure. :-\

When you go to Subway you don't just say that you want to it, you ask for something. ::)
 

Pte_Martin

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When i go to a store i tell them what i want that's why i am there to get something, Like i said I want to OT If you would have read my post you would see that i DID say that i would put in a memo Asking for it, i was just wondering if on that memo do i put the trade i would want to go to, or if i just wait till i get approved, or not. 
 

Roy Harding

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Infantry_ said:
When i go to a store i tell them what i want that's why i am there to get something, Like i said I want to OT If you would have read my post you would see that i DID say that i would put in a memo Asking for it, i was just wondering if on that memo do i put the trade i would want to go to, or if i just wait till i get approved, or not. 

Infantry_  :  Settle down. 

A Voluntary Occupation Transfer implies two things:

1.  You are currently employed in an MOC

2.  You wish to be employed in a DIFFERENT MOC

In other words, you need to specify what trade you are looking to get into.  You can't just up and write "I want to be a different trade - I'll decide which trade later" - it won't fly.

THAT's all that PO2FinClk was driving at.  It would help if you thought things through, prior to posting questions like this - if you do so, you'll usually come to an appreciation that the question doesn't need to be asked.

By the way - when/if you DO submit your memo for VOT, I hope you recall where the spell/grammar check button is - I'm still not sure what analogy you were attempting to draw regarding a store.

If you want, you can PM me with your draft memo (once you decide which trade you want to VOT into)  - we'll give it a "dressing up".


Roy
 

CallOfDuty

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.......just curious...If someone was in a trade they weren't happy with, and their initial 3 or 4 years were coming up and it was time to sign the next contract, could they sign the contract with a clause that they begin the VOT process, or somehow ensure that when they sign on for more time, that it is in another trade?
  I've heard some differing opinions on this matter.

Cheers
C.O.D. :cdn:
 

George Wallace

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CallOfDuty said:
.......just curious...If someone was in a trade they weren't happy with, and their initial 3 or 4 years were coming up and it was time to sign the next contract, could they sign the contract with a clause that they begin the VOT process, or somehow ensure that when they sign on for more time, that it is in another trade?
  I've heard some differing opinions on this matter.

Cheers
C.O.D. :cdn:

Could they sign the contract with a clause that they begin the VOT process or otherwise enter another Trade?  No!  There is a 'Contract' already made up for you to sign, with no option of "adding clauses" to it.

You will have to stay in that Trade and write a Memo, visit the BPSO, etc. to do a VOT.
 

CallOfDuty

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ahhh...ok, thanks George.  Say my trade is a "RED" trade.........does that make it harder to VOT out of it?
  I guess what I'm asking is, can your CoC screw you on trying to VOT?
 
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