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US, NATO Outta Afghanistan 2021

daftandbarmy

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The Germans weren't and aren't still trying to kill them after they were defeated.

It wont end well, but that how the west fights wars. All in for a generation, but eventually cannot stand the cost in blood and treasure.

Russia, UK, France, USA, eventually there comes a point where if the fighting is still ongoing after 10-20 years, we are done.
I‘n betting it’s not 100% done. Realpolitik suggests there will be ongoing engagement of some kind, it just might be diplomatic vs. military.
 

FJAG

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Interesting. Allies kick the tar out of the third reich Germany and than stayed in Germany. Still to this day. They stayed (I think) to maintain stability and to counter an existing threat (Soviets and the warsaw pact). That threat existed for 45-50 years .

So the Taliban, is still a threat but "20 years in this war" and time to go? I am not sure this will end well for anyone.
The Brits left in 1842 and again in 1881, kind of again in 1919, the Soviets left in 1989, then we left and others in dribs and drabs, the Brits are leaving once again. Leaving Afghanistan is a thing. At least we spent some fifteen years building up their national army and good luck with that.

There hasn't really been that much there in combat forces anyway. I don't want to sound pessimistic but I expect we'll all be back again to evacuate our embassies in due course.

:cautious:
 

Altair

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I‘n betting it’s not 100% done. Realpolitik suggests there will be ongoing engagement of some kind, it just might be diplomatic vs. military.
Diplomats will not be able to stop taliban from marching on Kabul when the Afghan army melts away like a ice cream on a hot sidewalk in July.
 

daftandbarmy

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Diplomats will not be able to stop taliban from marching on Kabul when the Afghan army melts away like a ice cream on a hot sidewalk in July.

Western culture tends to view such events much differently from Eastern.

To them, the most important organizational sub-unit is not the battalion, platoon or company. It's the tribe, clan and family unit (if I got those right?).

Afghanistan is far more used to turns of event like these than we are. I'm guessing they'll be just 'fine', with 'fine' being defined by them (not us) :)
 

Altair

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Western culture tends to view such events much differently from Eastern.

To them, the most important organizational sub-unit is not the battalion, platoon or company. It's the tribe, clan and family unit (if I got those right?).

Afghanistan is far more used to turns of event like these than we are. I'm guessing they'll be just 'fine', with 'fine' being defined by them (not us) :)
Depends on who you define they as.

I'm not sure women will be fine, young girls in school will be fine, those who like enjoyed a increase in freedoms will be fine. But its a might makes right world in Afghanistan, and if those aforementioned groups don't step up and fight the Taliban with the same determination the Taliban fights the Afghan central government, then that's the way the cookie crumbles.
 

OldSolduer

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Depends on who you define they as.

I'm not sure women will be fine, young girls in school will be fine, those who like enjoyed a increase in freedoms will be fine. But its a might makes right world in Afghanistan, and if those aforementioned groups don't step up and fight the Taliban with the same determination the Taliban fights the Afghan central government, then that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I'm not confident in the Afghan Army. I'm certain we will be seeing heads on pikes, public stonings, hangings and beheadings before the end of this year.

158 were lost on this and thousands more physically and mentally wounded. I'm torn between "this was a waste of our troops and resources" and "we should be proud for at least trying".
 

Altair

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I'm not confident in the Afghan Army. I'm certain we will be seeing heads on pikes, public stonings, hangings and beheadings before the end of this year.

158 were lost on this and thousands more physically and mentally wounded. I'm torn between "this was a waste of our troops and resources" and "we should be proud for at least trying".
Both.

Proud that we tried but it was a waste in the end.
 

Good2Golf

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158 were lost on this and thousands more physically and mentally wounded. I'm torn between "this was a waste of our troops and resources" and "we should be proud for at least trying".
not ‘A’, yes to ‘B’.

I won’t sell Afghans down the river just yet. Will it get ugly for a bit? Likely. Is there a younger generation of Afghans who are smart and not willing to slide back into the rural/southern/Pashtun-centric anti-progressive ways of the Taliban without a solid struggle? Yes. And at the very least, there are a bunch of elected politicians who know what side of their toast the butter is on, and they are quite pragmatic enough not to want to eat the dry side of the toast.

$0.02
 

Colin Parkinson

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More like "traded away" the soldiers doubt the resilience of the government to hold. We should make sure that the senior members of the government that have benefited so much and given so little have to stay to meet the Taliban.
 

Pelorus

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The Brits left in 1842 and again in 1881, kind of again in 1919, the Soviets left in 1989, then we left and others in dribs and drabs, the Brits are leaving once again. Leaving Afghanistan is a thing. At least we spent some fifteen years building up their national army and good luck with that.

Let's not sleep on the OG attempt to conquer Afghanistan:

 

daftandbarmy

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Let's not sleep on the OG attempt to conquer Afghanistan:



“Afghanistan is more than the ‘graveyard of empires.’ It’s the mother of vicious circles.”

Maureen Dowd
 

Good2Golf

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Acknowledging updates of Taliban takeovers in many districts, after the original article was posted in The Economist,

D&B, just wondering what led to your naming of the thread, when the article itself was: 🤔

Joe Biden calls time on America’s longest-ever war​

America leaves behind a weak state and struggling army.

Biden was honouring the deal that Trump brokered with the Taliban, ie. US withdraws, and the Taliban pledge to work peacefully with GIRA to develop the way ahead?
 

daftandbarmy

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Acknowledging updates of Taliban takeovers in many districts, after the original article was posted in The Economist,

D&B, just wondering what led to your naming of the thread, when the article itself was: 🤔

Biden was honouring the deal that Trump brokered with the Taliban, ie. US withdraws, and the Taliban pledge to work peacefully with GIRA to develop the way ahead?

I was just lazy and copied the article title into the thread title, as per SOP :)
 

daftandbarmy

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We might be missing an opportunity to build a 'Pale Settlement' somewhere so the various Special Forces organizations can train and prepare Afghan nationals, who are currently refugees, to liberate Taliban occupied Afghanistan when the time is right.

You know, kind of like the Bay of Pigs invasion but without the 'failure' part :)
 

OldSolduer

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Acknowledging updates of Taliban takeovers in many districts, after the original article was posted in The Economist,

D&B, just wondering what led to your naming of the thread, when the article itself was: 🤔

Biden was honouring the deal that Trump brokered with the Taliban, ie. US withdraws, and the Taliban pledge to work mostly peacefully with GIRA to develop the way ahead?
FTFY - you're welcome ;)
 
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