Unit sitting on my OT

[Panzertech]

I hope this wasn't covered somewhere else because I am sure that it happens a lot. I am in a certian armoured unit out west and trying to OT to Ammo Tech, however my unit keeps sitting on my OT. I am a Veh Tech. This is my second attempt to submit an OT. First I attempted to OT I submitted the memo and application did the customary 15 times returned memo for corrections finally got the memo past my Sgt it made it to my ET who called me to his office and offered me a tour to the Stan IF I pulled my OT, I turned that down and asked that the memo be submitted up the chain. I was then "Ordered" to pull my OT (This was after tanks were being deployed to the Stan and only a very few of us were Leo/ARV qualified) I refused on the basis of if I have to be ordered to pull my OT the order is not legal an would have been filtered out if the ET had that authority. Needless to say the unit dragged their feet and I was handed my OT memo and Application back 2 days before I deployed to the Stan it never even made it to the CO. I was in a FOB and on missions for my entire tour less HLTA so was not able to submitt overseas. I am back and have submitted my OT once again and on following up with the new ET my Memo and app have not made it to him yet and it was submitted a week ago it to his knowledge was on a warrants desk. I am not sure what to do to get this OT rammed through. I am not one to be a trouble maker however I am ready to submitt the memo personally to the CO after dropping copies to all in the chain. Does anyone have a better Idea how to handle this? I am sure bypassing the COC is not a good idea and I know I am supposed to have an answer on my memo in two weeks however in my unit this rarely happens. Is there a CFAO or some admin referance that has the response times for memo's. Hope it doesn't sound like I am whining however I think I am getting screwed here by people that think that there is SFA I can do about it.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Submit a memo requesting the status of your OT application.  They have 14 working days to respond.  If you don't get a return then resubmit to the next level directly ie OC.  If in another 14 days they don't respond to that memo then send a new memo with copies of your previous one to the CO etc.  That being said if they do reply they can simply say your memo is being looked at or something similarly vague.  Now mind you this is a Cpl speaking so others may have more exact or precise advice.

 

[honestyrules]

In the routine orders, you get the link toward all the needed documents to put your OT in. Maybe if you start to fill up the paperwork and book yourself a medical and all, they'll start to do something. I know here, 15 Nov is the deadline for this year's OT applications. So your unit is trying to "gain" some time probably. After the 15 Nov, it goes until next year's OT period before your application will be looked at.

 

[Sub_Guy]

I don't know the entire situation, but it almost sounds like you need a Mcpl to step up.  Someone has to keep those Sgt's/PO's on their toes....  The only really crappy thing is that when submitting an OT you should (time permitting) try to get it in asap to avoid the last minute rush.

I have seen this happen twice once as a peer, and the second time as a supervisor.  It really stinks.  I know how you feel, you don't want to piss to any people off because if you do the odds of you getting a decent write up isn't that good. 

I do know of one guy who called the BPSO and brought to their attention what was going on at his unit, at which time the BPSO came back down onto his unit through the back door.  The end result is that the file got processed and the fella is currently in his new trade.  <----- That worked for him..... Did he make friends, no he did not, did he care, NO, besides he already had enough people on his Christmas card list.


Tape OT memo too a brick and throw it through a fucking window, that will get someone's attention.

 

[Panzertech]

I LOVE that brick idea. Not too worried about the deadlines. The program I am using is the Continuous OT Program so even if I don't make the board this year I will be in line for the next one but they are always accepting the OT Apps. I would like to have put it in earlier but was not able to as I was busy wrenching on tanks.

 

[kj_gully]

I have made a couple OT's in my career, and the first was from a combat arms unit, which was notorious for the type of foot dragging you are dealing with now. I contacted my PSO, and explained that my memos were being "lost". I was granted an initial interview without a referral. i did a lot of the interview and paperwork during a course, which happened to be on base (Plq). I had to skip a shower between PT and classes to get some stuff done, but the PSO was good about getting me in b4 their scheduled appointments first thing in the morning. By the time I needed a recommendation/ signatures from my unit, I had so many ducks in a row that they understood the seriousness of my intent, and grudgingly admitted that in the big picture, having me serving somewhere for 20 years was better than having me serve half heartedly in their unit for one more tour then get out. I guess I'm advising you to be determined, and demonstrate your intent. The unit cannot be faulted for screening OT requests some b4 putting forward every memo from every corporal with a thorn in his/her as$. Walk your memo through if possible. This will allow you to speak to each person who has to sign off. If they are busy, drop it off, but check back in person and often until it is signed, then deliver it to the next in line. It is a lot harder to say no in person.

 

[lou-reed]

Hi,

I have OT'd four times and went through the nause of having paper work lost, withheld, whatever you want to call it.  There is good advice given in the posts above.  OTing is not easy and the sytem is designed to weed out those who are not serious.  Half the battle is ensuring that your i's and t's are dotted and crossed.  If you are not serious it is easy to give up.   

Your unit cannot "order" you to withdraw your OT.  It is common that they will "promise" you something in return for showing your loyalty to the regiment, unit, etc...However, in most cases the unit will not come through or does not have the authority to make such offers.  I was offered my Small Arms Instuctor course if I withdrew my OT - I did, but I didn't realize that I would have been course loaded regardless if I withdrew my OT or not.  Be careful when they make you an offer you feel you cannot refuse. 

Your leadership has to respond to your memos within a certain timeline.  Ensure you keep them honest. 

Your unit is fighting to keep you just as hard as you are to OT.  At times it may feel like a battle of wills, but stick to what you want and what is best for you.  Remember you are your career manager - no one else.

Good luck 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Your unit cannot "order" you to withdraw your OT.

Are you sure operational requirments can't overide that?

 

[meni0n]

No, operational requirements cannot influence anything. Once your OT will be in, you will still go on tour and if you're selected you will get it after you return. Why do you think there is a PSO  on every tour?

 

[Avro_Arrow_1976]

get someone to "mail" your papers to the CO. I have seen it done, totally legal.

 

[kj_gully]

5.  Another thought - if your trade is closed out for OT, no amount of personal correspondence will change this - it could be that those in your CoC have checked with the Adjt, who has verified with your Career Manager and the BPSO, but you are not being told the whole story.



- not the case here, but if the trade you are trying to get into is COTP, your trade cannot be closed out. Trades like Clearance Diver, SAR Tech, Aesop, probably Int op, and more, so called "robber trades" you can't be refused because your trade is closed. You can be not recommended, but not refused.

 

[Roy Harding]

CSA 105 is right on the money on this one.

As a former CC I can attest that the Adjt/CC are only too happy to help out a "switched on" soldier in his career plans.  Also as a former CC, I can attest that nothing will make trouble for you faster than a surprise phone call from the BPSO to the Adjt, or the BPSO Clk to your CC wondering where "Bloggins'" paperwork is - it ain't pretty.

Read CSA 105's post a couple of times - have a beer, think about it; read it again - have another beer.  Monday morning approach your chain of command and discuss the issue.

Best of luck to you.

 

[meni0n]

Here is the AVOTP message for 08/09. Contrary to what CSA 105 said all MOS ID are open and applications will be accepted at any time so op requirements have nothing to do with a OT. Having talked to a BPSO last month, he informed me they do not look at CO recommendations too much as there have been alot of cases where members were given a negative write up because COs want to keep the member at the unit.

FOR ALL URS, F/B/WPSO AND COMMAND PSO S
SUBJ: 2008/09 COMPETITION FOR THE ANNUAL VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM (AVOTP) FOR NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS
REFS: A. CFAO 11-12
B. MOC/MOSID ENTRY EDUCATION STANDARDS HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DGPGP/ENGRAPH/REPORTS/EDUSTED_E.ASP?SEC=5 (LOWER CASE ONLY)
C. DAOD 5049-1
D. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05/05 NEW TOS
E. VOT APPLICATION FORM ftp://borden.mil.ca/cfrg/English/CFAO_11-12_application_form_e.doc (LOWER CASE ONLY)
F. DAOD 5023-2
G. LFCO 24-02, PARA 13
1. APPLICATIONS FOR AVOTP WILL BE ACCEPTED BY DMCARM 7/ISS (IN-SERVICE SELECTION - FORMERLY UNDER CFRG HQ) AT ANY TIME
2. THE DEADLINE FOR RECEIPT OF APPLICATIONS FOR THE NEXT SELECTION AT DMCARM 7/ISS DET BORDEN FOR 08/09 SELECTIONS IS 30 NOV 07.  UNITS SHOULD CONSULT THEIR BPSO OFFICE FOR LOCAL SUBMISSION DEADLINES
3. ALL MOSIDS ARE CONSIDERED ""OPEN IN"" AND ""OPEN OUT"" FOR VOT.  NOTE THAT DUE TO PRESENT SERVICE REQUIREMENTS SOME MOSIDS WILL BE LIMITED IN THE NUMBER ALLOWED OUT/IN.  APPLICANTS ARE ALLOWED A MAXIMUM OF TWO MOSID CHOICES UNDER ANY OR ALL VOT PROGRAMS
4. THE LIST OF MOSIDS OPEN IN OR OPEN OUT IS SUBJ TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE DEPENDING ON SVC REQUIREMENTS
5. ELIGIBILITY:
A. APPLICANTS MUST MEET TIME IN REQUIREMENT LISTED AT REF A ANNEX A (PREVIOUS P RES TIME MAY BE INCLUDED IN CALCULATION IF NO BREAK IN SERVICE HAS OCCURRED)
B. APPLICANTS MUST MEET EDUCATION ENTRY CRITERIA LISTED AT REF B
C. ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE COMPLETED A MEDICAL UPDATE WITHIN THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS OF THIS YEARS COMPETITION DEADLINE AND POSSESS THE REQUIRED MEDICAL PROFILE FOR THEIR PRESENT MOSID AND TARGET OCCUPATION
D. AS PER REFS F AND G, MBR MUST HAVE A CURRENT ANNUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS EVALUATION WITH A PASS RATING ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN ONE YEAR, OR AN EXPRES INCENTIVE EXEMPT PASS RATING (INCLUDING ANY APPLICABLE ENVIRONMENTAL OR OCCUPATION STANDARD ASSESSED AS EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN MPFS, I.E., LFCPFS, ETC.) ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN TWO YEARS, PRIOR TO ANY VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER.  PROOF OF MBR'S STATUS MUST BE PROVIDED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER
E. APPLICANTS FOR MOSID 00337 AC OP MUST HAVE COMPLETED A BASE LEVEL AIRCREW MEDICAL.  FOR THESE APPLICANTS PART 3 OF REF E MUST BE ANNOTATED QUOTE FIT POTENTIAL AIRCREW UNQUOTE WITH AIR FACTOR ANNOTATED BY THE BASE SURGEON
6. CAREER IMPLICATIONS:
A. APPLICANTS MUST THOROUGHLY UNDERSTAND THE CONDITIONS OF SERVICE AS OUTLINED IN REFS A, C AND D.  APPLICANTS MUST ALSO BE AWARE THAT THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF ACADEMIC OR TRAINING FAILURE ARE REASSIGNMENT TO AN OCCUPATION THAT IS OPEN AT THAT TIME OR RELEASE
B. SELECTED APPLICANTS WILL NO LONGER BELONG TO THEIR UNIT UPON EFFECTIVE DATE OF VOT (APS 08 FOR MOST), AT WHICH TIME THEY WILL BE POSTED TO THE NEAREST BTL OF THEIR HOME BASE TO AWAIT TRG
7. COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS:
A. UNITS MUST SEND THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS TO DMCARM 7/ISS DET BORDEN, 53 CORONEL RD/PO 1000 STN MAIN, CFB BORDEN, ON, LOM 1C0:
(1) COMPLETED VOT APPLICATION FORM AT REF E (PARTS 1-5)
(2) CF 285 PERSONNEL SELECTION REPORT
(3) UP TO DATE MPRR INCLUDING FITNESS RESULTS (NOT EMAA VERSION)
(4) APPLICANTS FOR MOSID 00161 MP MUST HAVE SLOR X 3 AND RESULTS OF AN ENHANCED RELIABILITY CHECK (FINANCIAL & CRIMINAL)
B. ALL APPLICANTS TO 00161 MP ARE TO REQUEST THE CRITICAL INFORMATION PACKAGE FROM THEIR B/WPSO OFFICE
C. DO NOT REPEAT DO NOT SEND PERS FILES OR UERS TO DMCARM 7/ISS
D. OFFERS FOR SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS SHOULD COMMENCE 14 JAN 08 AND CONTINUE THROUGH END MAR 08. NO REQUESTS FOR UPDATES ON ACTIVE FILES WILL BE CONSIDERED UNTIL 15 APR 08 AND MBRS MUST GO THROUGH THE UNIT CHAIN OF COMMAND
E. APPLICANTS ARE NOT TO CONTACT ISS DIRECTLY.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Army.ca is awesome for advice on this stuff. Listen to em.
My old unit sat on my CT for a year. I was driving 2 hours each way on thursday nights being a good little soldier waiting for my CT accepting excuse after excuse until the fellows here brought me to my senses.  We all want to trust that the army has our bests interests in mind but it's simply not always the case. Most of the time they do, sometimes people shit the bed.

It's your career and you're not getting younger.

 

[Roy Harding]

Here is the AVOTP message for 08/09. Contrary to what CSA 105 said all MOS ID are open and applications will be accepted at any time so op requirements have nothing to do with a OT. Having talked to a BPSO last month, he informed me they do not look at CO recommendations too much as there have been alot of cases where members were given a negative write up because COs want to keep the member at the unit.

...

Emphasis added.

I don't doubt the veracity of your comment or source, but isn't that a kick in the nuts for the entire chain of command.

 

[meni0n]

I guess it is, but it wouldn't happen if some chains didn't pull the kind of things they sometimes do. Everyone hopes for an ideal situation when it comes to their OT/paperwork, but sometimes people don't have your best interest at heart.