Trying to start a reserve unit

[Colin Parkinson]

With the downturn in the forest industry and reduction in the Gas & Oil stuff, a part time reserve unit would be a welcome addition to employment mix. some good ideas in this thread in regards to the makeup of the unit and I agree standing up a subunit is likely going to be easier.

 

[redleafjumper]

The logical choice is of course the Kamloops-based Rocky Mountain Rangers; however, there is limited will to sponsor a sub-unit here, without the support of 39 Brigade as the long distance to travel to meet parade requirements makes the connection tenuous at best.  It is very much a chicken and egg situation - no new unit without staff to form a command cadre and no command cadre without a unit to sponsor a new sub-unit.  No unit support without Brigade support and no brigade support without committed resources.  no committed resources without a military authorization and no military authorization without a political decision.  No political decision(?) - Perhaps no decision is the decision. 

One possible solution in terms of unit sponsorship that has been suggested has been to send local PG folk on course, but there seems to be resistance to do this, possibly because of the tenuous nature of such a relationship and the desire to send personnel who are already parading on course.

Where is Flavius Vegetius Renatus when you need him? (sigh)

Cheers,

 

[daftandbarmy]

I lived in PG for a year, a few years ago. In that time I met several other reservists, Officers and NCMs, who were in PG for work or college/ university. They all expressed an interest in starting up a reserve unit there, and knew of others in the same situation.

Why not advertise locally for a reservist/ROTP 'meet and greet' evening and see who turns up, then hold regular 'voluntary' meetings after that? Over time, you might generate enough critical mass and momentum to argue for unit status.

 

[stealthylizard]

It makes perfect sense - but I am biased 
Perhaps a detachment of 39CER - isn't there one at Trail already?
However, it would be cheaper and faster to start up an infantry unit and maybe then add and engineer troop/sqn.

Trail has the 44th.  Not sure if its called CER or FES.  Back when I was there it was FES, in 96/97.

 

[dapaterson]

Trail is a sqn of the Regiment.

The Army Reserve isn't growing.  To grow 100 pers in Prince George (or elsewhere) you have to shrink 100 somewhere else.

So, in this plan, which units are closing?

 

[stealthylizard]

Is Trail still part of 1 CER?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Is Trail still part of 1 CER?

No, 39 CER

 

[geo]

Trail is a sqn of the Regiment.
The Army Reserve isn't growing.  To grow 100 pers in Prince George (or elsewhere) you have to shrink 100 somewhere else.
So, in this plan, which units are closing?

Aye... there's the rubb!!!

39 CBG isn't looking to add a new unit to it's ORBAT - so you can only work with what already exists.
If there is a BC infantry unit that is understrength - it would be there that you'd have to start; block off +/- 30 of their positions so that this detached sub-sub-sub unit could struggle into existance.  Trouble is - if there is no new additional money, how would you finance the new troops - cause the  CBG has probably already taken into account the weaker unit's strength & slashed their budget.... so where do you get the additional money ???

Another chicken & the egg kinda story

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Oh for the good old days when some rich guys could raise their own regiments. Or even equip them with tanks.

 

[redleafjumper]

DAPaterson,
So tell us, what units were closed or reduced to re-form the Halifax Rifles or to start up a new unit in Yellowknife?  The zero sum game issue makes it clear that this is a political issue.  My observations of reserve units in BC is that several are understrength, or at least parading that way.

In Prince George, at various times the outgoing mayor has even offered to have the city build an armoury and lease it to DND at a favourable rate.  The incoming administration will likely be of the same mind.

Cheers,


(modified for typo correction)

 

[dapaterson]

Good question.  I don't have the answer.  It's likely that other units will be given reduced recruiting intake to offset attrition, shrinking them, and possibly damaging their future viability.

"Understrength" is a misnomer with Reserve units.  The overall establishment for the Army Reserve exceeds its authorised strength.  While this is in violation of CFP 219, there has been little enforcement of those rules.  Thus, if every unit were to be full and parade regularly, the current resources could not support it.  A less than ideal reality, to be sure.

Generally, Area Commanders have a certain degree of latitude with their existing units, in terms of ensuring maintenance of target strengths - if the Buckshot Fusiliers in 55 CBG are having difficulty, the Podunk Rifles of 67 CBG may be permitted to grow to maintain overall strength.

Standing up the Halifax Rifles again will likely be relatively easy, as it will leverage existing facilities and existing full-time pers.  (Equipment issues may be the most significant problems).  Yellowknife will be a significant challenge (particularly given the size of the community).


One point to keep in mind:  Any stand-up must be done well, with all the proper resources assigned to ensure success.  A half-assed effort would merely serve to poison the well in the community for the future.  Given the dramatic difficulties in current full-time manning for Reserve units, adding new locations will only exacerbate the current problems.  Standing up "The Prince George Mounted Infantry Regiment" or whatever it would be called without providing the needed support would be a waste of resoruces, and a command failing.


Finally, the Army isn't short of infantry; far from it.  The Reg F infantry is well in the green and the Res F infantry is a healthy plurality of the Res F.  Perhaps instaed of yelling "Gimme", it would work better to ask ":What do you need, and how can we help you get it?"

 

[geo]

Some interesting points DAP

-  How did Halifax manage to get the new unit.... not saying the minister for the Atlantic gateway was responsible... not saying he isn't

-  I had suggested Infantry as a likely prospect for Prince George cause that's the easiest building block to equip and maintain... but you may be right - identifying a capacity the CF needs & finding a way to deliver on it...

A toughie !

 

[dapaterson]

I can't comment on the Halifax situation, due to the source of my knowledge of the issue.

But I'd re-iterate - talk to the Army, say "What do you need?" and then present a case for how you can meet that need.

 

[vangemeren]

I know I'm out of my lane here and I know that this post might go under the "dumbest things you heard today" but,

...But I'd re-iterate - talk to the Army, say "What do you need?" and then present a case for how you can meet that need.

A) Say that you want to create a new Ranger Patrol unit. Use the words "Arctic Sovereignty Augmentation"
and/or
B) Re-enforce the patrols in MacKenzie and Vanderhoof with a bunch of ex-reg force people that I am sure Redleaf Jumper could round up. Use the Ranger command structure (limited office positions I know) which is used to long distances and use this as an embryo for a unit.

This way both groups get something out of this arrangement:
Ranger unit: Experienced Pers.
Future unit: Command structure and resources until they gain critical mass, then helping them in the future with support.

I'll head back to Radio Chatter to await the judgement...

 

[redleafjumper]

Van Gemeren wrote: [glow=red,2,300]A) Say that you want to create a new Ranger Patrol unit. Use the words "Arctic Sovereignty Augmentation"
and/or
B) Re-enforce the patrols in MacKenzie and Vanderhoof with a bunch of ex-reg force people that I am sure Redleaf Jumper could round up. Use the Ranger command structure (limited office positions I know) which is used to long distances and use this as an embryo for a unit.

This way both groups get something out of this arrangement:
Ranger unit: Experienced Pers.
Future unit: Command structure and resources until they gain critical mass, then helping them in the future with support.[/glow]

Actually this was already tried - it didn't fly with the Ranger command staff and it wasn't allowed to fly in PG as the large city is too big for a ranger unit (that is what we were told) and PG is designated as a possible source for a reserve unit.  When the previous CoSs for 39 Brigade were brought up here they were supportive and we even had the Rangers come to a medals presentation with LCol Stutt - he was impressed and reported so, but that didn't matter.  It keeps coming back to being a political decision.

Cheers,

 

[redleafjumper]

I have been asked to post the following request:

Anyone in the Prince George area with military experience (especially but not limited to combat arms) who would/could be available for service with a reserve unit (IF one were to be formed) in Prince George B.C. please contact Sheldon Clare at clare@cnc.bc.ca

Cheers,

 

[BC Old Guy]

redleafjumper:
I've been following your efforts with some interest through this thread.  I hope that you are successful.  It would be interesting to see what success you have in gaining interest from ex-service personnel.

BCOG

 

[RUEZ]

I'm pleased to see that the Rocky Mountain Rangers are setting up a reserve unit in PG. Very nice to see it finally happening after such a long wait.
http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/19471/1/army+reserve+returning+to+p.g.?

 

[noneck]

Redleafjumper-

My congratulations, I can  appreciate what it took to lobby DND and effect change at such a level. It took myself and another 7 years to make a change to the QR&O's. You stayed the course and it worked out Bravo Zulu. It's a good move for the Rm Rangs as well, it should prove fertile recruiting ground for a B Coy, now if they can only pde more than 2 sections in Kamloops!

Cheers
Noneck

 

[redleafjumper]

NR - 11.004     February 25, 2011

THE ARMY RESERVE IS COMING TO PRINCE GEORGE

PRINCE GEORGE, B.C. – Prince George is getting a new Army Reserve unit. As part of an Army Reserve expansion project the new unit, which is a detachment of the famous Rocky Mountain Rangers, is planned for the city as early as September this year. 

“We’ve been in discussions with the city for some time now about the feasibility of standing up a Reserve army unit in Prince George,” says Lt.-Col. John Feller, the Commanding Officer of the Rocky Mountain Rangers.  “We’re very encouraged by the community’s support for an Army Reserve unit in this region, and we look forward to having new soldiers from Prince George become part of the Rangers,” he adds.  Reserve soldiers are part-time members of the Canadian Forces that live, work, or attend post secondary school in the communities where they serve. 

The plan for establishing the new Rocky Mountain Rangers detachment is still in progress, and the Rangers and City officials are working together to prepare future activities and events highlighting the unit’s move in to the community.  “Our recruiting activities will increase in Prince George over the next while,” continues Feller, “and we’ll be looking to recruit men and women of age that are interested in serving Canada part-time in a number of infantry positions with the Rangers.”
 
The Rocky Mountain Rangers maintained a detachment in Prince George after World War 2 until the late 1960s when that detachment was closed.  Since that time, Rangers have fought in every major conflict where Canada has been involved, including the Afghanistan campaign.  At home, Rangers have volunteered to help protect our communities during the Kelowna forest fires in 2003 and during the Winter Olympics in 2010.


-30-


Note to the Editor:
For further information or to request an interview with Lt.-Col. John Feller about the Rocky Mountain Rangers detachment coming to Prince George, contact Captain Chris Poulton, Public Affairs Officer at 604-374-6311.



Wooo hooooo!

Cudos to LCol Feller for making this happen on his watch.