Traffic Tickets Issued By MP's

[PViddy]

Personally and strictly IMHO i would never just pay a ticket.  If i am correct MP's issue tickets under the HTA ? in which case if it is being tried in civi court you have an excellent chance of getting the ticket reduced even further.  Maybe somone can explain how a traffic ticket on base is tried, and i might be able to provide some more relevant information.  But ya the skinny is, never speed on base - the MP's will eat you because their is usually not much else goin on.  And yes, "never speed ever!" blah blah how many people do exactly 100 on the 400 series highways ? come on. 

cheers

PV

 

[ZipperHead]

The law is the law. Yes, I may sound like Ned Flanders, but believe me, I have broken more than a few.

If you want to start breaking the law, where does it end???? Well, who cares if the law says 1 spouse. 2, 3,4 .... what's the big deal???? Judge, I don't care if the Stat Rape age is 16 [or whatever it really is]. 15, 14, 8.... who cares?!?!?!

If you do the crime, do the time.

And, BTW, PViddy, I noticed that you are an OCdt (based on your avatar anyways). If/when I see you, I'm not going to salute you (when you get the Commission) because who salutes officers, anyway???

 

[NCRCrow]

C'mon Al................. you sound to pusser not to salute

10 clicks over the limit without a warning, gimme me a break

Its a citizen's right to have his day in court/

 

[George Wallace]

Personally and strictly IMHO i would never just pay a ticket.   If i am correct MP's issue tickets under the HTA ? in which case if it is being tried in civi court you have an excellent chance of getting the ticket reduced even further.   Maybe somone can explain how a traffic ticket on base is tried, and i might be able to provide some more relevant information.   But ya the skinny is, never speed on base - the MP's will eat you because their is usually not much else goin on.   And yes, "never speed ever!" blah blah how many people do exactly 100 on the 400 series highways ? come on.  

cheers

PV

I am sure you read this whole post, but in case you didn't, reply # 4 stated:

Re: Traffic Tickets Issued By MP's
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2005, 18:59:00 »    

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Quote from: GSXRK4 on September 13, 2005, 15:58:08
Just wondering if anyone has any idea what the SOP is when an MP's traffic ticket is disputed in court. Are the MP's required to a) to go to all court hearings b) dont go to any court hearings c) it is up to the issuing officer d) something else.

Answer is....this court case will be like any other court case.....The Issuing Officer will be there

 

[Neill McKay]

Personally and strictly IMHO i would never just pay a ticket.   If i am correct MP's issue tickets under the HTA ? in which case if it is being tried in civi court you have an excellent chance of getting the ticket reduced even further.

Now, if you were to drive carelessly and run into someone's fence, would you pay to make good the damage or would you fight their claim in the hope of getting the amount reduced?

It seems to me, if the ticket is legitimate, doing anything other than just paying it falls short of a reasonable standard of ethical behaviour.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote from HFXcrow,
10 clicks over the limit without a warning, gimme me a break

Yea thats right, next time someone fly's by your kids school or playground JUST 10 km over the limit just smile and say " aww, there's too many kids in this world anyway." : Putz.....

 

[ZipperHead]

Its a citizen's right to have his day in court/

Sure, if you feel the urge to tie up the judicial system with frivolous crap. IF you are innocent, fight it. If you are guilty, pay the fookin' ticket. Pretty radical, I know....

you sound to pusser not to salute

I suppose my point was lost. If I were to not salute, could I just say (at the charge parade, were it to come to that): "Who salutes officers anyways???". That would be a air-tight defence. There are rules, laws, regulations. Follow them at your leisure, but don't whine, snivel and cry when it comes time to pay the piper. The courts allow these things to be paid outside of the courtroom to free up court-time. The more lame-asses and loop-hole weiners that fight these things "because I can" only make it worse.

Plus, what the hell does "pusser" mean (I am too lazy to Google it right now). If you won't tell, here's one for you: SADSU.

Al

 

[NCRCrow]

Al:
Pusser:
a navy term that is a compliment for being above aboard and a good hand or sailor adhereing to the rules and setting a good example for others

Here is a quote:

"Pusser" a derivation of Purser, the supply/logistics hand, is an old yet current form of Naval slang used mostly in "Commonwealth" navies, those with strong operational, adminstrative or traditional ties to the British - Royal Navy, certainly in regular use in the Canadian Navy. Similar to the U.S. Army's use of the term "G.I." - Government Issue, anything issued by the Crown/government stores system may be referred to as Pusser. Something or someone(!), who appears to be "issue" may be refered to as "Pusser" as well. "His attitude was SO Pusser, it hurt."

what does SADSU mean..,,( lived up to my part)

 

[ZipperHead]

Suck a dick, straight up

A guy I know of used it once (never heard used before), and I have a certain affinity for it (especially, when you use it in acronym form, like SNAFU or BOHICA, as nobody gets it, so it's like an in-joke, and you certainly can beat the "harassment sniv's" who don't like any bad words used in the workplace......).

Pusser sounded a little too close to pussy, so I figured it was an insult.

Anyhoo, there it is.....

 

[NCRCrow]

no more compliments from me tonight, I have PDR's to finish (which means I should not be here)

Crow

 

[GO!!!]

Allan,

There are a number of websites devoted to ensuring that you receive a fair trial in traffic court, the most common of which has 32 questions to ask the issuing officer. These include questions on the calibration of his equipment, his training on said equipment, atmospheric conditions which could adversely affect his or the equipment's performance etc.

They are not frivolous, they are there to ensure that your rights as a citizen are protected against LE that may have made a mistake.

Also, the Canadian driver's handbook clearly states that you as a driver are to look at your speed every 8 seconds as part of your ongoing driving procedure. If your car is capable of accelerating 10km/h in the 8 seconds your eyes were on the road, this deserves consideration.

In addition to this, check over your ticket carefully. It sounds foolish, but if the Issuing Officer has made enough mistakes, the ticket can be quashed. A common one is placing a checkmark in the wrong box, indicating that you were charged under the wrong act/code.

Finally, in open court, ask the issuing officer how many tickets he wrote that day, and if he was instructed to issue a certain number. Many judges are remarkably unsympathetic to LE that writes 12 tickets in the space of an hour, all of whom are now fighting them in his/her courtroom.

None of these are foolproof, but the combination of aggressive questioning, the right questions, mistakes and the admission of using a quota system will often cause an LE to make a mistake, or admit one, resulting in justice being carried out, and you not being convicted. Of course, sometimes you will lose, but if the LE answered all of your questions to the judge's satisfaction, you deserve to.

It is never "frivolous" to go to court. It is an exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights, just like voting.

Good luck!

 

[ZipperHead]

I know that if I was facing a murder rap, I would fight it in court. There are certain things that don't merit wasting the court's time. A speeding ticket, where you are guilty, and you know it, but want to waste everybodies time doing so, is frivolous. Say what you want, but that is my opinion (and it appears, many others here.....)

The fact that there are websites that tell you how to "beat" a ticket doesn't impress me much. There are websites that tell pedophiles where to hunt for children, I'm sure. Doesn't make them right, now does it?!?!

I know that there are "countermeasures" to beating radar, photo-radar, whatever. Do I buy them (other than the radar-detector I had about 15 years ago, but I had to shit-can because they are banned in 99% of jurisdictions, it seems)???? No. I don't want to put my money into someone else's pocket for something that is there to beat systems that try to get people to slow the fook down. Law enforcement personnel are doing exactly that: enforcing laws that we, the people, want. Speed kills, we all know that. Excessive speed is a waste of fuel, which is why governments imposed certain speed limits during the oil crisis in the 70's.

I have heard/seen too many barrack-block lawyers, and the civy variants, go on about how to beat tickets: mail in a cheque for 50 cents over the fine, and "they" can't process it because it isn't the exact amount. Ask about the calibration of the radar gun (as you mentioned). Mail in a photo of the amount of the fine in cash (the best, urban legend no doubt) response from the police was a photo of a pair of handcuffs). And the list goes on.

Sure, fill your boots, take a day off work (if on the clock, it can cost you plenty) to fight the Man. I won't be there to stop you, nor will I be there to support you.

BTW, I am in the process of being investigated for harassment at work. I am "fighting" it, because I am innocent. I didn't bend over, and say thank you very much, Sir. There is a time and a place to take your stand against injustice. But, if I were guilty, I would have saved everybody the time (and believe me, there are many man-hours of work involved in this process) and said "Guilty, as charged" and taken my punishment. If you think that is being, well, whatever you want to call it, so be it. I have my own guidelines and principles that I follow. That's what allows me to sleep at night.

Al

 

[PViddy]

it is never "frivolous" to go to court. It is an exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights, just like voting.

well said.

PV

 

[MP 811]

Fight it hard....you might get a reduction......MP's get real nervous in Court

uhuh....................some of us actually didnt mind court.  Here's an idea, obey the freakin laws.

 

[Springroll]

You broke the law, now pay the fine. It is as simple as that.

 

[ZipperHead]

Here's (hopefully) my final say on all of this: for all of you that say "fight it in court", and that are leaders (or supervisors or managers, or whatever corporate-speak we use in the military today): when you have to recommend a soldier for disciplinary action (ie they were insubordinate to you, they assaulted you, they broke a regulation you hold near and dear, etc), you best be helping them fight it on a technicality. Show them how to beat the rap. I.e. when did you do your leadership training, and are you still current on all the QR&O's, DAOD's, CFAO's.... Did you read them their caution immediately, or did you shit on them first? Are there 415 witnesses, video evidence, and Notary Public signed documents to seal the deal???

I have seen soldier's get away with a lot because of this type of nausea, and it astounds me that we have come to this. So again, if you are so "for" sticking it to the Man, if you have a set of nuts, you will help the very soldiers that you want to see charged for whatever offense, because it would be only the "right" thing to do. If you would, or have, good for you. It shows that you have principles. If not, I thought as much (cough *lamer* cough).

Al

 

[MP 811]

Well put Allan Luomala.  I astounds me the advice thats been put out here.  MP's get real nervous in court, common, grow up.  Lets face it, if you did something that was wrong, suck it up, pay your dues and GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE.  I myself have received two parking tickets as of late.  And guess what, I PAID THEM!!  Yes, what a concept huh?? 

 

[George Wallace]

As you seem intent on going to Court, have you at anytime had that experience before?  What are you going to do when the Judge simply asks you "Were you speeding?  Yes or No."  No shades of grey.  No arguements.  Just 'Yes' or 'No'.  Your day in Court would then be approximately five minutes, after a couple of hours waiting, and only to be told that you have two months to pay the fine.

 

[GO!!!]

You will notice that the tone of my post was based on the idea of a fair trial and conviction, and not "getting off". How foolish would you feel if you paid the ticket, and later found out the MP had no formal trg on that particular model of radar/laser, and it had not been calibrated in 2 years, and now had a large margin of error.

You would have been improperly accused, and will reap the benefits of higher insurance, more demerits on your licence, and a less than spotless driver's abstract. And you just plead guilty, ensuring that the cycle will continue.

Also, are you wasting Revenue Canada's time by challenging a portion of your tax audit? Are you wasting the passport offices time by applying for a passport? Of course not. They are services that you pay for in the form of taxes to protect your rights, and you have every right to it.

Barrack block lawyers? The phrase originated in the 1950's, with the return of a good number of WW2 vets, who had vast experience in the military, and would routinely beat even the most minor (129) of charges, simply because the law was weak. When the laws were tightened up with the Defence judicial review in 195_, the ability of troops to beat these charges was significantly reduced, resulting in a higher proportion of successful charges and a comensurate improvement in discipline. SO. The barrack block lawyers provided the impetus for the cleaning up of a sloppy system, and we are better for it today.

Troops beat your charge? Well, you have one person to blame for that one. If you had done your job properly, he would have been convicted, but you did'nt, and he walked. I think this is the downside of an army of "thinking" soldiers - sometimes they will out think their leadership!

 

[Neill McKay]

You will notice that the tone of my post was based on the idea of a fair trial and conviction, and not "getting off". How foolish would you feel if you paid the ticket, and later found out the MP had no formal trg on that particular model of radar/laser, and it had not been calibrated in 2 years, and now had a large margin of error.

None of that matters if the individual knows he was speeding.

Also, are you wasting Revenue Canada's time by challenging a portion of your tax audit? Are you wasting the passport offices time by applying for a passport? Of course not. They are services that you pay for in the form of taxes to protect your rights, and you have every right to it.

Fighting a ticket when you know you did what you're accused of having done is quite different from fighting a bad ticket.  A legitimate use of government services is one thing, but using them to avoid paying a debt that you clearly owe is quite another.