Toronto tests response to terrorist attacks

[Bruce Monkhouse]

GNR<
Methinks you need to read whatever they call "aid to the civil power" nowadays.

 

[Slim]

GNR

Lose the attitude and play nice. The people you're speaking to are not untrained privates or civvie wannabees. They're soldiers who have BTDT.

Keep that in mind please.

Slim

 

[GNR]

Sorry, didn't realise it sounded like I was giving attitude, I was shocked at the response I was getting and figured maybe I misunderstanding, so I was attempting to clarify.  I made the joke about coffee to try to lighten the situation a bit.  Obviously I am not a comedian.

I meant no disrespect to the civy services, they have a job and do it extremely well, but terrorism is a war like scenario, something WE do well.

I posted the same question I asked to the civilians in the office

"If there was a terrorist attack on Canadian soil would you expect the CF to respond or leave it in the hands of the police, firefighters and EMS?"
They ALL responded the same way.
"YES!"

I guess that is why I find it even more shocking that members of the CF feel that they don't need to be there.  The civy streets expects you to be there.

 

[Slim]

GNR

Believe it or not the emergency services on civvy street have all of the gear required to deal with an incident of this nature. Furthermore it is able to deploy faster that the CF's parralel services.

As for the legal side...Terrorists are not soldiers. They are criminal in the eyes of the law and should be dealt with as such.

 

[GNR]

I have seen most of the kit and training that the civy services have, and I am not saying we should replace them.
I simply feel that we should be part of the anti-terrorism effort here in Canada.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Speculation, but I would have to say we are, but not at any amount you and I [or Joe Public] will ever know about untill it happens....

 

[George Wallace]

"If there was a terrorist attack on Canadian soil would you expect the CF to respond or leave it in the hands of the police, firefighters and EMS?"
They ALL responded the same way.
"YES!"

I guess that is why I find it even more shocking that members of the CF feel that they don't need to be there.   The civy streets expects you to be there.

Just to add....Members of the CF, personally would like to be there to do as you say, but due to the series of "Checks and Balances" placed on us legislatively we can not.  If we were a Third World Nation, we may be prone to a Military Coupe.  These Checks and Balances placed on us, even if we may be a Third World Armed Forces,  ;D by our government require us to go through all the 'Hoops' before moving.  

As stated by you, your question to your civie friends and their response, shows their lack of knowledge about our military.  Not their fault completely, but of Canadian Society as a whole.  Our Public have no idea of what an Armed Force is for.  Print out what Gen Hillier said and really shock them....We are not Public Civil Servants....We are an Army....We don't train for PeaceKeeping....We train to kill.

 

[Slim]

I have seen most of the kit and training that the civy services have, and I am not saying we should replace them.
I simply feel that we should be part of the anti-terrorism effort here in Canada.

Granted, but the first response must ALWAYS be the civilian police.

 

[George Wallace]

Speculation, but I would have to say we are, but not at any amount you and I [or Joe Public] will ever know about untill it happens....

Actually....if we do our jobs right....no one in the public will know.

 

[GNR]

George, your right the Civy world really has no idea what and who we are....yes we train to kill, and that includes terrorists on our soil.

And absolutely Slim, the first response must always be the civilian police, firefighters and EMS.  Any effort by the CF would be to augment them.

 

[Slim]

And absolutely Slim, the first response must always be the civilian police, firefighters and EMS.   Any effort by the CF would be to augment them.

That is very doable and very possible..Rememeber the FLQ crisis? and OKA...If things get bad enough then in we go.

 

[Michael OLeary]

And absolutely Slim, the first response must always be the civilian police, firefighters and EMS.  Any effort by the CF would be to augment them.

Which bring us back to the CF role as defined by the National Counter-Terrorism Plan, although, admittedly, it's been a few years since I needed to have a copy on my desk.

Despite what your co-workers might think when imagining violence as a principal component of "terrorist activities", there are other actions defined as such that would have no clear role for CF involvement in countering:

http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/operat/ct_e.html

Most terrorist activities in Canada are in support of actions elsewhere linked to homeland conflicts. These activities include providing a convenient base for terrorist supporters and may involve using the refugee stream to enter Canada, or immigrant smuggling. In recent years, terrorists from different international terrorist organizations have come to Canada posing as refugees. Other activities include:

    * fund-raising;
    * lobbying through front organizations;
    * providing support for terrorist operations in Canada or abroad;
    * procuring weapons and materiel;
    * coercing and manipulating immigrant communities;
    * facilitating transit to and from the United States and other countries; and
    * other illegal activities.

 

[Slim]

fund-raising;
    * lobbying through front organizations;
    * providing support for terrorist operations in Canada or abroad;
    * procuring weapons and materiel;
    * coercing and manipulating immigrant communities;
    * facilitating transit to and from the United States and other countries; and
    * other illegal activities.

Good point Mike

All of whcih are supposed to be dealt with my provincial, municiple and federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies (yes we have them and CSIS is just one of the several available)

 

[paracowboy]

it's pretty straight-forward: we weren't called because it's not our role.

I'm sure that the appropriate National agencies (including the CF) were CAX-ing or TEWT-ing it up all over the place, not to mention AAR-ing their pants off (at least I hope so. If we weren't in there, at some level, it's gonna be tricky to co-ord ourselves into a real scenario.), but we weren't playing, because it ain't our sand-box.

 

[GNR]

Now we are getting somewhere.....I realise it isn't our sandbox, but we are expected to participate if things go BAD, wouldn't it have been good for recruiting and public image to have been part of the recent test in TO?

Most training is near worst case scenario, if we are the last effort it would have been good to show it.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm sure that the appropriate National agencies (including the CF) were CAX-ing or TEWT-ing it up all over the place, not to mention AAR-ing their pants off (at least I hope so. If we weren't in there, at some level, it's gonna be tricky to co-ord ourselves into a real scenario.), but we weren't playing, because it ain't our sand-box.

They do, and we are in there.

 

[Slim]

Now we are getting somewhere.....I realise it isn't our sandbox, but we are expected to participate if things go BAD, wouldn't it have been good for recruiting and public image to have been part of the recent test in TO?

Most training is near worst case scenario, if we are the last effort it would have been good to show it.

Sure...would've been lovely...But rememebr that there is only so much media to go around...And all those other agencies get budget help though stuff like this. The CF is not required at that level.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
Most training is near worst case scenario, if we are the last effort it would have been good to show it

Why?...so EVERYONE could see it?
You really didn't pay attention to George's rebuttal to my post did you?   Go back and read it....

 

[paracowboy]

Now we are getting somewhere.....I realise it isn't our sandbox, but we are expected to participate if things go BAD, wouldn't it have been good for recruiting and public image to have been part of the recent test in TO?

in a situation like this, the Recruiting problems of the CF are nowhere near the top of the list for the other agencies. I doubt that the municipal high muck-a-mucks give a rat's hiney about our image. They have other concerns, and our budget isn't one of them.

They're running a prudent test to potentially save lives. We don't even begin to factor.

They do, and we are in there.

good to hear. Then, our participation is covered.

 

[Slim]

Can I go home now?