The Modern Warrior’s Combat Load

[daftandbarmy]

The Modern Warrior’s Combat Load

http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

Interesting. Too bad they never include fitenss levels as a success factor in any of these studies. Young, strong, fit people can always carry more stuff and slay more bad guys than people like me  ;D

I guess it's the negative influence of the PC police.

 

[OldSolduer]

I will read this......looks interesting.

 

[MedCorps]

Also worth reading on this topic:

Another US publication: Load Carriage in Military Operations: A Review of Historical, Physiological, Biomechanical, and Medical Aspects (2010)

http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/other_pub/LoadCarriagePDF.pdf

Enjoy,

MC

 

[OldSolduer]

The amazing thing - the body armour and helmet are already how heavy? That is BEFORE you take into account ammo, water, rats......

 

[PPCLI Guy]

The amazing thing - the body armour and helmet are already how heavy? That is BEFORE you take into account ammo, water, rats......

And the empty weight of the new rucksack....

 

[OldSolduer]

And the empty weight of the new rucksack....

I think the average load a soldier can comfortably carry is about 1/3 of body weight or so I have read somewhere. Yet we insist on having soldiers pack a house on their backs,,,,,,

 

[PPCLI Guy]

My carrying capacity is therefore increasing every year...

 

[Infanteer]

I think the average load a soldier can comfortably carry is about 1/3 of body weight or so I have read somewhere. Yet we insist on having soldiers pack a house on their backs,,,,,,

That's actually a number I've seen in a scientific study of load bearing that I read in the Marine Corps Gazette.

In my opinion, the killer is the PPE; I actually didn't wear much in Afghanistan.  My LBE (webbing style) and a daybag; carrying rucks is (or should) generally be considered an admin movement unless one is deliberately avoiding contact (e.g. LRP).  It was the body armour that was the killer, accounting for most of the weight.  Following closely behind was the water one had to carry.  Radio weight (generally batteries) and ammo was a close third).

 

[infant]

I think the average load a soldier can comfortably carry is about 1/3 of body weight or so I have read somewhere. Yet we insist on having soldiers pack a house on their backs,,,,,,

Maybe you read it here:
www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol.../CAJ_Vol12.1_08_e.pdfSimilar
page 62:

The Canadian infantry manual (volume 3) specifi es that a soldier can carry 35% of
his or her own body weight and still maintain a high percentage of agility, stamina and
mobility.13 When the load exceeds 45% of body weight, functional ability drops rapidly. For
an average soldier (i.e. 80 kg) these limits correspond to 28 kg and 36 kg respectively. The
British Army’s APRE (Army Personnel Research Establishment) has conducted trials that
concluded that the economical load for a fi t soldier is approximately 30% of his or her body
weight and that the maximum marching load is approximately 45%

 

[MJP]

Yet we insist on having soldiers pack a house on their backs,,,,,,

We also as leaders sometimes are not ruthless enough in ensuring our guys aren't carrying useless crap either.  I agree with Infanteer that PPE is the largest burden though. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

I sent this article to a guy I know with (unlike me) lots and lots of combat experience. Good reply!:

"Lots of lists. Which is typical. Ninety pages to work out the average grunt has sixty to seventy pounds on his back as a minimum. Now there's a surprise.

And frankly why each guy has to have night vision and a cleaning kit is a unquestioned mystery. (Especially considering how only one man at a time should be cleaning his weapon.) Plus all that gadgetry they drape on the rifle. And as to knee and elbow pads, Oakleys, ear plugs, two MREs (for one day out)...

(Why the medic is also carrying a BP cuff and stethoscope is a mystery. If you can't recognize shock without these things he shouldn't be a medic. He's also carrying 2 liters of  normal saline vs one liter of Hetastarch, which is actually out there now. But never mind.)

They even admit towards the end that a quarter to a third of the weight always carried is armor and helmet. And how it's largely the weight and unbreathability of this stuff that leads to the ridiculous amount of water that has to be brought along.

And despite acknowledging this, there's absolutely no discussion of the possibility of just not wearing this crap. None. But they do think robot mules are a good idea.

Sigh. We're doomed."

 

[Robert0288]

Until the robot breaks, then you have to carry all of its stuff + the robot.  And the additional 40 lbs of batteries which the soldier will have to carry to keep the robot moving.

 

[OldSolduer]

We also as leaders sometimes are not ruthless enough in ensuring our guys aren't carrying useless crap either.  I agree with Infanteer that PPE is the largest burden though.

That is correct as well. Priority of loads should be ammo, water, rations then pers kit.

I love kit lists put out by pers too high up in the chain, especially when we are expected to drag toboggans half way across the trg area.

 

[a_majoor]

Just to put this in some sort of perspective, soldiers have been carrying 30-35 kg of "kit" for thousands of years. Greek Hoplites had tht amount of bronze armour, shield and weapons (and generally a slave to help them carry it and put it all on prior to battle). The Roman milites carried a similar amount, including chain mail or segmented armour, pioneer tools, rations and water canteen. Knights and men at arms in the middle ages had similar loads (and men at arms generally had no horses and fought on foot).

The only exceptional period seems to be the 500 years between the large scale adoption of gunpowder weapons and WWI, where PPE essentially vanished from the battlefield. By WWI, soldiers were again carrying huge amounts of "kit"; we have all read about British soldiers going "over the top" with up to 80 lbs of equipment, ammunition, rations etc.

Perhaps the introduction of superstrong synthetic materials and highly capable mini computers/communication devices rivalling the size and shape of an iPhone will reverse the trend (but then again we could be in the situation where I started: When I was a private I carried 100lbs of really heavy stuff. Now with modern technology I carry 100 lbs of reallylight stuff....)

 

[daftandbarmy]

When I was a private I carried 100lbs of really heavy stuff. Now with modern technology I carry 100 lbs of reallylight stuff....)

Fantastic  :rofl:

 

[Farmboy]

Hense why you now see a shift from manufacturers from double layered 1000 weight cordura to new materials for pouches, rigs, packs etc.

Cut down ounces on each pouch, each item carried and suddenly you start cutting large amounts of weight on the entire soldier.

 

[PuckChaser]

Hense why you now see a shift from manufacturers from double layered 1000 weight cordura to new materials for pouches, rigs, packs etc.

Are the new materials just as durable in your experience? I'd hate to save a few ounces only to have a pouch rip off in combat.

 

[Farmboy]

Are the new materials just as durable in your experience?

Yes.

 

[Armymedic]

Reduce the weight even further by not allowing everyone to wear 4-8 different morale patches all over their body

 

[JaY_III]

Reduce the weight even further by not allowing everyone to wear 4-8 different morale patches all over their body

The stupid thing is some times you are made to take them off even at a FOB.
I had a BC Flag on the center of my Armour on the lower Velcro I had to remove.
It was always covered under my rig when we went out, so i don't get why it had to be moved.

I can get the Major League Gun Fighter ones and such that are on the outside as they are not professional.