The Khadr Thread

[KJK]

Yes, write the letter but at the bottom put "P.S. I don't mean it and I don't want him back!"

KJK

 

[George Wallace]

Anyone find a few glaring flaws in Justice O'Reilly's  Judgment?

REASONS FOR JUDGMENT AND JUDGMENT
[1] Mr. Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen, was arrested in Afghanistan in July 2002 when he was
15 years old. He is alleged to have thrown a grenade that caused the death of a U.S. soldier. He has
been imprisoned at Guantánamo Bay since October 2002 awaiting trial on serious charges: murder,
conspiracy and support of terrorism.
Page: 2
[2] Mr. Khadr challenges the refusal of the Canadian Government to seek his repatriation to
Canada. He claims that his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (sections 6, 7
and 12) have been infringed and seeks a remedy under s. 24(1) of the Charter. More particularly,
Mr. Khadr asks me to quash the decision of the respondents not to seek his return to Canada and
order the respondents to request the United States Government to repatriate him. Mr. Khadr also
asks me to overturn the respondents’ decision on the grounds that it was unreasonable and taken in
bad faith. Finally, Mr. Khadr seeks further disclosure of documents in the respondents’ possession.

Ummmmm!

When did Canada have jurisdiction over 'Acts' that took place outside of Canada's 'Boundaries'?

When did Canadian Law have precedence over the Law of a Foreign Jurisdiction?

Mr Khadr allegedly committed this 'Act' on Foreign Soil and is being held by a Foreign Government to face that Governments Legal Process.  Mr Khadr has not been on Canadian soil or in any way fallen under Canadian jurisdiction for any time, shortly before and since, allegedly committing the crime for which he is incarcerated and being tried for. 

I could see the judgment being made had Mr Khadr's alledged actions taken place on lands falling under Canadian 'sovereignty', but they did not.

If this is the Justice's opinion, then perhaps he would like to go to Saudi Arabia and bring back the two Canadian brothers accused, tried and sentenced to death for a school yard fight resulting in the death of a fellow student and member of a mob who attacked them.

Is it also fitting that this has come out of a Court in British Columbia?  Why not a Court in Toronto, where the Khadr family resides?

[Edit.....What a "Read"]

Justice O'Reilly released this Judgment in Vancouver, BC on 23 Apr 2009.  The actual Hearings were in Toronto, on 28 Oct 2008.  Forty pages of Judgment separate the Vancouver date from the Hearing date in Toronto (found at the very end on page 42.)

 

[ModlrMike]

I would suggest that the Government respond by stating that they will consider Mr Kadr's request once his current legal troubles are resolved. Such a response would be consistent with the treatment of other Canadians accused of crimes in other jurisdictions. To my mind there are three reasonable outcomes:

a. try him by the aggrieved party (US);
b. try him in his country of origin (Canada); or
c. try him where the crime was committed (Afghanistan).

In any event, I feel the Government is under no obligation to lobby for his repatriation until his guilt or innocence is established.

 

[Rinker]

Well put ModlrMike

But in my opinion I think he is guilty (very bias), and I don't want him back in our cushy jails. But hey we have courts and judges etc for reason.

 

[George Wallace]

I would suggest that the Government respond by stating that they will consider Mr Kadr's request once his current legal troubles are resolved. Such a response would be consistent with the treatment of other Canadians accused of crimes in other jurisdictions. To my mind there are three reasonable outcomes:

a. try him by the aggrieved party (US);
b. try him in his country of origin (Canada); or
c. try him where the crime was committed (Afghanistan).

In any event, the I feel the Government is under no obligation to lobby for his repatriation until his guilt or innocence is established.

I would say that your second sentence disqualifies option 2. 

Although born in Canada, he was living in Pakistan and allegedly fighting in Afghanistan where he was captured.  Let the Americans try him, as they captured him, gave him medical aid and are detaining him on their sovereign soil.  That, or send him back to Afghanistan to face the Legal System there.  Canada has 'nothing on him' other than his place of Birth.  Everything else in reference to this case is 'outside of Canada and Canadian jurisdiction' in the hands of a "Foreign Judicial System". 

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone comes forward with the statement that after 911 he, along with his father and brother, had renounced their Canadian Citizenship, and that only now that he is being detained, is he crying for Canada to save him, a Canadian Citizen.

 

[George Wallace]

Justice O'Reilly's Judgment makes me wonder.  Has Canada's Legal System let us down.  When we look at it closely, forget about the Charter of Human Rights and Freedom of Speech and all the Civil and other Laws and Precedence; what does our Legal System really represent?  Does it honestly present a fair and equal ruling according to the Laws of the Land to the everyday citizen; or is it in reality a stage by which egos pontificate in debates for the sole glory of defeating their opponent in a debate, the Law be damned.

 

[OldSolduer]

Please bring this poor misunderstood lad home. THEN DEPORT HIM AND HIS TERRORIST FAMILY TO PAKISTAN, if they love it so much. Maybe he will rejoin his thug brethern and our guys can have a second chance at his hide.
Rant ends...out! :rage:

 

[ModlrMike]

I would say that your second sentence disqualifies option 2. 

I agree, which is why I put in the codicil at the end. In retrospect, I should probably had that as option 3, with (not likely) appended to it.

 

[geo]

Mr. Khadr challenges the refusal of the Canadian Government to seek his repatriation to
Canada. He claims that his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (sections 6, 7
and 12) have been infringed:

Section Six of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is the section of that protects the mobility rights of Canadian citizens. By mobility rights, the section refers to the individual practice of entering and exiting Canada, and moving within its boundaries.

... can't be violating his rights - cause he isn't in Canada and left the country of his own free will with his father .  That he is stuck in another country should not make a difference.... Nope, no infringment here.

Section Seven of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a constitutional provision that protects an individual's autonomy and personal legal rights from actions of the government. This Charter provision provides both substantive and procedural rights. It has broad application beyond merely protecting due process in administrative proceedings and in the adjudicative context, and has in certain circumstances touched upon major national policy issues such as entitlement to social assistance and public health care. As such, it has proven to be a controversial provision in the Charter.

Protection from action by the government...... well, the Canadian government is doing nothing other than waiting for the US government to follow due process.... nope, no real infringment here either.

Section Twelve of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as part of the Charter and of the Constitution of Canada, is a legal rights section that protects an individual's freedom from cruel and unusual punishments in Canada.

  Nope, no cruel and unusual punishment in Canada... he isn't in Canada.

All this to say that the Articles quoted by the Judge don't work for most Canadians - and certainly does not impress Mr Harper. 

That having been said, I really & truly would hope / wish that the US special tribunal would get it's thumb out & get going on this trial - Get 'er done & get 'er over with.

 

[Shec]

Please bring this poor misunderstood lad home. THEN DEPORT HIM AND HIS TERRORIST FAMILY TO PAKISTAN, if they love it so much. Maybe he will rejoin his thug brethern and our guys can have a second chance at his hide.
Rant ends...out! :rage:

But, before we do that charge them under the Foreign Enlistment Act,  sentence them to the max., and then deport them upon release. 

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-28/index.html

 

[geo]

Anyone notice what happened in the states this week.

There is / was a Italian "Don" who emigrated from Canada to the US (with Green card) when he was 15 yrs of age.  Most recently heading a multi milion dollar business AND a New York/ new Jersey crime family - he was convicted .... and put on a plane back to Montreal....

 

[ModlrMike]

The problem with removing the Kadr's from Canada is that they're not all naturalized citizens. Some are Canadian by birth. I don't know if there is any legal ability to strip a person of his citizenship thus rendering him stateless, as would be the case with Omar.

 

[PMedMoe]

Commentary by Greg Watson in the Ottawa Sun
Article Link

Read the commentary and form your own opinions, however, I would like to point out this "tidbit":

For his part, Omar Khadr was nabbed by American forces in Afghanistan after a firefight in which he allegedly killed a U.S. army medic with a grenade.

Those allegations having been seriously challenged by conflicting evidence -- some of it points to possible friendly fire as the culprit -- Harper's PR department has now trotted out some old footage supposedly showing Omar the bomb-maker.

The brilliant idea behind the video is apparently to convince Canadians of limited IQ that Khadr -- at about the age most kids are in Grade 8 -- was personally responsible for making the roadside explosives years ago that killed another Canadian soldier last week. Right.

Is he implying that kids in Grade 8 would not be intelligent enough to make IEDs?  I guess that could be true, if they have "limited" IQs.  :

 

[George Wallace]

Commentary by Greg Watson in the Ottawa Sun
Article Link
Is he implying that kids in Grade 8 would not be intelligent enough to make IEDs?  I guess that could be true, if they have "limited" IQs.  :

You may have to read that aloud to yourself and put in all the pauses in the correct places.  He is saying that it is a simple example beign put forward to Canadians with Limited IQs (not Khadr) who will withness Khadr at a young age, the same age where most Canadians are in Grade 8, as he (Khadr) is making bombs (not low IQ Canadians).  Although, there have been instances where Low IQ people have blown themselves up, but those are usually found in the Darwin Awards.

 

[X-mo-1979]

At age 8 I could shoot a shotgun with two eyes open and hit the target everytime.Why?My father taught me.Sure the average Canadian kid couldnt because they were not taught.

Children imitate who they look up to.His father was a terrorist and so was he.

 

[Sythen]

When I was in grade 6, a friend of mine was the first person I knew with the internet.. As soon as he got it, we printed off the anarchists cook book and started making things cause it was 'cool' to do.. We knew exactly what we were doing to those garbage bins and mail boxes..

Being young is no excuse.

 

[PMedMoe]

You may have to read that aloud to yourself and put in all the pauses in the correct places.  He is saying that it is a simple example beign put forward to Canadians with Limited IQs (not Khadr) who will withness Khadr at a young age, the same age where most Canadians are in Grade 8, as he (Khadr) is making bombs (not low IQ Canadians).  Although, there have been instances where Low IQ people have blown themselves up, but those are usually found in the Darwin Awards.

George, I did read it.  Several times.  The whole commentary.  What Watson is implying is that Harper's video is fake and that Khadr (being about the age of a Grade 8 kid at the time) was not responsible for making bombs.  Never mind the remark about low IQs, except that he also implies that only those with low IQs would believe the video.

Try this:

"Those allegations having been seriously challenged by conflicting evidence -- some of it points to possible friendly fire as the culprit -- Harper's PR department has now trotted out some old footage supposedly showing Omar the bomb-maker.

The brilliant (sarcasm) idea behind the video is apparently to convince Canadians of limited IQ that Khadr -- at about the age most kids are in Grade 8 -- was personally responsible for making the roadside explosives years ago that killed another Canadian soldier last week. Right (more sarcasm)."

 

[Rinker]

This really should have nothing to do with us. He left fair and square. Did some bad things and got caught. Sure he WAS a Canadian. But honestly to have some go to war against us (I'm sure if it were Canadians killed there might have been less backlash about the whole issue) kill our allies, then want to come back to our protection and seek medical care from us taxpayers that also pay taxes to fry his type. That is just so ridiculous, I don't even know how to put how stupid it is. We spend money to kill him, now we try to get him back to protect him. I would understand the medical a little more if he was in our country as a POW.

 

[wannabe SF member]

I would understand the medical a little more if he was in our country as a POW.

Where's his uniform, rank, unit and serial number. He's not a POW, for that you have to be a soldier.
As far as I'm concerned, he's a civvy who commited murder as well as a terrorist.

Prosecute him and lock him away for good :rage:

 

[Rinker]

Yea I know, but I would give him medical as if he were a legit POW. After that lock'em up as a war criminal. Treat him as spy I don't care as long as he never gets back on the streets.