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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

Kind of an interesting one; some resident geniuses in Calgary 3D printing guns. I'm assuming they have some stock components for the barrels etc that are still metal.

Cue the reactionaries that want to further restrict things, vice simply enforcing existing laws that already make this illegal.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-police-3d-printed-guns-shootings-1.6562076

3D gun printing operation busted in Calgary, police lay dozens of charges​

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Officers have seized 1,229 firearms this year as city shooting incidents spike​

CBC News · Posted: Aug 25, 2022 12:38 PM MT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

calgary-police-3d-guns.jpg

Acting Staff Sgt. Ben Lawson displays some of the 3D printed guns seized this year by Calgary police at a news conference on Thursday. (Rebecca Kelly/CBC)


Calgary police have laid 66 charges against two men who they believe were 3D printing and trafficking guns in the city.

Last week, Brandon Vincent-Wagner, 24, and Justin Kumar, 27, were arrested and charged with multiple counts related to unlawful production, trafficking and possession of firearms following a police investigation that started in November 2020.

"3D printed firearms are a growing trend that we are working to address through targeted enforcement," said Acting Staff Sgt. Ben Lawson at a Thursday news conference.

So far this year, the Calgary Police Service has seized 1,229 firearms. More than 300 were crime guns: firearms that were used in crimes or unlawfully stored or possessed.

Nine per cent of the crime guns seized this year were homemade or 3D printed firearms. Police say that is a significant increase compared with previous years. Lawson said that in 2020, when the firearms investigative unit was founded, police seized one or two homemade guns, while this year they seized about 15.


calgary-police-3d-printed-gun.jpg

Calgary police say the number of 3D printed or homemade guns they've seized this year is on the rise compared with previous years. (Rebecca Kelly/CBC)
On Wednesday, the province announced it will provide $5.2 million in grants to support programs that prevent crime and keep communities safe. The announcement came as Calgary has seen an uptick in gun violence over the past weeks.

There have been 97 shootings in the city so far this year, almost double of what it saw by this time in 2021, according to police.

3D printed guns a global problem, CPS says​

Lawson said 3D firearms function in the same way that regular guns do, and the increased use and production of 3D printed guns is a global problem. While the officer said it's not necessarily easy to obtain 3D printed firearms, some materials needed to make them are not difficult to buy, including a 3D printer and the necessary filament.

Drawings needed to make 3D printed firearms are also more common now online, Lawson said.

"They used to be all only on the dark web because it was more of a nefarious activity. And now in lots of countries where you can legally print your own private firearm … which is illegal in Canada, it is becoming more prevalent to obtain those types of documents on the internet," he said.

The investigation into Vincent-Wagner and Kumar's firearm production operation included a search in May of residences in the 2600 block of Dover Ridge Drive S.E. and the 4300 block of Seton Drive S.E., according to a Thursday news release.


3d-gun-calgary-police.jpg

Lawson says the increased use and production of 3D printed guns is a global problem. (Rebecca Kelly/CBC)
Officers seized several items from the search, including three 3D printers, five complete 3D printed Glock-style handguns with magazines, other firearm parts, ammunition and drugs.

Through forensic analysis, police have linked a separate 3D printed firearm seized this May to the Vincent-Wagner and Kumar's firearm production operation, the release said.

Vincent-Wagner and Kumar are set to appear in court late next month.
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Yesterday, IPSC Ontario sent out a good breakdown of what's required today to take your legally owned Canadian-registered handgun OUTCAN for competitions and, more importantly, to bring it back to Canada. In short, you now need to jump through additional hoops to obtain an import permit to bring your handgun back into Canada. The process is relatively easy and quick (for now) and will add about $20 to your overall match costs. But, one must plan ahead and have all their ducks in a row before applying.
 
Haggis said:
Yesterday, IPSC Ontario sent out a good breakdown of what's required today to take your legally owned Canadian-registered handgun OUTCAN for competitions and, more importantly, to bring it back to Canada. In short, you now need to jump through additional hoops to obtain an import permit to bring your handgun back into Canada. The process is relatively easy and quick (for now) and will add about $20 to your overall match costs. But, one must plan ahead and have all their ducks in a row before applying.
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Death by 1000 cuts. I am still waiting for some handgun transfers from a few months ago. BS that a legally required process isn’t manned enough to be even remotely efficient.
 
I don't know how many RCMP are in Alberta. Alberta is moving to a provincial force. Most of those RCMP should be enough to pump up the CFOs to where they are somewhat efficient and can move a file slightly faster than a glacier.🙄😁
 
Fishbone Jones said:
I don't know how many RCMP are in Alberta. Alberta is moving to a provincial force. Most of those RCMP should be enough to pump up the CFOs to where they are somewhat efficient and can move a file slightly faster than a glacier.🙄😁
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The Firearms program is almost entirely divorced from the operational RCMP, and its a damned shame the RCMP allows such a wasteful and useless program tarnish its already fading reputation. The only real cross over is the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team, who assist investigators in firearms related investigations. A group of SME's if you will.

I can assure you even if every municipal and provincially employed Mountie in Alberta was reassigned to new duties tomorrow, none of them would end up processing paper in Miramichi. That's a Maritime welfare program run by the feds to prod along employment, and the RCMP is desperately short of actual cops in literally every other location.
 
RedFive said:
The Firearms program is almost entirely divorced from the operational RCMP, and its a damned shame the RCMP allows such a wasteful and useless program tarnish its already fading reputation. The only real cross over is the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team, who assist investigators in firearms related investigations. A group of SME's if you will.

I can assure you even if every municipal and provincially employed Mountie in Alberta was reassigned to new duties tomorrow, none of them would end up processing paper in Miramichi. That's a Maritime welfare program run by the feds to prod along employment, and the RCMP is desperately short of actual cops in literally every other location.
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So it seems to me there are very good reasons to support the Surrey transition and the Alberta Provincial Police initiative. The Quebec and Ontario example seems to be functioning, so I don't understand why there is such opposition to that. The surplus RCMP from Surrey and Alberta who would rather remain mounties could then be used to backfill all of those understaffed GD locations wherever they may be. Seems like a win for everyone.

Redfive, do you know the general feelings of the RCMP membership in Alberta about the APP initiative?
 
QV said:
So it seems to me there are very good reasons to support the Surrey transition and the Alberta Provincial Police initiative. The Quebec and Ontario example seems to be functioning, so I don't understand why there is such opposition to that. The surplus RCMP from Surrey and Alberta who would rather remain mounties could then be used to backfill all of those understaffed GD locations wherever they may be. Seems like a win for everyone.

Redfive, do you know the general feelings of the RCMP membership in Alberta about the APP initiative?
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The Surete, OPP grew over time. That’s why it was successful, the Surrey transition is about 500 members behind and can’t get their own vehicles.

Replacing forces nowadays is a humongous undertaking, and the RNC is a good example- because they started trying to expand themselves in the 90s and kept hitting logistical walls- and they are orders of magnitude smaller,

Before I left Alberta I was on the outer periphery of the APP stuff you’re seeing in the news right now. I won’t say the governments stance then- but this “plan” was shown with some minor differences. At the time it was given back as a plan we had already explored- hubs etc- and was determined to be unworkable- we had tried it other places and other times and on a smaller scale it wasn’t working, so on a divisional scale it was absurd.

The Alberta governments “plan” relies on making people live places they don’t want to live, for longer periods- just because they say so.

They can’t even fill the sheriff seats in these places on a micro scale.

In the end- when they transition they ll take lots of Mounties that want to stay home, I’ll probably lateral in whatever scheme they propose for my position level. But it won’t survive contact as designed.

I would have the RCMP out of all contract policing. But it has to be done in phases. In my present province I deal with this on a smaller scale with some quasi-provincial agencies. When the bills start coming in the governments balk. Because we are way cheaper than the fix. WAY. Not even including salaries.

So, there are provinces where the RCMP does all court security and inter hospital mental health transport. So there are no systems ready to truly deal with the unintended consequence of the absence of Mounties- municipal and provincial agencies won’t take those tastings (rightfully) so right away there is a vacuum- as an example. There are numerous other federal functions and provincial functions that are written in provincial statutes that ask for Mounties- specifically. Not police officers.

This can be changed- but the heads of other forces then renegotiate positions immediately. More cost. Or the creation of a new agency.

The Alberta plan also creates regional forces and municipal forces where they don’t want the APP, so there’s nuance there too,

The plan, as presented to Albertans is juvenile. Like crayons on construction paper juvenile.
 
QV said:
So it seems to me there are very good reasons to support the Surrey transition and the Alberta Provincial Police initiative. The Quebec and Ontario example seems to be functioning, so I don't understand why there is such opposition to that. The surplus RCMP from Surrey and Alberta who would rather remain mounties could then be used to backfill all of those understaffed GD locations wherever they may be. Seems like a win for everyone.

Redfive, do you know the general feelings of the RCMP membership in Alberta about the APP initiative?
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I can't speak personally to Alberta, but if its anything like Surrey there will be a large group who badges over immediately in order to preserve some semblance of certainty for their future, another group who make the decision once more facts are known, there will be the group that feels like they've been/are going to be screwed by the RCMP and badge over out of spite, and the people who want to stay with the RCMP. I cant say for sure because I don't have the official numbers but I would say a third of Surrey Detachment left, and likely a full 90-95% of SPS is former RCMP.

To bring that back to my comment, if you scale this up from a city to a Province, IE "ok well I can't work in this city when this is done but I can work in the next one over", moving an entire Province is not the same. I suspect were this to go through, the RCMP would not retain even a quarter of the members in the Province. Where the extra bodies would come from for the APP to make up that extra quarter plus all the extra positions that have been promised for rural policing? Good luck. Nobody can recruit these days because nobody wants to be a cop. Even when you're the highest paying and newest police force on the block.
 
This breakdown isnt bad-

dailyhive.com

Surrey Police is now BC's third largest municipal police department | News

Over the span of just 18 months, Surrey Police Service (SPS) has grown from one employee to a total of 275 employees.
dailyhive.com dailyhive.com

This is years into the transition. They have 250 police officers.

And the transition will happen- there is a weird belief out there it won’t or it will collapse. I don’t believe that will be allowed. It would have policing repercussions across the country,
 
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