A
aesop081
Guest
elderly2 said:
:rofl:
:rofl:
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elderly2 said:
Don't forget there is also THE LEGION OF FRONTIERSMEN OF THE COMMONWEALTH Canada, a fine bunch, indeed.
dileas
tess
A
aesop081
Guest
elderly2 said:
http://www.pharmacy-online.ca/
Don't be shy.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Rabble has been down a day or two so their enlightened dramatis personae are just having a little fun.
For those of you with actual depression issues wanting to join the CF is admirable but it's not a good way for you to prove you can "do it". Long hours, very stressful conditions. Sometimes disgusting conditions, I'll just throw it out there and say picking up body parts. Little or bad food at times. No sleep. getting moved across the country away from your family. A culture that makes it fairly easy to get caught up with alcohol.
Really mentally and physically challenging stuff
Would you apply to a job at a casino if you had a gambling problem? Or a liquor store if you had a drinking problem?
I'm not saying the CF causes depression but you'll be exposed to a lot more depressors and emotionally charging issues than in most other jobs.
If you have issues with depression take a long and serious look at why you want to join. The military isn't a good place to get better, we're having a hard time helping people who develop problems- let alone joining with them.
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So they're upping their meds to deal with the loss and posting here? Great. :blotto:ObedientiaZelum said:
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Hey people,
I'm planning on applying to the CF this May. I'm 23. I took antidepressants when I was 19 for a few months for social anxiety/situational depression. After that I went a few years with no medication, no doctor visits, as it was all situational
and really just a bad time in my life. Then this August my life fell apart after losing my job and my family Was concerned so they called the police on me and I was admitted as an in patient in the mental health ward of a hospital for 3 days because I self harmed as a coping device.
The doctor who saw me there did not diagnose me with any mental illness and said it was all situational.
Basically I've had some hard times financially and with my.family that lead to situational bouts of depression. I've since gotten my life together and I'm not on any meds. It really was just some bad phases. Does my history seem like it would stop be from joining?
I'm planning on applying to the CF this May. I'm 23. I took antidepressants when I was 19 for a few months for social anxiety/situational depression. After that I went a few years with no medication, no doctor visits, as it was all situational
and really just a bad time in my life. Then this August my life fell apart after losing my job and my family Was concerned so they called the police on me and I was admitted as an in patient in the mental health ward of a hospital for 3 days because I self harmed as a coping device.
The doctor who saw me there did not diagnose me with any mental illness and said it was all situational.
Basically I've had some hard times financially and with my.family that lead to situational bouts of depression. I've since gotten my life together and I'm not on any meds. It really was just some bad phases. Does my history seem like it would stop be from joining?
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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You'd have to apply - at best you're going to need some letters for those involved in treating you in the past and currently looking after you.
Good luck.
MM
Good luck.
MM
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I'm looking to join the army. However, I have been treated for anxiety and depression. I have never been diagnosed with either of these mental diseases.
Would the fact that I took medication get me rejected?
Would the fact that I took medication get me rejected?
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I'm not yet in the CF, but I do work in mental health services. It is very common for individuals to experience short-term depression. Approximately 1 in 4 men and 1 in 3 women will experience symptoms of clinical depression, only some will seek treatment, and of those, the majority will not actually be clinically depressed. The absence of hospitalizations, ongoing/recurring failed treatments, "NCR" convictions, use of anti-psychotics or mood stabilizers etc..., will certainly make your case seem less serious. We use the DSM and assessment tools based on it to observe risk of suicide or self-harm and this is very common practice, the CF likely uses a similar system. There's a big push about talking about mental health concerns, even with relation to the military, so if you did just that and got help it shows you knew when you need it, and never let the situation reach a level where it could become fatal. Some people get heat rashes, you go to the doctor, you get cream, it goes away. Feelings of depression in negative life situations are normal, everyone feels depressed at some point, some more than others, but rarely is a reported case of those feelings actually a clinical case of depression. Don't let this hold you back from applying, just be prepared to disclose the details of your situation and explain the improvements in your health since then. It wouldn't hurt to get a letter from your doctors or a previous counselor (should you have completed your treatment on good terms), and if you've been employed full time since, a letter of employment related reference can show youve been able to work without any serious mental health implications.
Again, I'm not in the forces, and nothing I've said is a guarantee, but from what I've learned working in the field I'm in now, this is what I know.
http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/RecentUpdates.aspx - DSM-V and recent changes, some in depressive disorders and the difference between clinical depression and symptoms of depression, as well as bipolar depression and psychotic disorders.
EDIT: It is also notable that one has the right to know what is on their medical file, and you can ask your doctor to show you/explain the details. If you can, get a copy before applying. This way you're aware of what the Forces may discover, and can prepare to disclose any related information. For example, if you had a history of self-harm, it would be good to know what it says on your file regarding that as that may not affect you in the department of "Universality of Service," but a suicide attempt would. Another example, if you disclosed to your doctor feelings of depression over a particular incident, this may not affect you, but an active diagnosis of a "depressive disorder" likely would. If you are on medications, it may also affect you, depending what they are and if it's possible for you to function without them. It seems, though, that the best route would be to obtain a letter from your doctor clearing you of any MH diagnosis, and if possible, stating that they believe you are fit for service.
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5023-1-eng.asp - CDN Forces UoS DAOD 5023 (pretty sure I also saw this elsewhere in this thread)
Again, I'm not in the forces, and nothing I've said is a guarantee, but from what I've learned working in the field I'm in now, this is what I know.
http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/RecentUpdates.aspx - DSM-V and recent changes, some in depressive disorders and the difference between clinical depression and symptoms of depression, as well as bipolar depression and psychotic disorders.
EDIT: It is also notable that one has the right to know what is on their medical file, and you can ask your doctor to show you/explain the details. If you can, get a copy before applying. This way you're aware of what the Forces may discover, and can prepare to disclose any related information. For example, if you had a history of self-harm, it would be good to know what it says on your file regarding that as that may not affect you in the department of "Universality of Service," but a suicide attempt would. Another example, if you disclosed to your doctor feelings of depression over a particular incident, this may not affect you, but an active diagnosis of a "depressive disorder" likely would. If you are on medications, it may also affect you, depending what they are and if it's possible for you to function without them. It seems, though, that the best route would be to obtain a letter from your doctor clearing you of any MH diagnosis, and if possible, stating that they believe you are fit for service.
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5023-1-eng.asp - CDN Forces UoS DAOD 5023 (pretty sure I also saw this elsewhere in this thread)
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pointfiveoh,
Is there a point to your post that revives a long dormant thread? Exactly what type of work do you do in MH services? I ask because you have posted information about topics which you clearly know little about e.g. your comment about a suicide attempt affecting someone's "Universality of Service".
Since you are not in the military and appear to have only a superficial understanding of this topic, I recommend that you stay in your lanes.
Is there a point to your post that revives a long dormant thread? Exactly what type of work do you do in MH services? I ask because you have posted information about topics which you clearly know little about e.g. your comment about a suicide attempt affecting someone's "Universality of Service".
Since you are not in the military and appear to have only a superficial understanding of this topic, I recommend that you stay in your lanes.
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The thread revival was a result of my browsing, but I'm sure I won't be the last to come across it. I work in a housing program for individuals with MH diagnosis, particularly with history of psychosis and/or depressive disorders. I also made it fairly clear that I was not a member of the forces and was simply sharing professional knowledge. My reference being the most commonly referred to series of documents in relation to this subject, the DSM. That being said, and my apologies if I'm incorrect, my interpretation of "perform duties under physical and mental stress" was that someone with suicide attempt(s) in their (possibly recent) past would be precluded from service without appropriate medical clearance. As I mentioned, this is just comparing official documents to my professional experience.
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When I go to work, I'm with my clients in their residential environment everyday. I talk to them more than their doctor does, not to mention observing their behaviours for the last two years. We are the primary support put in place for them and usually we're the first to come in contact with them in times of crisis. Not to mention I got into this position starting as on-site overnight crisis support. I'm hardly lacking in the credentials to discuss depression, Loachman's post is understandable, though.
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I credit you the experience working with people suffering from depression. I do not doubt that that gives you considerable insight. It's how that relates to the CF and recommendations that you were making in that regard that concern me.
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Loachman said:
Sorry, I should of used the quote feature. My reply was meant for PMedMoe, I totally understand where you were coming from with your post. That said, since were all here, was I fairly accurate (if not, where'd I miss) above? Just want to know for knowings sake, haha.
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I don't doubt that your interaction with these people gives you insight, as Loachman has commented. That being said, I meant professional credentials.
At any rate, deeming what does or doesn't qualify someone from the CF enrollment standards is out of your lane.
At any rate, deeming what does or doesn't qualify someone from the CF enrollment standards is out of your lane.
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pointfiveoh said:
"Should have".
Also sorry - inner English teacher and picky staff guy.
pointfiveoh said:
As you asked:
pointfiveoh said:
And even if you were, you would not be qualified to give such advice. Somebody with recent experience making decisions regarding an applicant's mental fitness would be qualified, but would not likely do so without seeing the whole file, and would certainly not do so on an open forum.
pointfiveoh said:
"May" is a more valid claim. "May not" is also equally valid. Who knows?
Neither me, nor you, nor anybody else here.
pointfiveoh said:
You fail to recognize the nature of the situations and environments into which we put people, and the effects of those situations and environments. Getting help may well be impossible. How would somebody "never let the situation reach a level where it could become fatal"? Many have not been successful with that, either during or after their tours. I have met at least one member of this Site, for the first time, at a mutual friend and colleague's repat and funeral and I do not wish to do that again. This is serious stuff. Really.
pointfiveoh said:
Rashes can get pretty serious in austere environments. Mental issues can become fatal. There is no brain cream to make them go away.
pointfiveoh said:
"Able to work without any serious mental health implications" in an austere location where people are being killed and horribly mutilated? Including one's friends? Where no treatment or "normal" outlet is available? When food and living conditions suck, and adequate hygiene and rest are sorely lacking? What civilian employment can compare to that?
pointfiveoh said:
Indubitably, but that's not this field.
pointfiveoh said:
Again, what civilian employment can compare?
pointfiveoh said:
This is a little better, but requiring medications is a disqualifier.
We have a duty to care for our members and, to a lesser degree, applicants. This includes keeping applicants out, if there is a possibility that they could harm themselves at some point. Part of that is due to responsibility for them as individuals, and the greater part is for the others who could be placed in jeopardy because a colleague suffering from depression or something else, controllable or not in a "normal" civilian environment, kills him/herself or becomes ineffective in a life-or-death situation.
We'd not likely recruit somebody who's had a heart attack, either. A civilian company may well hire that person, but we could not, as a problem has been demonstrated.
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