The Brookfield Megathread

[George Wallace]

Nor is it fair to the member who has made a purchase that would upon retirement afford him less of an expense in their final move.  Is it now the policy of the CAF to 'bankrupt' its members, so that upon retirement after a long term of Service, they can not afford a home?  Way back when I did a CT, the best advice I got was from a RSS Sgt at my Reserve unit who advised me to buy a home on every Posting, so that when I retired I would own a home.  If this policy by the CAF and Brookfield is intentionally hamstringing members in investing towards their future retirement, then is a form of discrimination.  It is a crock.

 

[dapaterson]

The IRP is very clear about limits on lot sizes:

8.1.05 Lots and lot size
Core benefit
The reimbursement of expenses is limited to a lot size of:
· 1.25 acres (½ hectare); or
· up to four acres (2.47 hectares) where required by zoning laws and city bylaws.
If additional land is sold or purchased, CF members are entitled to reimbursement only for that portion of costs which would have been reimbursed within the above limitations.
(http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/dgcb/dcba/pdf/CFIRP_policy_A-PP-005-IRP-AG-001-1_11-12_e.pdf)

 

[dapaterson]

Unfortunately, not all CAF members are in the same boat when it comes to what size of property they may legitimately require.  I have know several who have owned horses and others who have bought "Hobby Farms".  To lump everyone into one category, which basically limits CAF members to buying what amounts to not much more than a "Row House" is very discriminating, to  say the least.

How is it discriminating?  If you want a hobby farm, you pay for a hobby farm.  Its's a want not a need.

The CAF's role is not to subsidize your lifestyle choices.

 

[captloadie]

It is not the responsibility of the government to pay for my investments, be they property or not. The rules about the size of lot have been in place for at least five years. Nobody should be surprised.

If my hobby is fixing up old cars, and I decide to buy a commercial lot with a garage to indulge my hobby, I wouldn't expect to be reimbursed by the government when it is time to move me. The same should apply to hobby farms, sugar bushes, and wood lots.

And by the way, we're talking about realtor fees. Something most other Canadians have to pay out of pocket when they sell a house. So, if someone has to cough up an extra few grand to pay additional realty fees, I don't think we should complain, as it is the price we pay to get something outside the norm of today's housing  footprint (honestly, how many new homes do you see being built on lots larger than 1.25 acres).

 

[DAA]

No, it's ok.  I understand they have to put a cap on land size or you would have members buying 100s of acres each move, driving the value of their property which would be very expensive for DND to pay real estate fees. 
I do think the appraisaer should have given us two values, one based on the entire land and one on 1.25 just so we would know and see the difference.  However that didn't happen and we are moving on from this.  Lesson learned.  Don't buy too much land (or a nice property) if you aren't willing to pay for it.

On my most recent purchase, our property was situated on 10.5 Acres of land.  And I received FULL reimbursement on the purchase.  It took a bit of creative doing but I got it done......

My time spent as a DND Coord sure paid off!!!    :nod:

 

[captloadie]

But what will you receive on the sale, which is where the regs are more restrictive, and is more pertinent to this thread.

 

[SentryMAn]

Maybe a stupid move question, but give me a break I've never moved via Posting before.

I have 2 cars and will be shipping one to my new location after reco'n the market in the new area and the existing area I will be out too much money to sell here and buy there for a second car.

Do they normally treat cars/trucks well in the shipping aspect?  It makes the decision a bit easier if I know that it will arrive at destination scratched or possibly damaged.

I've got so many question without answers it is amazing!  lol

 

[George Wallace]

Maybe a stupid move question, but give me a break I've never moved via Posting before.

I have 2 cars and will be shipping one to my new location after reco'n the market in the new area and the existing area I will be out too much money to sell here and buy there for a second car.

Do they normally treat cars/trucks well in the shipping aspect?  It makes the decision a bit easier if I know that it will arrive at destination scratched or possibly damaged.

Depends on the "Carrier" as to how well your belongings (including car/motorcycle/boat) will be treated.  Don't forget; they are insured to cover damages.

 

[DAA]

But what will you receive on the sale, which is where the regs are more restrictive, and is more pertinent to this thread.

The documentation that I used as part of the purchase will be used again should we decide to sell at a later date (if approval is granted on purchase, it automatically carries over to sale).  IRP originally balked at reimbursement and told me for anything over and above the 1.25 acres would require a minimum of two appraisals, which would have to be done at my own expense prior to any reimbursement.  However, they were willing to accept a "Letter of Value" from our Realtor showing that the property above the 1.25 acres was of little or no value.  Basically, if the house were on a 1.25 acre lot, we would have still paid the same price.  Also, lot sizes in our area are "restricted" and severances are not permitted, so I had to obtain a letter from the Ministry of Housing to that effect.

Worked for me....

 

[392]

Maybe a stupid move question, but give me a break I've never moved via Posting before.

I have 2 cars and will be shipping one to my new location after reco'n the market in the new area and the existing area I will be out too much money to sell here and buy there for a second car.

Do they normally treat cars/trucks well in the shipping aspect?  It makes the decision a bit easier if I know that it will arrive at destination scratched or possibly damaged.

I've got so many question without answers it is amazing!  lol

If you choose to ship your car, it will be done by civy veh transport company who will go over it with a fine tooth comb and check off every scratch, ding and dent prior to accepting it for tpt. Any damage done by them should be covered on the other end. FWIW, two postings ago, I had an excellent experience shipping my car, and it arrived about a day and a half after I did at my new location. YMMV.

 

[DAA]

I understand what you are saying.  For us we didn't want to live in a subdivision so we ended up on the outskirts with more land than we actually need.  I don't regret the decision because the privacy and bonfires have been great.  Now I know we need to pay extra to get that.  Same with hobby farms.  It will cost the member money because it isn't fair for tax payers to pay for the member's hobby.

:-\    Something just doesn't seem right here and I can only make assumptions at this point.  But I find it rather intriguing, that you had the CFIRP Appraisals done, contracted your Realtor, put the house on the market' provided a copy of the agreement to Brookefield and KABANG......right there, Brookefield should have seen it.  The "advertised/listed" selling price, exceeds the appraised value.........that is enough to raise the RED FLAGS!

If your interested, PM me your details and I will have a look at it.  No promises though of "riches" coming your way.....lol

 

[PAdm]

Okay.......you need to pick a side here!

No side to pick. My point was you work your way up the chain when you do not get what you believe is an acceptable answer, or an answer that does not make sense, from Brookfield. I ended up with a successful grievance when I worked up the chain step by step and they all said "no" when I knew the answer was yes. The grievance was simply the next step in the process after IRP Adjudication said no.

 

[DAA]

No side to pick. My point was you work your way up the chain when you do not get what you believe is an acceptable answer, or an answer that does not make sense, from Brookfield. I ended up with a successful grievance when I worked up the chain step by step and they all said "no" when I knew the answer was yes. The grievance was simply the next step in the process after IRP Adjudication said no.

I was only pulling your leg with my comment.    But yes, you are right!  Sometimes when NO is not the correct answer, it does take a bit of doing to get the proper result.  DCBA liked me, at least I think they did, but only because I did all the ground work and then some, on the local end and provided sufficient information necessary so they could make a reasonably "informed" decision.  But what I found several times, was the CF member submitting a case to the DND Coord for adjudication and the submission being passed up to DCBA with the comment "For your adjudication action".    :facepalm: 

And my all time favourite was one base who appointed a "2Lt" as the DND Coord and that person used to just forward the members submission with no comments at all.    :rofl:

 

[PAdm]

And my all time favourite was one base who appointed a "2Lt" as the DND Coord and that person used to just forward the members submission with no comments at all.    :rofl:

I totally agree.  We do this to ourselves.  You need to have analysis and review at the base level.  The better the staff work at the base level, the better the chances of success. 

 

[technophile]

I'm posted this summer and had my initial Brookfield appt. an issue came up during that meeting and surprised me (and I was corrected several times.)  When I referred to my " posting allowance" the Brookfield agent called it the " personalized envelope cash out" . I asked for clarification to be sure I wasn't messing something up and was told its no longer referred to as a posting allowance.

Everything I can find outside of Brookfield still calls this a " posting allowance" .  Am I missing something ?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No...it is still a PA but it goes into the Personalized envelope.

Check out the funding formulas and definitions here  http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/rel-rei/aps-paa-2011/chapter-chapitre-01-eng.asp

I suggest you print and read the Manual; I have, Chap's 1-9 (rest aren't applic to me so I removed them) and went over the stuff that applies to me with a highlighter.  I put mine in a binder;  obviously I will look after my own best interest more than anyone else will.

Watch throughout the Manual for which expenses are covered under which envelope.  You can easily see where your PA can be eaten up.  :2c:

 

[technophile]

Good advice. When I asked if they still gave out copies of " the book" I was looked at like I had a third eye

 

[Eye In The Sky]

PDF file is avail here.  Them not providing it puts the costs down to local IT "printer cartridge purchase" folks/fin codes.  "the appearance of savings"??

 

[Occam]

Had an interesting meeting with our real estate agent last night.  We're starting the process of my IPR move - my, two years post-release goes by quickly!

Our real estate agent tells us that the "usual" real estate commission these days is 5%, and they wanted to know if an IPR move had different rate than a regular "posting" move.  I checked with BGRS today - regardless of the type of move, they will only pay 4.1% for a real estate commission.

The real estate agent explained that the 4.1% limit really puts military/RCMP/PS personnel behind the 8-ball for a couple of reasons.  First, a real estate agent representing a buyer will see the 4.1% at the bottom of the MLS listing, and know right off the bat that it's a government relocation, and that the seller is likely on a timeline.  That puts the seller at a disadvantage.  Second, if buyers have come down to a short list of homes they're interested in, the buyer's real estate agent is going to try to steer buyers away from the government relocations at 4.1 in favour of other homes that are selling at a 5% commission rate, because it'll mean more money in their pocket.

The solution?  Advertise at a 5% commission rate, and pay the difference to the buyer's real estate agent out of pocket.  Unfortunately, that doesn't seem fair to the selling real estate agent, but unless you want to pay them the difference too in order to keep it fair, it is what it is.  The government put us in this position by not paying agents the going rate.

 

[DAA]

Had an interesting meeting with our real estate agent last night.  We're starting the process of my IPR move - my, two years post-release goes by quickly!

Our real estate agent tells us that the "usual" real estate commission these days is 5%, and they wanted to know if an IPR move had different rate than a regular "posting" move.  I checked with BGRS today - regardless of the type of move, they will only pay 4.1% for a real estate commission.

The real estate agent explained that the 4.1% limit really puts military/RCMP/PS personnel behind the 8-ball for a couple of reasons.  First, a real estate agent representing a buyer will see the 4.1% at the bottom of the MLS listing, and know right off the bat that it's a government relocation, and that the seller is likely on a timeline.  That puts the seller at a disadvantage.  Second, if buyers have come down to a short list of homes they're interested in, the buyer's real estate agent is going to try to steer buyers away from the government relocations at 4.1 in favour of other homes that are selling at a 5% commission rate, because it'll mean more money in their pocket.

The solution?  Advertise at a 5% commission rate, and pay the difference to the buyer's real estate agent out of pocket.  Unfortunately, that doesn't seem fair to the selling real estate agent, but unless you want to pay them the difference too in order to keep it fair, it is what it is.  The government put us in this position by not paying agents the going rate.

Couple of points to note......

1 - Real estate commissions vary from province to province.  And within the context of the CFIRP Manual they will also reflect that.
2 - The rates in the CFIRP Manual are based on "negotiated" rates from 3rd party suppliers who have "signed on" to the military/government relocation program.
3 - and most importantly, a Government relocation is, for the most part, a DONE DEAL, at very little cost to your selling agent.....unless your home is not "showable'sellable" or your asking price is too high or there is something else in the closet.

So the reduced Commission Rate on GoC relocations should actually be a "high value" target for Realtors given the fact that the property is a "quick" turnover with limited effort on their part.  If you have to sell, you have to sell and at some point you WILL have to sell.  The people that will try to take advantage is the BUYERS.  It's up to you and your Realtor to discuss all this and determine a reasonable selling price within the fair market value range.

Given our circumstances, we can't be the average "joe schmo" and price high, haggle, hold out, 60 day closings,etc, etc, etc and the list goes on and on......

Buy a home, with the intention of selling at a later date!!!