Terrorist Assaults on France (Jan 2015) - Charlie Hebdo, Executed Police, Gun Fights and Hostage Tak

[jollyjacktar]

Indeed, if the author was to be taken at face value, the Allemand Brigade of the FFL was highly effective against the insurgents when set against the other French combat units in Indo China.  That sort of fight fire with fire treatment is, I believe, the only really effective way to combat these barbarians.  Alexander or Caesar would also concur I expect.

 

[tomahawk6]

How brutal do you want to get ? I would rather tighten immigration to prevent new muslim immigration.Deport those that cant abide by the laws of the host country.I would favor deporting an entire family to gain leverage to insure good behavior.The death penalty must be an option for prosecutors in the most extreme cases.

 

[Old Sweat]

Gang, we are all really teed off, but let's sleep on it before we start tossing the rule of law and the values on our constitutions out the window.

 

[George Wallace]

How brutal do you want to get ? I would rather tighten immigration to prevent new muslim immigration.Deport those that cant abide by the laws of the host country.I would favor deporting an entire family to gain leverage to insure good behavior.

That topic has been discussed on many forums here in Canada in reference a certain family.

 

[tomahawk6]

Gang, we are all really teed off, but let's sleep on it before we start tossing the rule of law and the values on our constitutions out the window.

Canada is different from Europe where the immigrants are assimilated into society with jobs that pay well.France on the other hand lacks jobs and the immigrants have not assimilated.They live apart with their own rules.A big internal security headache that has been a long time coming.

 

[Old Sweat]

Agreed, that's why we should watch and then watch and shoot.

Much of the media was not making your observation today, but were pilling on.

 

[George Wallace]

Canada is different from Europe where the immigrants are assimilated into society with jobs that pay well.France on the other hand lacks jobs and the immigrants have not assimilated.They live apart with their own rules.A big internal security headache that has been a long time coming.

Germany was much the same with its "Guest Workers" from the 50's through to the 90's.  Since the "Wall" came down, German Laws have since changed giving these 'Guest Workers' some rights, as well as the large numbers of immigrants claiming 'German Lineages' from Russia and the former Warsaw Pact countries, the opportunities to own property and businesses.  That may have rectified some of their potential problems, but like many European countries, the ethnic ghettos are still a problem. 

France's problems stem back to the 50's as well, and terrorist acts, predominately by Algerians, have been common in France for as long.  This is probably the reason we have seen such a swift resolution to the latest events.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Exactly, I have spent the last !4 years developing my thinking and understanding of the variants of the  Muslim faith and why it seems to stand out from all the other major religions.(At least in its propensity to propagate extreme terrorists bent on murder and mayhem)

Basically, one of the core faith tenants, at least as it exists today, is the total lack of acceptance of any other belief and the necessity of all human beings to submit to Allah, and to force Mohamed's will on all human beings.

I don't believe this is  one of the main driving force in other major religions such as Christianity or Judaism.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/churchillislam.asp

 

[cryco]

Who's the prophet now... he was bang on.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Has anyone here read "The Devil's Guard"?

I was referring to the tactics the SS et al employed.

Indeed, if the author was to be taken at face value, the Allemand Brigade of the FFL was highly effective against the insurgents when set against the other French combat units in Indo China.

Before we give tooooo much credence to "Devil's Guard", while a great read, there's controversy re: whether it's true or not - with many former Foreign Legionnaires saying it's fiction.

France's problems stem back to the 50's as well, and terrorist acts, predominately by Algerians, have been common in France for as long.  This is probably the reason we have seen such a swift resolution to the latest events.

I'm guessing the French learned a lot of lessons (still applied) from the days of "Algerie Algerienne" vs "Algerie Francaise" (forgive my spelling).

And as much as we want to rant about "throw the rules out the window", this remains true ....

Gang, we are all really teed off, but let's sleep on it before we start tossing the rule of law and the values on our constitutions out the window.

.... because once we "bend" the rules for one group, it becomes a whooooooooooooooole lot easier to bend them for others - for better and for worse.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Nothing of the sort. I was referring to the tactics the SS et al employed.

The French Army military campaign in Algeria against the FLN is widely considered a military success.  almost all the FLN leadership were killed and terror attacks stopped; however, a substantial portion of the French public did not support the military's tactics and France ended up pulling out of Algeria anyways.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The French Army military campaign in Algeria against the FLN is widely considered a military success.  almost all the FLN leadership were killed and terror attacks stopped; however, a substantial portion of the French public did not support the military's tactics and France ended up pulling out of Algeria anyways.

The campaign was successful, kind of like the US COIN campaign was successful in Vietnam on a military level. Politically, it contributed to ending the French colonial era in Africa forcefully, and forever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMWdueGTZ4

 

[Kat Stevens]

Before we give tooooo much credence to "Devil's Guard", while a great read, there's controversy re: whether it's true or not - with many former Foreign Legionnaires saying it's fiction.
I'm guessing the French learned a lot of lessons (still applied) from the days of "Algerie Algerienne" vs "Algerie Francaise" (forgive my spelling).

And as much as we want to rant about "throw the rules out the window", this remains true ........ because once we "bend" the rules for one group, it becomes a whooooooooooooooole lot easier to bend them for others - for better and for worse.

And this is why, in 100 years, your great granddaughters will be cattle, and your great grandsons can be beheaded for complaining about the weather.  These guys are 100% committed to their cause at any cost, we are not, because it may make us look bad.  History is full of extinct nice guy societies.

 

[The Bread Guy]

And this is why, in 100 years, your great granddaughters will be cattle, and your great grandsons can be beheaded for complaining about the weather.  These guys are 100% committed to their cause at any cost, we are not, because it may make us look bad. 

While I agree with the orange bit 100%, I'm not as pessimistic about the yellow bit coming to pass.  Call me optimistic, call me naive - just saying that if we throw the rules out the window when we like the idea, it becomes easier to do it when we don't like the idea.

History is full of extinct nice guy societies.

And there's also some tough guy societies petering out on the books, too ....

That sort of fight fire with fire treatment is, I believe, the only really effective way to combat these barbarians.  Alexander or Caesar would also concur I expect.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Too many red necks and Christian extremists for us to become cattle

 

[jollyjacktar]

And there's also some tough guy societies petering out on the books, too ....

 
True enough.  But, all Empires eventually fall.  All of them, for one reason or another. 

My point was, however, at times you have to deal with a bully in language they understand in order to get them to quit.  If our fathers and grandfathers had pussy footed around 70 years ago because they were afraid of looking bad, I believe we would have had a much different end result and not one in our favour. 

Alexander and a Caesar such as Trajan, while brutal in their methods to our modern eyes, efficiently put down insurgencies they were facing as did the French in Algeria.  The only difference between the two epochs (ancient and modern) was the public outcry against the Algerian crisis.
It may come to pass that to deal  effectively with the rise of these new Fascists of the Islamic kind, we may have to find ourselves up against the wall on the verge of blinking out, before we take the gloves off and get into the mud ourselves. 

 

[a_majoor]

While sending these animals to hell is quite proper and satisfying, *we* need to support more measures to isolate these animals from society and diminish their allure to others.

President el-Sisi's speech calling for an Islamic "Reformation" is a great step, and should be supported and rebroadcast everywhere. Correctly interpreting the Qrun is another (anyone who really reads and understands the Qrun knows that the fate of the terrorists is indeed to be sent straight to hell, since they attacked innocents), and there was a letter by Islamic scholars who completely demolished the ISIS declaration of a Caliphate by referring to Islamic jurisprudence as another example of what can be done.

My fear is looking at the extremist "Nativist" parties in Europe, who rate tapping into a growing faction of enraged voters who oppose multi culturalism, Islamic immigration and the EU in general. It won't take too many of these sorts of events in Europe to bring out mobs of thousands who will swoop down on neighbourhoods of Islamic immigrants to deliver their own form of vigilante "justice". That sort of thing will radicalize more Islamists, creating an escalating cycle of violence and counter violence across large swaths of Europe.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm not advocating wholesale rounding up of immigrants of any stripe.  Hell, I am one, difference being I thought Canada was such a great country I gave it the best 23 years of my life and a healthy back.  I don't know what the answer is, I'm just a dumb old ex thumperhead, not too smart but I can lift heavy things.  Every puzzle has a solution, hopefully we find it soon.

 

[George Wallace]

The answers lie in what this Muslim posts on FaceBook:  (Caution:  Emotional language used.)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=794512987269573

 

[Kat Stevens]

He'll be dead by next Friday.