Tac Vest does not make the grade.

[ArmyRick]

Here is a better tip. Webbing is going bye bye. Tac Vest is in. No comparison. Web gear was junk and no matter how much you wore it correctly, it moved all over the place.

2FERSapper, well said.

 

[jc5778]

ok ok the tac vest def has advantages over webbing but, my last tour, in 2002, was the first of its kind for us in a long long time.  Our front line ammo was at a minimum:

11 X 30 round mags
2 X Frags
2 X smoke
As much water as u can carry
not to mention the normal, socks, back up sight, field dressings, gortex socks..(yah I know, they get binned when we actually go out on op)  funny how we don't train how we fight......
and at least some of the following (clays, 1st aid kit, 203's etc...)

Where does all this go in the new tac vest??  Why, every time we get new kit, yes it is an improvement, but it does not address the problems with that of the outgoing supplies. 

The lack of a new ruck sack (so far) is just another example.  EVERYONE knows that that current ones are crap.  I was lucky enough to work with a different unit for that 02 tour and was able to get a 64 pattern ruck.  Better, but still not the be all end all.  Has this new ruck not been in the test/design faze for like 10 years now?  Why not go to something tried and tested?  Bergen maybe?

Anyways, that's just a lowly infantry corporal's view.  For the record, I prefered the webbing to this new incarnation of a tac vest.  Old habits die hard I guess.  :warstory:

 

[Britney Spears]

Meh, so far everyone who has used the vest on operations share my opinion, so that's good enough for me.

funny how we don't train how we fight......

I've actually been told, once, IN THEATRE, to have my BFA with me at all times, "just in case". Presumably, just in case we stumble across some blank 5.56 on the side of the road. It was suppose to go in your right kidney pouch, if you were wondering. the order stood for almost a day. How's that for fight as you train?

 

[Baloo]

It's for that lone enemy, base of tree, seen? 

 

[Sapper24]

I just got my Tac. Vest not to long ago,I like it its got alot of ammo carrying capacity, but no real space like the butpack had with the old 82 pattern webbing.

 

[2FERSapper]

No comment on your rant, but here's a tip: If your webbing is bouncing around and twisting, you're wearing it incorrectly. Put your webbing on, position the belt over your hips, tighten the waist belt nice and snug, so that there is no weight on your yoke and shoulders (you should be able to slip out of the shoulder straps easily, and the belt should stay put), and adjust your front and back shoulder straps accordingly. A lot of new guys seem to think that since it has shoulder pads you should wear it like a backpack. All the weight should be on your hips.   it's called "belt kit" for a reason.

There's probably already a thread on how to use webbing properly.

thanks for starters i aint "a new guy". secondly no mtter how u wear it(yes even on the hips like anyone who had half a brain wore it) it still bounces around. thirdly these complaints about lack of space. THE BUTT PACK DIDNT HAVE THAT MUCH SPACE!!!!! also its not like you could use anything from your buttpack on the move. to access it either you had to take off your webbing or someone else had to get whatever you wanted from it. last but not least ive never heard anyone refer to webbing as belt kit... guess im not as cool as you. and my point still stands. we could bit*ch about anything. bottem line is the tac vest is a huge improvement over the webbing. it might not be perfect but its defintly better than the outdated, poorly designed and manufactured 82 patern webbing.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Just got ours in the Calgary Highlanders tonight - REMFs like me included.

Guys, this is obviously designed to be worn with a small pack of some kind, or the ruck (which I am advised we will get in about 2009 )

Won't comment on how good/bad I think it is since those "real" soldiers who have served operationally are the ones whose opinion matters.  But at least we're not in the bad old days of 64 pattern webbing, see-through combat clothing, and etc.  Everything new is going to be open to petty gripes by a minority - and the problem of finding the "perfect" solution to individual kit needs, that will satisfy all arms and individuals, will never be solved.

 

[Britney Spears]

thanks for starters i aint "a new guy". secondly no mtter how u wear it(yes even on the hips like anyone who had half a brain wore it) it still bounces around. thirdly these complaints about lack of space. THE BUTT PACK DIDNT HAVE THAT MUCH SPACE!!!!! also its not like you could use anything from your buttpack on the move. to access it either you had to take off your webbing or someone else had to get whatever you wanted from it. last but not least ive never heard anyone refer to webbing as belt kit... guess im not as cool as you. and my point still stands. we could bit*ch about anything. bottem line is the tac vest is a huge improvement over the webbing. it might not be perfect but its defintly better than the outdated, poorly designed and manufactured 82 patern webbing.

I don't know what your point is, since everything you brought up has already been answered and flogged to death earlier in the thread. Also, reading your typing makes my eyes hurt, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Won't comment on how good/bad I think it is since those "real" soldiers who have served operationally are the ones whose opinion matters.

Now now Micheal, it's no fault of yours that the system doesn't supply enough armour, pyro, and support weapons ammunition for you to fully utilize your carrying capacity. Rest assured no one thinks any less highly of you or your opinion because of it.

I've never used the 64 ptn webbing, but it seems most of the reviews don't rate it very highly, so I'll take your word for it.

However......

the problem of finding the "perfect" solution to individual kit needs, that will satisfy all arms and individuals, will never be solved.

I disagree, at least in terms of 1st line kit,  a modular system will solve this problem, if we all got Paracelet RAVs and 2 of every kind of pouch in the stocking, I guarantee no one will be complaining. This is not at all an unreasonable proposition, if you factor in the cost of the armour.

 

[Marauder]

I disagree, at least in terms of 1st line kit,  a modular system will solve this problem, if we all got Paracelet RAVs and 2 of every kind of pouch in the stocking, I guarantee no one will be complaining. This is not at all an unreasonable proposition, if you factor in the cost of the armour.

Now look you, stop trying to make sense and use logic! You're in the bloody Infantry! You're not allowed to think! Especially when you're right and show the higher ups as the out to lunch schlups they are! Besides, all those REMFs running a desk in Ottawa would feel unequal and demoralized if the shooters got something that actually worked while the pie people didn't. Everyone must have an equal LCF. I think there's a CANFORGEN or LANDFORGEN that covers that somewhere.

And just to add to the IMP leftovers at the top of the pile at the bottom of the blue rocket, the TV is a generational leap forward from the webbing, but the TV is a half measure toward what is possible and accepted as being the standard for modern first-line gear. I'll shut up now.

 

[bossi]

Now look you, stop trying to make sense and use logic! You're in the bloody Infantry! You're not allowed to think! Especially when you're right and show the higher ups as the out to lunch schlups they are! Besides, all those REMFs running a desk in Ottawa would feel unequal and demoralized if the shooters got something that actually worked while the pie people didn't. Everyone must have an equal LCF. I think there's a CANFORGEN or LANDFORGEN that covers that somewhere.

And just to add to the IMP leftovers at the top of the pile at the bottom of the blue rocket, the TV is a generational leap forward from the webbing, but the TV is a half measure toward what is possible and accepted as being the standard for modern first-line gear.

Geez - somebody in QM musta missed that LCF order ... when they repo'd my tac vest ...
(but, heck - now that I don't have a tac vest any more, nor do I have the webbing they took away from me when I was issued my vest ... I'm kinda enjoying how my new duffel bag tac vest feels on my back, and it holds lots of stuff ... who knows?  Maybe somebody higher up will notice, and we'll all get duffel bags to wear ... since apparently we can't afford enough vests for our meagre Army ...)
[/bitter sarcasm off]

 

[purple peguin]

there was a cadpat tactical vest at the army navy store in Halifax for sale 100.00 i see it is now sold

 

[Bomber]

You should have bought it and put it on ebay.  You snooze you Lose

 

[043]

thanks for starters i aint "a new guy". secondly no mtter how u wear it(yes even on the hips like anyone who had half a brain wore it) it still bounces around. thirdly these complaints about lack of space. THE BUTT PACK DIDNT HAVE THAT MUCH SPACE!!!!! also its not like you could use anything from your buttpack on the move. to access it either you had to take off your webbing or someone else had to get whatever you wanted from it. last but not least ive never heard anyone refer to webbing as belt kit... guess im not as cool as you. and my point still stands. we could bit*ch about anything. bottem line is the tac vest is a huge improvement over the webbing. it might not be perfect but its defintly better than the outdated, poorly designed and manufactured 82 patern webbing.

I agree with you that the Butt Pack didn't have much space but I got a story for you.........Put your helmet on..........Back in the late 80's early 90's while I was posted to 1 CER in Chilliwack we used to get issued our NBC Ensemble. Now, do you think we would get a IPE Bag??? NO! They gave us an extra Butt Pack to carry all that crap in. And hey, it used to all fit believe it or not. Suit and gloves inside and the booties attached to the flap on top.

As for the new TacVest, I have used in Garrison and on Operation and let me tell you, it is good, it is very comfortable if fitted properly and you can carry tons of ammo. The TacVest is the least of worries as far as I am concerned. It's all the excess crap that people put on them.  But I agree with the statements that it is difficult to get in and out of the hatch in certain vehicles but really, are you not able to drap it over the back of the hatch so that just before you dismount you can slip into it? What is the sense of wearing it if your inside an armoured vehicle? Now I am talking strictly about a Crew Commander here. As for the dismounts in the back, why open the door when you can drop the ramp?? Now if someone gets hung up trying to get out of that hole, they should probably see a dietician!

my 2 cents,

CHIMO!

 

[bcbarman]

Well, we just got the tac vest at the drill hall today (yes, there is a Canada on the other side of the rockies)  and to read the posts I am just downright depressed.  I just hope that it is a better system for riding in vehicles.  As armour recce, I am in and out of the truck all the time, and never wear my webbing.  Now that the vest has arrived (after a FNG has been using his since November) I hope that this system works better for us black hats then you walkers.

Cheers

 

[Andyboy]

So to sum this thread up:

The TV is light years ahead of webbing, is a glorified old LBV, holds tonnes of ammo, doesn't hold enough ammo, has tonns of space to carry stuff, can't carry all the operational kit required of a modern LI soldier, is wicked comfortable, puts too much weight to the front, does not work well with the issued armour, does not need to work well with the issued armour, is hated by reg force infantry soldiers, is well liked by drivers and clerks, doesn't need a buttpack, needs a butt pack, is CADPAT(TW) needs to be CADPAT(AR), looks good, looks great, is new, is dated, is better than what we had, still falls way short.

Super, 

 

[Britney Spears]

You forgot that it has no place for rank slip-ons, but they can be placed on either the bayonet or the left shoulder strap depending on how the RSM reads the lunar calendar.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You forgot that it has no place for rank slip-ons, but they can be placed on either the bayonet or the left shoulder strap depending on how the RSM reads the lunar calendar.

I think our RSM decided it will go on the "off hand" shoulder strap (ie if you shoot left handed, it goes on the right, or vice versa).  May be just a vicious rumour however... ;D

 

[aesop081]

So to sum this thread up:

The TV is light years ahead of webbing, is a glorified old LBV, holds tonnes of ammo, doesn't hold enough ammo, has tonns of space to carry stuff, can't carry all the operational kit required of a modern LI soldier, is wicked comfortable, puts too much weight to the front, does not work well with the issued armour, does not need to work well with the issued armour, is hated by reg force infantry soldiers, is well liked by drivers and clerks, doesn't need a buttpack, needs a butt pack, is CADPAT(TW) needs to be CADPAT(AR), looks good, looks great, is new, is dated, is better than what we had, still falls way short.

Super,    

I would say that sums it up pretty well.  I left the army just as the TV was comming in so i never got to use it but i figured there would be some issues with it.  So not having used it i will take the opinion of those infantry/engineers that have used it and go with POS to describe it !

 

[George Wallace]

In 2 CMBG and most place I've been, the rank slip on is on the Left Shoulder Strap.  To be putting on whatever is your off hand side would only promote confussion and not be uniform.

GW

 

[Britney Spears]

Here, since I started it, I'll sum it up.

I for one prefer the 82 pattern webbing to the TV...  But I have a Paraclete RAV and SOTech Hellcat vests that make my use of the 82 pattern moot  ;D.

With the old webbing, you could replace the C7 mag pouches with utility pouches for the C9 gunner to carry more boxes.  The TacVest does not give us this option, or a suitable alternative.

Consider, as I just have, that the 82 pattern webbing is MORE modular and more customizable/adaptable - despite its shortcomings it is in some ways superior.

Fact being stranger than fiction - we had a Pl WO (MJP can tell you in who's PL  ) that lowered his troops ammo allotment so they could carry their ammo in the TV  :  - did I mention this was in Afghanistan...

Every soldiers gear load out will be different depending on the soldier's tasks.  The TV in its present configuration does not meet this need.  Soldiers are forced to comprimise, leave out water for ammo (example of a C9 gunners post) which in the long run could be extremely dangerous.  Modular is the future.  Gear must be compatible and useful with body armour.  In fact we should all have body armour to train with as it definitely changes how we do business.  Look at what you should be carrying when you assess the suitablity of the TV not what you get issued for training.  There is a big difference.  Sometimes we forget that. 

We could always go back to that modulized piece of load bearing kit we all used to own, the 82 pattern webbing.

We could add more mag pouches, more water bottles, switch pouches around as needed. And it fits better over the ballistic vest better then any tac vest could....

Anyways, that's just a lowly infantry corporal's view.  For the record, I prefered the webbing to this new incarnation of a tac vest. 

I left the army just as the TV was comming in

;D

Disclaimer: Some quotes may be a little out of context.  I am not afflicated with the makers of the 82 Ptn webbing, who ever the heck they are, and I think the 82 ptn webbing is crap, but there are worse things......