Tac Vest does not make the grade.

[Britney Spears]

Secondly if one is in the Mooolitia and is only doing 3 section attacks fine - but if one is a regular force light infanteer going to afghan I put it to you that the majority of our kit does SUCK - and as such members are forced to buy aftermarket gear - why they feel the kit we issue is so inferior that their lives are in jeopardy.

No argument there, its a different matter when one's ass is on the linel, although to be honest, for the first few month I thought the TV was the greatest thing the army ever gave me.

I'd ignore Military photo's for int - a buddy of mine (he's a Lt Col in Bragg) confirmed that they play the issue game during the Q course (well not the instructors obviously) but that many phases of the Pineland excusion they are in civies etc to facilitate the guerrilla nature.

Ooooh, "int" make it sound so serious. Regardless, it does illustrate the point that for 90% of training (esp. for reservists), kit doesn't matter, so all the reserve ptes who whine incessantly about the 82ptn webbing on their weekend exs should stop and get on with their jobs. The Sgt Maj.'s job isn't any easier that your's(the ptes, that is) and if he can live with the webbing so can you.

 

[KevinB]

I agree to a point- however these days the PTE's have the shittiest loads - the C9 gunner and M203 grenadiers are not accomodated by the TV.

I for one prefer the 82 pattern webbing to the TV...  But I have a Paraclete RAV and SOTech Hellcat vests that make my use of the 82 pattern moot  ;D.

The troop makes the gear work the gear does not make the troop - but thers is no need to saddle troops with useless items - as (IIRC) PBI mentioned our gear system is 10-15 years behind the times - the TV would have been a good vest to walk around Crotia/Bosnia with.
It is not a good vest to do ops in Afghan or perhaps Iraqi or Sudan...

 

[D-n-A]

KevinB, for the M203 grenadiers, could they use a US grenadier vest for the 40mm grenades?




picture is of the ALICE grenadier vest, been in use with the US since the Vietnam War, but now MOLLE has replaced it.

 

[Britney Spears]

It really bugs me when people who are not in our line of work try to second guess the kit needs and wants.

You give them far too much credit. When I meekly inquired where one was suppose to keep M203 ammunition, the answer was "*shrug*, I dunno, but you better figure something out". I'll be happy when they actually "try to second guess our kit needs and wants" (which really isn't that hard, if you think about it), instead of completely ignoring them.

 

[KevinB]

AoS, but then where does your water, ammo and other mission essential kit go?


Right now CTS is fielding a replacement pouch for the TV that replaces the utility pouch - well great but now the grenadier has no spot for extra mags etc.

Guys in Afghan are wearing them as leg pouch drop loads (which is fine if you dont go anywhere with them but not if you are going in and out of buildings or up and down a moutain.

The C9 gunners are in an equal boat.

Unfortunately even some of the officers and senior NCO's in the trade dont seem to get it.

 

[D-n-A]

KevinB, you'd still be wearing your webbing, but you'd also be wearing the vest with it.

 

[McG]

KevinB, you'd still be wearing your webbing, but you'd also be wearing the vest with it.

Then what good is the vest, that you've recomended, as a replacement for the TacVest or for webbing?

With the old webbing, you could replace the C7 mag pouches with utility pouches for the C9 gunner to carry more boxes.  The TacVest does not give us this option, or a suitable alternative.

There is absolutely no modularity to the new TacVest (being able to alternate the canteen carrier & the utility pouch does not cut it).    It has no convinenet place for the light assault radios.  The C7 mag pouch has become the cool place to carry a pistol, but it is really not functional.  Many guys seem to be moving the bayonet from the front of the vest to the side of the utility pouch.  There is no system to carry M203 ammo (though I've never seen a purpose designed piece for this on the webbing either).

To top it all of, the zipper does not seem to work in the cold.

 

[KevinB]

I think the necessity is to mod the new Gen 3 PDA into a Gen 4 Molle/PALS system like the Paraclete RAV/Eagle FSBE etc.

It would be faily easy to do (just a carrier mod) -- When I get back home next week will post picks of my RAV and how I think the mod shoudl be done (then I'll pester CTS   ;D )


AOD - I tried wearing those grenadier vests - they can be used with a belt but not effeceitly with the webbign straps - it makes it very awkward and I don't find it an realistic alternative

 

[D-n-A]

McG

The grenadier vest is not a replacement for anything, just something that can be worn with the webbing to carry 40mm grenades.

If your wearing the '82 webbing and your a grenadier, if there is no good place to put them in your webbing, you could either wear the vest, or buy a pouch that can hold the grenades, or even a bandolier.

 

[McG]

but our soldiers do not use webbing anymore.

 

[Yeoman]

I'm a C9 gunner
I've had no problems with the TV, I've loved it so far.
I just suck it up, and throw the excess boxes over my shoulder and hump it.
it's a helluva lot better then the webbing for carrying c9 boxes (I was also a c9 gunner in the molitia before I transfered to the regs)
I always hated the webbing, maybe I'd like it if I also had the TV on as well, maybe I'll try that the next exercise I have coming up and see how it is.
as for 203's guys, I'd have to say that the TV doesn't do the job, but I know they'll do something about that eventually in the next 20 years.
Greg

 

[pappy]

When you guys getting these? (Vest, Load Carrying, Patrol, Gen. 4)
Modular design, C7/C9 pouches on front interchange, (i.e. both for C7, both for C9 or one each),additional pouches and loops for 40mm ammo, etc, etc, etc.....
I'm guessing  ;D these are JTF issue for now...

But I agree the current Tactical vest is lacking...

Maybe the Patrol Vest in in your future...

Oh and yeah to the comment about ALICE "looking uncomfortable" it's more then just uncomfortable looking......

 

[pappy]

opps... %$#%@! computers.....

 

[D-n-A]

but our soldiers do not use webbing anymore.

The Reg Force yes, but myself and most of 39 CBG an I'm sure other Reserve brigades still have the '82 webbing.

 

[Britney Spears]

pappy: But if we got those, what would we bitch and complain about all day? The food?

I think the necessity is to mod the new Gen 3 PDA into a Gen 4 Molle/PALS system like the Paraclete RAV/Eagle FSBE etc.

We can't do that, we'll be mistaken for Americans!

I've seen lots of troops from other nations ( US, Dutch, etc) simply attach pouches to their armour, instead of using a separate vest.  It seems to make perfect sense to me, since it would have the added benefit of forcing troops to train with armour at all times so they can get use to it. Sure it will cost a lot, but the payoff  in training realism alone would be worth it. Also, watching Lts and Capts run around with the vests and plates will boost morale.  The bulletproof recce det types can go buy their own vests, which they do right now anyways.

 

[zerhash]

Hey troops, Im just wondering how you people have set up your tac vests or other new CTS equipment to improve them

any interesting mods out there?

i know peacekeeper sells some interesting things

lemme know

Spr. Richmond
CHIMO!

 

[Redeye]

The Reg Force yes, but myself and most of 39 CBG an I'm sure other Reserve brigades still have the '82 webbing.

Most of the Reserves have been converted to the Tactical Vest - my unit is the last in 33 Brigade not to be converted, but that's because of an administrative error that had our allotment sent to North Bay instead of Trenton and onward to us.  I'm supposed to pick mine up Thursday.

The LFQA Reserve Bdes got them first, and Atlantic Area units also were getting them in the spring in small quantities.

I agree with the ongoing discussion - the lack of modularity is very frustrating, as is the foolish decision to keep with only four mags in the vest with no means of altering that allotment in an easy way.  A vest which was MOLLE or by some other means modular would have made a great deal more sense.  Consider, as I just have, that the 82 pattern webbing is MORE modular and more customizable/adaptable - despite its shortcomings it is in some ways superior.

Hopefully they'll rush the Small Pack System to market to make up for the loss of load carriage capacity that has also come with the TV.

 

[Britney Spears]

To get things started:

The torso adjustment buckle system at least in the version I used, was an abomination. The bizzaremetal buckles and thin straps made any kind of on the fly adjustment (e.g., suppose you put on a jacket, or armour)  impossible.

Solution: Simply loop bungie cord in place of the straps. Makes for a snug fit no matter what you wear underneath.

Also, I've never used the 1qt canteen pouch, and I haven't used my issued 1qt canteen for years.

 

[4CDO PARA]

So far, I have removed the canteen pouch and added the 2nd utility pouch, preferring the extra load carriage and replacing the canteen by rigging my camelback to the vest. The camelback is attached by simply threading the shoulder straps through the back loops, therefore making it easy to remove in a hurry and attach it the outer of my jump ruck when rucking up to avoid squeezing and bursting the bladder by wearing it underneath( which just wouldn't be comfortable anyway ). I have added some OD bungee to the back loops also ( worked great for the webbing ) for lashing on rain gear/fleece, whatever with ease of access. I have added my pace beads and a tiny squeeze function red LED to the front, and added on a D-ring and para cord for the rifle and another to quick hook a pair of gloves ( when not in use ). Still looking for a keen way to replace the load carriage of the butt pack though....

 

[Fusaki]

Still looking for a keen way to replace the load carriage of the butt pack though....

The modular pouches on the Small Pack System attach to the daisy chains on the back of the tac vest. I havn't tried it in the field yet, but it looks like a viable option.