Somalia scandal

[bossi]

Beware if you make the conscious decision to burn out your body wearing the Canadian Flag.   The system does not care, and will fight you for compensation every inch of the way. Play the game and you are liable to end up broken, pissed-off, entirely unappreciated, and forgotten.   Such is life.....

Ditto (i.e. "... thanks for volunteering and going to Afghanistan, sorry it took two surgeries to repair your injuries, but we decided to hire a 2Lt instead of you, tough luck that we let your contract lapse so that you lost your dental and medical benefits, what do you mean you're not leaping at the chance to go on Roto 3 while other fat-arsed frauds stay home and shaft you - and by the way, you might as well wipe your arse with your ATHENA PER ..")

 

[bubba]

dva sucks,from my own experiance's,there not there for the members.took me three years of fighting to get a pension.when a went before the board i was made to feel like dirt,i near went ballistic,there poison.that k card is a joke,i got to get a new brace,instead of just gettiong a referal from my doctor,and getting it made.i had to get reasesed,bya speaciolist,now im waiting for permission from dva to get it.i know this is off topic but wtf

 

[Long in the tooth]

Acorn - actually, Scott Taylor is no relation of Peter Worthington whose son in law is actually David Frum, former speech writer for George Bush.  I do agree that Worthington's perspective in 'Scapegoat' is less than objective, but then few journalists pretend to be.

 

[Gunner]

David Frum is married to Danielle Crittenden.

Mr. Frum is the son of Barbara Frum, the late CBC host, and Toronto developer Murray Frum.
He is married to Danielle Crittenden and has two children, aged seven and nine. Source: National Post, January 26, 2001.

Her website doesn't mention anything about Peter Worthington.  She's a looker!

http://www.daniellecrittenden.com/

 

[jfladeroute]

David Frum is married to Danielle Crittenden.
Her website doesn't mention anything about Peter Worthington.  She's a looker!
http://www.daniellecrittenden.com/

I believe that's her pen name. She is Worthington's daughter, as Frum mentions at http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/diary020804.asp.

There was a slight media kerfuffle a while back when personal email from Crittenden to family and friends identified her husband as the author of the "Axis of Evil" speech. http://slate.msn.com/id/2061695/

 

[excoelis]

Jesus wept.............where do I begin???

Let me start by saying I was in Somalia.  Mefloquine?  There was some talk about us taking too high a dose.  Personally I didn't have a problem or see any real problems.  I've taken it since with no reservations.  The alternative is Malaria.  I had two friends from that tour develop malaria after the tour due to their lack of vigilance - and it nearly KILLED THEM!!!

The Airborne was a place that some of the best soldiers in the army fought to get to.  For some reason it also attracted, or was used as a dumping ground for, some of the worst reprobates and degenerates in the army.  Unfortunately, the asocial dynamic in some parts of the unit was perceived as normal martial aggression, or it was ignored by weak leadership.  I remember as a young trooper getting up to mischief - I'm not claiming to be an angel.  I learned pretty quickly that my actions affected more than just me.  So I sorted myself out and learned in short order to GROW THE FUCK UP.  I did not however, have the power or influence to sort out the problem on a larger scale.  Those that did SHIT THE BED.  I'm not saying it was a bad unit with bad leadership.  I'm saying I think it was a great unit with a dose of bad soldiers and weak leaders.  I saw some scumbags get their walking papers before Col K came to clean house, but the major clean up came too late, the damage had been done.

Pensions?  Hmmmm.......

How many people do you know that are collecting questionable pensions?  Like the Sergeant who was on 6B with me and was collecting back, knee, and shoulder pensions but was still physically capable of finishing the course successfully.  He's collecting near a 1000 bucks a month on top of his normal pay.  Didn't seem to have a rather illustrious or challenging career in my opinion.  But then who am I to judge?  I guess my perception is such that the the scrutiny of claims has resulted from the plethora of soldiers bellying up to the trough - legitimate or not.  But that is just my WAG (Wild Ass Guess).

I think I have said this here before - In  my opinion the green machine can only work efficiently if it uses soldiers up and spits them out.  I think we just need to finesse the why, how, and where of the spitting process.   In the meantime the soldiers should resign themselves to the fact that they understood, or damn well should have, the implications of military service.  So don't expect to bask in the limelight of our noble vocation and then have a tantrum when you feel personally slighted.  A lot of the pride we have, and respect we receive, comes as a result of the very nature of its inherent hardships.

 

[Infanteer]

I think I have said this here before - In  my opinion the green machine can only work efficiently if it uses soldiers up and spits them out.  I think we just need to finesse the why, how, and where of the spitting process.  In the meantime the soldiers should resign themselves to the fact that they understood, or damn well should have, the implications of military service.  So don't expect to bask in the limelight of our noble vocation and then have a tantrum when you feel personally slighted.  A lot of the pride we have, and respect we receive, comes as a result of the very nature of its inherent hardships.

Good point excoelis.  I remember getting into an argument with another troop over training intensity.  He was stating that having a jump capability was no good, because when he was with 3 VP, he couldn't believe all the ex-airborne types with injury claims.  I told him that the army's prime focus is to produce units with fighting power, and that their is a certain amount of risk associated in doing this - to your equipment and to your soldiers.  This focus should not be degraded in the effort to ensure all soldiers can play a decent squash game after 20 years of service.

I guess that under the dictum "train as you fight", unlimited liability applies to training. (ie: Soldier jump out of that plane at a low altitude with a lot of weight on your back....)

 

[Acorn]

My mistake on Worthington, I knew he was related to someone that annoys me (actually two: both Barbara and David Frum can get up my nose on occasion).
-----------------------------
I think the point above that the finance (RMS) types should tell us more about our entitlements ignores one thing: the huge number of individual differences and possibilities. You are your own clerk, often as not. As an example, I have been a beneficiary of LTA for most of my career, either by being single with my parents as NOK, or being posted away from my wife. As a result I usually know more about LTA and how it works than the average RMS clerk, and I'd never let one tell me what I am or am not entitled to without a clear explanation.

Acorn

 

[bubba]

nice post excoelis,i agree with most of what you said,the green machine is a hard ticket.when we joined were't we told that if they broke us they would fix us.they just can't turn you loose,but that's what they try to do,it's the only govornment employer who tries to do it in mass.how many guys ya hear say,they lost my med docs.when i got out nobody told me about dva,clerks just asked where   i want my paperwork sent.i'm not trying to be a arsehole,but the troops should know there is help out there if there hurt.no dought there's guys that are scamin the system.the airborne in my opinion had some of the best,without a dought,had alot of buddies there.remember unguard 90 ran inyo some of the assholes in sassy's parking lot,4 to 1 in there favor.thougt i was dead.some of the guys who never forgot where they came from got me out of there.

 

[excoelis]

Yeah, I realise I might have sounded a little harsh in my last post.  Don't get me wrong, I believe if you are broken in the loyal and unwaivering service of your country, then said country should be obligated to compensate, retrain, and maintain a certain standard of living for you and yours.

What drives me absolutely fucking nuts is the trend in this army towards the ME and the I.  I'm sick to death of people who think they can dictate their own terms of reference and think that operational tours, deployments, courses, and field time are an INCONVENIENCE!!!  These same individuals are probably the first ones at the bank on pay day with no remorse towards how they earned it - or not.  I am also sick of malingerers who make it harder for legitimately injured soldiers who are worn out and broken from hard years of driving the body.  My three sect comdrs from Roto 0 in Afghanistan are all broken to some extent.  Each one of them has been a paratrooper for 12 to 15 years with prior Infantry service before that.  Knee surgery for one, degenerative disc disease in the neck for another, and lastly crushed discs in the back requiring surgery.  Do you honestly think that I would entrust my life to those boys and vice versa without having some lasting loyalty?  I will say though that I draw a hard line when it comes to slowing down the machine because one of the gears blew a tooth.  I fully expect the same treatment when the inevitable happens to me.  I certainly don't plan on sitting around wallowing in my own self-pity.

So let's get down to the business of exposing and expelling those that harbour ulterior motive, poor work ethic, malingering tendency, pre-service injuries, and a self-centered attitude.  So that those that have earned the benefits, can receive them.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Jesus wept.............where do I begin???

But then who am I to judge?  I guess my perception is such that the the scrutiny of claims has resulted from the plethora of soldiers bellying up to the trough - legitimate or not.  But that is just my WAG (Wild *** Guess).

I think I have said this here before - In  my opinion the green machine can only work efficiently if it uses soldiers up and spits them out.  I think we just need to finesse the why, how, and where of the spitting process.   In the meantime the soldiers should resign themselves to the fact that they understood, or darn well should have, the implications of military service.  So don't expect to bask in the limelight of our noble vocation and then have a tantrum when you feel personally slighted.  A lot of the pride we have, and respect we receive, comes as a result of the very nature of its inherent hardships.

WTF excoelis? You're right, don't judge what you don't know. Are trying to tell us that it didn't even enter your mind when you joined up that if you were injured, the mob would take care of you based on your status as a person, and perhaps keep you on if you are still capable of making a useful contribution to the service? Because I know I did, and BTW that is exactly what happened. If and when the green machine  spits out the injured, they had better not be discarding them like some worthless and damaged piece of equipment. If it didn't, would you consider it a career of choice, given the many [safer] options available out there for young women and men [and those in between!!]?  

In many cases, a permanent injury leads to a long life of misery and discrimination on civvie street, despite ruminations to the contrary on this site. If a serving member takes an injury, they should be dealt with fairly, with honour and respect by everybody, especially their squad or department mates. If they are malingering, that's a different story, and I'd agree with you then. Perhaps [I hope] that's what you mean by "finesse."

Cheers...

 

[Cloud Cover]

Yeah, I realise I might have sounded a little harsh in my last post.   Don't get me wrong, I believe if you are broken in the loyal and unwaivering service of your country, then said country should be obligated to compensate, retrain, and maintain a certain standard of living for you and yours.

excoelis: My apologies, you posted while i was typing. :-[

 

[pbi]

Ex coelis: Great points.

Your comments on the problems in the CAR echo my own external observations over the years, but as a non-member of that unit, I was extremely reluctant to post them here in too much detail, because it remains such a sensitive issue for so many people. Suffice it to say, you have identified the core of the problem. This problem was well known for years (I first heard about it as Assistant Adjutant of 1 PPCLI when the CO of the day announced at an O Gp that the PPCLI battalions were being asked to stop sending their "problem children" to 3 Cdo.) MGen (Retd) Holmes (an officer I have the highest respect for...) mentioned it during his testimony at the Somalia Inquiry. I a;lso had a CSM who came to me directly from the Cdo, who filled me in on some of the problems. As you have also correctly identified, there were some excellent soldiers in 3 Cdo and they did not deserve to be tarnished with the same brush as the sickies and criminals. IIRC,Colonel Kenward was well into the "reform" process (as only he could be...) when the axe fell, and thus the only lasting image in the public mind was that the whole CAR were criminals.

On the pension issue, I am not sure that our anger is properly directed at the military chain of command: most people I have ever encountered who were in a position to do so, normally have done all they can to give a soldier the benefit of the doubt and not really interested in "doing" a soldier out of a pension. IMHO the actual problem arises in the civil bureaucracy, outside DND, where the real decisions are made. However, the penetration of the "blame/entitlement" or "victim" mentality into the military has led to some terrible fraud attempts being perpetrated: I know of at least one in our Bde which was, thankfully, brought to an honest conclusion despite the best efforts of the individual to defraud the system in a very cynical way. Unfortunately, much as with our PTSD situation, a few of these cases screw it for those who have legitimate problems.

Cheers.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

despite the best efforts of the individual to defraud the system in a very cynical way. Unfortunately, much as with our PTSD situation, a few of these cases screw it for those who have legitimate problems

Well for what its worth, the military isn't the only place that happens. Some of our "accommodations" would blow your socks off......

 

[Long in the tooth]

How many people do you know that are collecting questionable pensions?   Like the Sergeant who was on 6B with me and was collecting back, knee, and shoulder pensions but was still physically capable of finishing the course successfully.   He's collecting near a 1000 bucks a month on top of his normal pay.   Didn't seem to have a rather illustrious or challenging career in my opinion.

Incredible!   How could this soldier be deployable when he's obviously used up seven or eight lives?   In dollar figures my injury was much less severe, and yet I had to leave the Infantry as even a further minor accident could be severely damaging.

I appreciate how the combat arms can grind down a body; unfortunately the DVA need 'atriattributablity' to determine what amount the military played in an injury.   I was lucky when I was hurt as it was clearly 5/5 attributable to the military, and when they opened me up all previous wear and tear was documented.   However I get far less than $1000 per month and definatdefinitelyrecommend doing what happened to me.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

With regards to being discharged I would add the following.
I worked with a guy who had an injury that prevented him from doing organized PT yet he could still past the universality of service.  Had he being a poste and got injured he would have been fine as they don't do pt (normally) and would have sailed under the radar.  Hell he was more fit (cardio wise) then a lot of guys in BN and more so then most in the airforce which was just up the road.
I also worked with a WO who was on perm cat. but seems to have benn protected as he no longer has any restricitions and was put on his 7's (promotional crse).  So in some cases its who you know.

 

[Wookilar]

Was just on CBC Newsworld that the charges against Matchee have been dropped by the CF. Looking for "print" comfirmation.

Wook

 

[Haggis]

Found it here.

 

[MCpl. Burwell]

Was just on CBC Newsworld that the charges against Matchee have been dropped by the CF. Looking for "print" comfirmation.

It is also on CTV.

Master Cpl. Clayton Matchee had been charged with the crimes after Shidane Abukar Arone was killed in March 1993 while Canadian troops were stationed in Somalia.

"The decision to withdraw the charges in this case was based on public interest considerations," Lt.-Col. Bruce MacGregor, deputy director of military prosecutions, said in a release.

"These included the fact that Mr. Matchee has a permanent brain injury and will never be fit to stand trial."

MacGregor added that Matchee, who has had extended stays in hospital since the incident, "does not a pose a significant threat to the community."

In April 1994, a court martial ruled that Matchee was not fit to stand trial on the charges because of a mental disorder.

Matchee was transferred to a hospital in North Battleford, Sask. not long after the decision.

Arone's death on March 16, 1993, sent shockwaves through the Canadian military and underscored accusations of ingrained violence and racism among Canadian soldiers.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up The John's!

 

[Wookilar]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/09/15/matchee-charges.html

Seems to follow a recent decision by the Sasketchewan Review Board in Feb. Interesting to note that the pic used in the article is not the one the CBC (or any other msm outlet) usually uses with Clayton Matchee's name attached to it......

A chapter finally closed? I hope that this does not get dragged into the election...

Wook