Somalia scandal

[Cloud Cover]

They'll probably ask that clown who put down the subs for his input.   Bald guy with glasses.

Well, he can slam the forces all he wants, that's his right, we all know what he stands for and DND had better be preapred for it this time. But, if he starts slagging individuals by name, he better be prepared to prove his statements, or he is defintely going to get a statement of claim shoved down his throat. Too many good people have dedicated the better part of their careers turning the forces around from the whole sad story, and I sincerely hope that they do not sit back and take it on the chin this time. [you know who I am talking about.]

Cheers ...

 

[hugh19]

Just to be nitpicky HMCS Rainbow was a west coast submarine in the 60's and 70's

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Kyle Brown this, Kyle Brown that.  CAR=bunch of thugs etc etc etc.

 

[Hoplite]

I don't imagine that this is going to bring an outcry from the public.  In fact this topic has already hit the papers on a number of occasions this year.

The proceedings (which have to happen every two years) was to determine whether they could go ahead with charges.  They found that there was sufficient evidence to go forward with the trial, which doesn't address the relevant question anyways...That being if the accused has the mental capacity to face the charge.

This article may clarify further....

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/09/21/638202-cp.html

Hopefully the law will be changed so that we can put his behind us once and for all.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well that article says that the proceedings of a court martial aren't going to happen.  Just that there is enough evidence to prosecute him if he was found mentally fit, which doctors have said will never happen.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I can't find were you got this from:  DECISION: On 21 Sep 04, the Court found sufficient evidence had been established to put the accused person on trial for these charges.

 

[painswessex]

I got that info from the same place i got the court martial info from. It is under the results tab.

 

[Storm]

Just to be nitpicky HMCS Rainbow was a west coast submarine in the 60's and 70's

Explains everything    

 

[bossi]

There was an HMCS RAINBOW, I think.

I'm surprised one of our swabbies didn't pick up on this ...
Ironically (very ironically, in the aftermath of our purchasing the used Upholder class subs ...)

HMCS Rainbow and Niobe were the first two ships in the RCN
http://www.readyayeready.com/timeline/1910s/rainbow.htm
(and apparently during WWI was the only ship patrolling the ENTIRE West Coast ... !)

Funny how history repeats itself, eh ... ?

As for the real topic of this thread, I saw coverage of the Matchee situation on Canadian TV
(and, yes - the bias of the reporting was the insinuation that he wasn't fit for trial - however, that's for the legal system to decide, barrack room lawyers excluded).

 

[KevinB]

Oh damn - when I read the tile I thought we had done something in Samoa  ???


Somalia - I see now  ;D

 

[armyrules]

I read the book "Scapegoat" by Peter Worthington and Kyle Brown I thought it was a great book and I wonder if Matchee wil be well enough to stand trial?

 

[KevinB]

Scapegoat should have been called "WHINER"

Some much for taking responsibility for ones actions...

 

[dutchie]

I can't decide if I want this trial to go forward so that Matchee can be held accountable, or if I would prefer to let sleeping dogs lie, and not open up something that created such a negative image of the CF and it's soldiers.

 

[gun plumber]

Agreed.This should have been done quitely and swiftly in order not to bring negitive press to a system that has worked non-stop to shed the negitive views that were placed apon it.I'm not talking about doing it in the dark,that would only get all the press talking about cover-ups etc,but have it handled the same way that it is when we do something good........small artical on page 123 bottom right

 

[Cloud Cover]

This should have been done quietly and swiftly in order not to bring negitive press to a system that has worked non-stop to shed the negitive views that were placed apon it.I'm not talking about doing it in the dark,that would only get all the press talking about cover-ups etc,but have it handled the same way that it is when we do something good........small artical on page 123 bottom right

Not going to happen, as stated earlier there is too much money to be made and political capital to be gained by exploiting this situation, unless of  course Matchee's lawyer is successful in having the trial conducted in camera, a most unlikely event indeed.  Perhaps, if Matchee pleads guilty, there might not be as much sensationalism attached to the trial, but the real danger in this lies with academics involved in the study of racism in armed conflict continuing to use the CAR as a text book example to promote their own agendas. Don't misunderstand me, this is a laudable topic worthy of serious academic study, however the use of such research to further other less well intentioned agenda's is the problem.

 

[buckahed]

Thanks for the welcome to the board, Whiskey 601. Slightly off topic, are the Rules of Engagment for Somalia or the UN missions available? There was a lot of talk about them, but I have never actually seen them.

 

[Acorn]

You won't see much publically about ROE, past or present, as it is an OPSEC issue.

Acorn

 

[pbi]

Thanks for the welcome to the board, Whiskey 601. Slightly off topic, are the Rules of Engagment for Somalia or the UN missions available? There was a lot of talk about them, but I have never actually seen them.

ROEs, as robust as they may be, don't extend to torture and murder, nor are restrictive ROEs legitmate excuses for same. Cheers.

 

[KevinB]

IIRC the Somalia ROE's were published during the inquiry.

In a nutshell they could use Deadly Force to accomplish the mission - but like PBI said - ROE's NEVER, not ever, allow for torture or murder of a prisoner.

 

[Morpheus32]

IIRC the Somalia ROE's were published during the inquiry.

In a nutshell they could use Deadly Force to accomplish the mission - but like PBI said - ROE's NEVER, not ever, allow for torture or murder of a prisoner.

Kevin is correct on all counts.  The ROE's were rather robust in comparison to some operations in the past to that point, but torture and murder are never ever allowed.  They are governed under the rules of armed conflict, Geneva Convention, and Military Regulations. 

Jeff